The manipulation of the oil price by buying futures that magnify speculation by 16 times,cries of Peak Oil and extrapolation by interested groups such as Goldman Sachs that oil will be soon $200 a barrel,shows that in the US the financial market is out of control.According to Engdahl,the financial system has found another way to recoup losses of the sub-prime mortage debacle.The tail is wagging the dog.

People all around the planet are suffering on the basis of pure speculation and unbridled greed.

If this dangerous scenario is allowed to continue,then the world could be tipped into a deep recession.When the markets produce recessions,those with capital again buy bargains at the expense of victims.You have to wonder if recessions are diliberately initiated to lower wages and keep the preditors happy.Just look at the behaviour of our Reserve Bank.

The Bush administration is good at sacrificing their soldiers in Iraq,yet do not have the backbone to stand up to their own financial system.

ARJAY... point well taken and noted....

SOLUTION.. there is one...called 'legislation' about profiteering over crucial resources.

If one government won't do it.. then lets ELECT ONE WHICH WILL.

Arjay, the way you are going, you are going to die of worry :(.

Short term, you can switch to gas, 60c or so a litre, the Govt pays
2000$ of the 3000$ conversion cost. If you live in WA, the State Govt
will kick in the other 1000$, you can essentially get it done for
free.

Long term, a high oil price now is good news, for it finally forces
people to address that oil is not unlimited. Money is being invested
to find an alternative, for its the West who have been idiots,
becoming addicated to oil.

We have to start dealing with these problems now, not when there
are signs up at the pump, saying "no supply available, sorry"

So why oil prices are a bit higher then they might be, frankly I
really don't care. The big picture matters, ie solutions to energy
questions, not the little picture, my back pocket next week.

Just North of you, a whole new energy source, coal seam gas, is just
being discovered and developed. There could be more gas there, then
the Gorgon gasfield in the NW shelf holds, enough gas to drive every
car on the East Coast. You should be thrilled that higher energy
prices are bringing these discoveries to the surface! For it will
mean that in your lifetime and in your kids lifetime, you will all
have wheels.

Arjay “The manipulation of the oil price by buying futures that magnify speculation by 16 times,”

Somehow, such speculation would produce its own downfall. No different to the sub-prime scandal.

Whilst speculation on future prices works for the benefit of the producer as much as the speculator (its called price hedging and is popular among many commodity producers), I find the level of speculation, as a 16 times price multiplier on the legitimate aspirations of OPEC somewhat fanciful to say the least.

I must admit to doing as Yabby suggested, I recently bought another car and had it immediately converted to LPG, all on the government.

Filling up at 60 cents a litre is wonderful.

Col Rouge and Yabby.All is well for those who feed off the share market and sit back in their comfortable lifestyles with little stress.Who feeds the share market?It is the low wages of those in poor countries and not necessarily the good management practises of the corporates that make it possible.

I like many Aussies are doing it tough and do not at this stage have easy options.So do give your altrustic clap trap of how easy it is to find alternatives.

It is not just the price of fuel in NSW,the price of everything is outstipping our incomes.Fuel affects everthing from the farm gate to the consumer,and if you two don't appreciate how tough it is for ordinary folk,then perhaps it is time you both experienced real poverty.I find it incredible that both of you are so detached from the realities beneath your noses.

Arjay “It is the low wages of those in poor countries and not necessarily the good management practises of the corporates that make it possible”

I suggest you justify it with examples.

As for “All is well for those who feed off the share market and sit back in their comfortable lifestyles with little stress.”

I like you, work hard for what I earn. I do not have a huge share portfolio which pads the pillow between me and mean street.

“So do give your altrustic clap trap of how easy it is to find alternatives.”

I have observed the opportunity, at least under the previous liberal government (not sure about the current pack of pricks to how much longer it will last) for those who wished to reduce their fuel bills to acquire LPG fuelled vehicles.

Btw the vehicle I bought was second hand and incredibly cheap.

“the price of everything is outstipping our incomes.”
Blame that on the largesse and incompetence of the labor states and now federal governments.

“if you two don't appreciate how tough it is for ordinary folk,then perhaps it is time you both experienced real poverty.”

I have said it before, I am the son of a railway worker father and a non-working mother. My childhood was materially very limited, although not the love my parents showed me, my brother and sisters.
The reason I do it less tough these days is because I stopped pretending that government would ever do anything for me a few decades ago.

Knowing how politicians operate, what sort of gullible twat is it who expects them to do anything for anyone?

I opt for self-reliance, I can rely on that.

Certainly a better option than putting faith in any support from government.

“I find it incredible that both of you are so detached from the realities beneath your noses.”

Maybe that is because I made the reality beneath my nose.

I did not wait for government to make it or cock it up for me

Col,why don't you argue about the topic at hand, ie the market manipulation of fuel prices.I have very little faith in Govt like yourself,but the capitalist's system is far from perfect.Wild speculation that manipulates the prices of basic survival commodities like fuel and food need regulating.

I see the modern societies being no different from feudal systems of the past.Multi-nationals have replaced the Kings and the share market feeds the new aristicrocy.The poor cannot save,thus cannot buy the very shares which they have helped to create.People should paid enough to consume the goods which they produce and there in lies the rub.Corporates want the lowest costs to shore up their bottom lines.Govts are inefficient and wasteful.Ordinary folk get screwed by both.

While I agree with a market based economy,it needs to be regulated by rules like we have in sport.The rules we have for labour in Aust do apply in China or India.Where is the level playing field?

You cannot have simplistic visions of laisse-faire free market dominance without incurring serious economic/social inequity.

*I opt for self-reliance, I can rely on that.
Certainly a better option than putting faith in any support from government.*

Col, I completely agree with you on that one. In my experience
its actually real adversity in life, which teaches you how to
cope with and deal with it. Blaming the world won't change anything.
At some point you realise that its up to yourself to make things
happen for you, nobody else.

Some years ago, we had a large traumatic fire in this area, which
burned 60'000 acres. Those who had had relatively tough lives, knew
how to deal with it and get over it. Those who had relatively cushy
lives, howled the loudest and had the biggest difficulties. They
had never known hard times.

*“I find it incredible that both of you are so detached from the realities beneath your noses.”*

The realities beneath my nose are that most get it far easier then
I had it. They will have to learn what I had to learn, ie. that
it was up to me to pick myself up from the chaos and find solutions,
as nobody would do it for me. I did and despite it not being
easy, it sure was character building and worth the effort.

Arjay “Col,why don't you argue about the topic at hand,”

Because I challenged the off-topic assertion which you addressed to Yabby and myself.

If you want me to stay on topic, I suggest you stay on topic and do not side track it with extraneous references.

“capitalist's system is far from perfect”

Just a lot less imperfect than all the other alternatives, including the charade of mediocrity known as socialism.

“Wild speculation that manipulates the prices of basic survival commodities like fuel and food need regulating.”

Describe “regulating” what exactly you think you mean.

“Multi-nationals have replaced the Kings and the share market feeds the new aristicrocy.”

And I understood that the shares in multinationals can all be tracked back to many different people or to superfunds representing the invested resources of millions of people.

Somehow that makes a king, sharing his throne with millions of other sound ridiculous and the aristocracy as common as muck.

“it needs to be regulated by rules like we have in sport.”

Corporate law goes back for well over a century and a half (Joint Stock Companies Act 1844), it is regularly updated and apparently the UK 2006 Companies act is reckoned as the biggest lump of legislation ever undertaken.

To say nothing of trades practices legislation and anti-trust legislation.

Lots and lots of ongoing regulation.

“The rules we have for labour in Aust do apply in China or India.Where is the level playing field?”

Wrong, the rules do not apply in India or China. It is an uneven playing field. Complain to the Indian or Chinese governments, they will laugh in your face. They are not accountable to Australian legislature any more than we are subject to theirs.

“You cannot have simplistic visions of laisse-faire free market dominance without incurring serious economic/social inequity.”

It is the simplistic lassie-faire economics which evens out the inequity. The poor find markets and productive employment, wage rates improve and the overpaid suffer from loss demand.

You can have either equitability or equality but you will never achieve both.

Ask Glenn Stevens. He's the man.

I'm sure he'd know if our interst rate policy is being driven by a Wall St hoax.

Frank Blunt

PS If Stevens doesn't reply, call Wayne Swan on (02) 6277 7340.

Col

I finally see the light.

It is acceptable for the high-income aspirational to suck off the public teat, vis-a-vis your statement: "I recently bought another car and had it immediately converted to LPG, all on the government."

But, Arjay, if you're low-income aspirational - stop yer whining, peasant.

Fractelle “finally see the light.”

An a Damascan moment, how wonderful

And I facilitated such illumination, it makes me feel almost saintly, maybe you will suggest I be beatified.

“It is acceptable for the high-income aspirational to suck off the public teat, vis-a-vis your statement: "I recently bought another car and had it immediately converted to LPG, all on the government."”

Well you see, how I spend my discretionary income is entirely at my own discretion and since the government, in its wisdom allowed me to qualify for a $2,000 rebate on having the car fitted for LPG, it would be anti-environmental of me not to exercise my rights and support the community goal of reducing our dependency on oil.

So lets put it this way Fractelle, I am doing my bit for the country and your enlightenment is merely a fringe benefit.

But the best thing is, it now costs me only $40 week to go from home to clients, instead of $100+, of course that is the pre-tax values, not quite so good when I convert the saving into a post tax benefit.

Like to hear about my recent Pacific Island Cruise?

Had a wonderful dinner this evening, old friend I had not seen in about 8 months, he has been traveling some, of course, he needs to find some work but he has skills, as he said, he could live off his share portfolio but he just likes to keep busy too, he is another ex-UK conservative voter, like me.

It seems the happy people I know are the ones who make their own way in the world, instead of just envying the well earned reward generated by others.

As for Arjay, I have always presumed Arjay to be someone similar to myself, happier making his own way rather than watching others, mind you the incompetence and crass performance of these labor state governments is enough to destroy any ones faith in our economic processes.

Have you noticed how the socialists are always first to get their post-parliamentary snouts in the public trough

Col

Do you think you could get your snout out of the LPG conversion trough long enough to answer the following question?

Where is the Bentley? Is it off the road having its Lipstick Fridge overhauled?

For those unaware of life's little necessities, please check link below:

http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleDetail.aspx?ArticleID=37218&vf=1&GalleryType=2&ImageID=1

Col loves his lippy cold.

*Where is the Bentley? Is it off the road having its Lipstick Fridge overhauled?*

Ah Fractelle, I honestly don't know too many guys who wear lippie,
but certainly plenty of women! So its a girl thing that you are
complaining about, not a guy thing, AFAIK. Perhaps some guys
just put up with demands like lippie fridges, for those demanding
women who complain too much and won't provide a bit of nooky without
one :)

Fractelle "Where is the Bentley? "

where it has always been.

As for Bentley accessories, I want the one which picks up leftie green swill humpers on radar and side swipes them regardless of how fast they try and get out the way.

I am sure I must have a hub cap with your name on it.

That aside, has anyone noticed how obsessed the wannabes are about how those who have done something with their lives get to spend their well earned rewards.

I guess fractelle, tree hugging just don't pay. Never mind, you will get your reward in heaven, oh but you are probably atheist as well, in which case, bummer.

Actually Yabby, fractelle is so dense she would probably stick her own lips in it and get stuck there...

What sort of insane banter is this Col?It sounds like ego has surpassed logic and reality.

I see the foibles of both Govt and private enterprise.You have too much faith in greed.Greed is directly proportional to our own insecurities,and thus human kind is destined to repeat it's failures.
Nothing personal Col,but that is the pathetic nature of our being.
You take things too personally.

Arjay “What sort of insane banter is this Col?It sounds like ego has surpassed logic and reality.”

Never took you for a wowser but you seem to be going that way.

I suggest eat more prunes, they are good for cleaning you through,.

“You have too much faith in greed.”

That is your opinion and you are entitled to hold it as such.

I am entitled to disagree with you and suggest that no communal advance has ever been achieved by government, except possibly overcoming adversaries in War and in that context, the left wing woosies and limp wristed, sunset hued deviates would rather have had a chat with a gun stuck up their left nostril than actually deal with the problem.

“Greed is directly proportional to our own insecurities,and thus human kind is destined to repeat it's failures.”

Read Maslow

“You take things too personally.”

Maybe I do.

But it is better to be in touch, involved and prepared to defend ones values than abandon them with the expediency of some here today, gone tomorrow politician (the names Blair and Krudd spring to mind).

Now, if you have finished telling me my supposed failings, would you like to return to the topic of the thread or would you like me to observe on your weakness for judging those you have never met and would not recognize if they were to knock on your front door and stamp on your face?