The big oil companies and old hidden technolgy

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As oil reserves fade bit by bit and oil becomes more expensive I was just thinking about all of those old stories I heard as a kid involving wonderful steam engines that guys had built in back sheds in different parts of the world to fit into automobile chassis that not long afterwards disappeared from sight, the inference being that the oil companies got to the inventors and bought up the patents to protect their oil revenues.
I also remember talk of "perpetual motion" devices that might run vehicles; and of cars that ran on water.
I wonder if we will see any of this long hidden technology suddenly appear to replace the gas guzzler as oil slowly vanishes and we have to adapt to other technology...or was it all just myth?
Is there any recall on such vehicles or devices?
Seems to me that a future with electric cars cant be all thats on offer.

Posted by Gibo, Tuesday, 27 May 2008 9:13:58 PM

Hello Gibo,
Yes stories or perhaps fairy tales are a better fit.
It comes down to energy. If some readily available substance has the
energy within its molecules, science would have long known about it.

Engines running on water are the classic furfy that I have read about
since I learnt to read.

We all know that you have split the water into hydrogen and oxygen for
that to work but it requires more energy to split water than you get back out.
So whats the point of it ?
My guess every one of the fairy tales come down to the same EROEI or
Energy Returned in Energy Invested.
Its just the same with many of the bio fuels we hear so much about
today. Hydrogen is also still in the same boat.

Posted by Bazz, Wednesday, 28 May 2008 1:49:25 PM

Very well said Bazz. You've obviously got a handle on the situation.

Posted by Aime, Wednesday, 28 May 2008 2:00:48 PM

A bloke I knew in fact was related to by marriage once traveled this country.
He was one of many he would fill his cars tank with sea water and drive away.
He had bullet holes in his car and caravan, he put them there to enhance his story's about big oil.
I never once knew him to tell the truth about anything.
He died poor but his lies still send some to dream of cheap fuel and a life of Rich's.
Gibo as you are aware some tend to believe strange things for strange reasons

Posted by Belly, Wednesday, 28 May 2008 9:09:24 PM

Posted by one under god, Thursday, 29 May 2008 8:08:10 AM

Thanks folks so far.
I also read somewhere years ago that Nikolai Tesla had invented some kind of apparatus to take electricity from the air that would offer unlimited electrical power to households, making electricity an almost free commondity? It might have been one of Stan Deyos comments or on one of his videos (see "The Cosmic Conspiracy).

Posted by Gibo, Thursday, 29 May 2008 11:00:13 AM

oil exists still, yes it will run out and yes it will cost much more even than it does now but we are not yet out of it.
If another fuel existed right now it would need to be introduced slowly.
The Dutch royal family is not the only big owner of our fuel.
a true real breakdown of the world economy would take place, just maybe speculation in oil using it to make money is driving the problem.
But any one who is unaware western governments including ours past and present are profiting from a huge tax impost are not on track in the oil debate.
Those same governments are uninterested in developing new fuels yet.
Paying lip service to a problem LPG could fix for a time in this country at least.
removing the tax is no answer we the whole country are hooked on the things the tax pays for.

Posted by Belly, Friday, 30 May 2008 6:35:39 AM

DURING THE WORLD WAR TWO, I was a 7 to 12 year old kid.We had a Buick 8 cylinder that we ran on power kerosene.We had a small tank under the bonnet for petrol and switched it off when the engine was hot enough.The oil was thinned by the power kero. but we put it in the fuel tank too!Other cars were converted to coke and wood burning systems.So there are different methods if petrol's too dear.But at $2.00 a litre it is cheaper that soft-drink!Even bottled water sells for more!I am quite happy to have a more efficient small car and catch PUBLIC TRANSPORT-not all the time, but when it's convenient.Train travel beats all in the city, you can read or use your mobile instead of inching along in traffic.When are we going to see POlITICIANS getting the train to work, and showing a good example? They could converse with the people that elected them and learn about the real world.

Posted by DIPLOMAN, Monday, 2 June 2008 2:09:34 PM

Good story Diploman. Necessity is the mother of invention in wartime. Your right about politicians. The modern age now has so much technology for them to communicate with, they dont need to see the people much. In the end they become trapped forever in their crystal palaces stuck with the horrible possibilies of 5 star food and of cut price/taxpayer subsidised alcohol in the upstairs bar.
Like to see that LPG used more Belly. Im sure some guy with a bit of brains could also make a pocket size steam engine that could fit under a bonnet...Im sure Ive heard of them.

Posted by Gibo, Monday, 2 June 2008 8:21:16 PM

Diploman yes both true in fact the person I refereed to earlier made charcoal burners for cars in ww2.
LPG can save us for a while but will governments let it?
Yes the subsidy's stays but the waiting to re fit is 4 months.
How long to put a brand new small car on the road that is LPG only?
We must stop thinking public transport is the answer it can at best only be part of it.
We do our self no good refusing to understand how big this country is and how little worth while public transport we have.
Some travel 20 klm just to get to the farm gate and well over 100 to town, they need cheaper fuel too.
We can do better but will oil money let us?

Posted by Belly, Wednesday, 4 June 2008 6:19:06 AM

I think CNG (compressed natural gas) would be more viable than LPG in the long run. We could quite easily adapt our engines, it's been done before. New Zealand had CNG bowsers for quite some time.

You'd sacrifice, perhaps 20 per cent of your engine's power, but in return you'd be using a natural resource which New Zealand and Australia have in abundance and sell off at extremely low prices overseas.

LPG is a refined material, though CNG is closer to the original resource and thus requires less processing and is available in far greater quantities.

This isn't new technology. About 18 years ago, my family had a CNG car in NZ and it ran fine. I'm somewhat mystified as to why we're not putting a similar system in place now. It's enough to make one wonder what commercial factors are at play here that prevent such a logical step.

Posted by TurnRightThenLeft, Wednesday, 4 June 2008 10:16:24 AM

I heard on the ABC today that in America, FORD has a car it expects to be on the market in two years, that uses a small petrol engine to run and charge the batteries that run the car which is ELECTRICALLY DRIVEN.So I guess it's the concept, that battery charging takes less energy than the torque required to drive the car.Electric wheelchairs can do about 20 klms before batteries need charging, at a speed of 8kph. I think unfortunately "Energy out equals Energy in" whatever we come up with.Solar is free because it's the sun supplying the power. But the technology to convert THE SUN'S ENERGY is the costly part.More research in that area is important.

Posted by DIPLOMAN, Wednesday, 4 June 2008 11:24:43 AM

Diploman;
There are a number of electric cars in the works.
Nisson/Renault, Toyota, GM and now Ford.

The idea of a small petrol motor is to extend range by starting it
when the battery charge falls and the continuous running motor
operating at its best efficiency will charge the battery and get ahead
of the discharge rate in stop start traffic, but on a long trip may
require you to drive at a slower speed.
So you have those rest stops they are always
recomending and the engine charges it up if you can't find a power point
to plug into.

Belly is right, public transport cannot take up the load.
In Sydney it will be impossible to get enough passenger trains through
Hornsby because of the very much increased freight traffic that will
occur as the truckies go broke.

It appears that 75% of commuters travel by car.
I can't see a three times increase in trains & busses.

Posted by Bazz, Wednesday, 4 June 2008 1:12:01 PM

The Ford electric car story however is worth looking at.
They killed the EV1 a car we could have been driving now but the more petrol rises the closer we are to new fuels.
Ten years from now oil may be much cheaper , while we will run out one day its not yet.
World wide we are headed for real use of other fuels and oil prices has helped get us started in new directions.

Posted by Belly, Thursday, 5 June 2008 6:15:11 AM

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