Ludwig: << Many people on OLO share my concerns >>

Certainly no argument from me on this one, but I suspect we're in the minority, even here at OLO. Most people are terminally addicted to consumerism - indeed, the whole system depends on it.

CJ Morgan wrote:

"Certainly no argument from me on this one, but I suspect we're in the minority, even here at OLO. Most people are terminally addicted to consumerism - indeed, the whole system depends on it."

I don't know that most people are terminally addicted to consumerism. I think we are trapped by it.

We try to make a small imprint. We use appliances, but they are built with planned obsolescence. That is not our choice. We would rather not buy new ones, but they have a limited life. We have a car. I would rather do without one, but there is no mass transit facilities where we live. We try to limit our trips so each trip takes care of several purposes. We have a solar heater for hot water. We throw out no garbage scraps but use it for compost. We have no air conditioning or central heating. If it gets cold we rug up. If it gets hot we use a fan. Our solar drier is a clothesline. We cook from scratch rather than buy precooked items. Our amusements are primarily books, writing and handicrafts. We do not smoke and drink sparingly. We do not gamble. We take an interest in nature. It is a pleasant lifestyle which I imagine many people share.

The ultimate consumerism is that spent for weapons systems which takes a large amount of funds but produces very little that is of use. There are few attempts to curb this. There will not be as our economy depends on it to an extent. That consumerism is rarely questioned. Another part of our economy is the financial sector which transfers funds, employs brokers, lawyers, accountants etc. and produces nothing tangible at all. Socialism with top down control is no solution since the tremendous bureaucracy required in a planned economy is also non-productive of goods and services.

Is there a solution? It certainly does not seems to me to be dependent on the addiction of individuals. We are not free to opt out of the wasteful system in which we live.

“Growth” in economic terms, is a measurement “device” used by economists to determine a few things which they think are important to their understanding of the model of humanity which they cleave to.

They say accountants do a similar thing, so too actuaries and many other numbers based sciences and arts.

So what is ‘growth’, in economic terms as it applies to peoples lives?

Well I think it is an approximation of the aggregate price of individual transactions which occur in a particular time period, relative to the price of transactions in a comparative time period.

I used the word “price” deliberately, to distinguish from “value”.

The aggregate “value” of individual transactions which occur in a particular time period might not vary however, “inflationary influences” alter the price.

Ludwig I think alot of the so called “Growth” which concerns you, is really “informal inflation”, which exists beyond the far from perfect ‘cost basket’ measure of official inflation.

The next point is, we are talking economics, which is often too far removed from real life that we lock economist in rooms with other economists and let them argue various theories whilst real folk get on with what really matters in their lives.

So I guess if you cannot see it, eat it, sit on it or benefit from it, in any way, growth ain’t going to matter much to you. Personally, I focus on doing things in my life from which I can directly measure the benefit (or otherwise) to me and let the economists play with their "nationwide" numbers, like the fairies at the end of the garden.

There are those who want single people and same sex couples to be given the benefits of in vitro fertilisation. With the spectre of overpopulation it would be better not to have it available for anyone. Population growth is one great source of the problems of growth. The chief obstacle to its curbing is the irrationality of biblical religion which advises one 'to be fruitful and multiply'. Like much other advice in the Bible it is no longer applicable. Rational consideration of the problems of unrestrained growth requires an examination of the influence of religion on public policy.

Dresdener: Our lack of manufacturing is a real worry, and that word innovation is very important. I obviously did not explain myself properly, I am not for out-of-control-hope-for-the-best population growth. I am for Australia going for expansionism on the world stage just like companies wish to expand themselves in their industry. I to be quite honest very rarely disagree with environmentalists statements, however it should not always mean a sacrifice in Australia being able to grow and prosper as a nation. Both innovation and productivity should be treated as key-word priorities. I would like to see much more of the population growth in the regional areas, and a even greater expansion and improvement of their infrastructure both to cope with such growth and to help them prosper and sustain such growth. I am no expert on the matter hence my vague words but I am sick of hearing about how small my country is and how little people we have for our size, and how this affects our ability to be a global influence in world events. We need to march forward against the odds (a very Australian thing or at least its suppose to be, maybe that just applies to people going for greatness for themselves) and strive for greatness, bit by bit.

Dear Ludwig,

Of course we should all be concerned. As I wrote in another post, studies done in the 1950s and 1960s concluded that with the then agricultural production and water storage of our arid continent Australia's population should not exceed 20 million.

Now, we have experts who claim that with our water shortages, reduced agricultural and industrial productivity this drying continent can support a population of 50 million by mid 21st century. A realistic assessment of our future is desperately needed before commitments are made on immigration and imports of skilled labour.

It is time to regenerate the land with native growth it once had, to retain the moisture and soil. Time to learn about native food sources. Time to reverse the population drift into the big cities.

Analyse agricultural practices and eliminate production using excessive irrigation. We import what we need, why waste water to grow it.

Move agriculture and population centres to the Northers regions where water is available. Relocate government departments to create work.
Build hotels to attract people for the tourist market. Everything is achievable. And it is increasingly clear that we are heading towards collapse if we don't change direction.

The following website may be of interest:

www.redreaming.info.DisplayStory.asp?id=24 - 21k -

It's about, "Creating a sustainable Society."