Freerider,

1. Yes, I did mean refute. A typo.

2. Human skin colour in situation stated above, I predict would change regardless of selective pressure from competion. which, incidently, could be eliminated via experimental controls.

3. Dawkins makes the point that if a God did create the Universe that God is a complex entity. Following ths: How did God evolve its complexity. How do you explain the existence of God(s)? N.B. I am not asking does God exist? Hence, I repeat the question, "How do explain God's complexity and existence?"

"Human skin colour in situation stated above, I predict would change regardless of selective pressure from competion. which, incidently, could be eliminated via experimental controls."

Without selection pressure, it wouldn't change at all. Unless there is a factor giving dark pigmentation a survival advantage, people could live in Iceland for a million years and remain black as the ace of spades. What you're describing is a kind of Lamarckism.

I'd like to bring the discussion back to my original query: why is it evolution in particular that upsets fundamentalists? It seems that you can disprove or ignore any number divine dictates in the bible - from spousal abuse to buggering house guests - but exploring the origins of life is strictly off limits.

My guess is simply that a non-biblical explanation of life piques the death anxiety which drives so many people into fundamentalism in the first place, but I'm interested in other perspectives.

Sancho,

1. I will reflect on the pigmentation situation. I can see why short giraffes would die-out, but skin colour, while it might stress the body to lack of Vitamin D from being black; it is unlikely to prevent reproduction. I appreciate where you are coming from and will think it through.

2. With regards to believing in god and the need for an after-life, some [my references are not to hand] have suggested that higher brain functions [cortex] are trying to work with low brain functions [limbic system, which links in with the survival instinct].

Cheers,

O.

Sancho,

From Internet browsing one draws the possibility that skin colour "is" a result of selective pressure on the SLC24A5 threonine-111 allele, which is said to carried by blacks and whites. Herein, the pressure is on the allele not entire persons. So maybe black races would turn white in Iceland over time, via natural selection. The Internet referencing used was very poor, so, I will need to check this out idea, further, on a univiversity database.

Sells and Boaz,

Perhaps you might join Freediver in explaining the existence of God?

Sancho, selection is on the person carrying the allele. So if only dark people lived in Iceland and no mutants with lighter skin ever appeared, light skinned people would not occur. In contrast, if you had people with many skin colours, those with light skins would be fitter, would produce more children and over time the population would shift from predominantly dark to predominantly white. You need competition. This is what Darwin described as “survival of the fittest”. This is a classical example of natural selection and easily testable.

Freediver, you are unfortunately totally confused. Natural Selection IS evolution, just as Artificial Selection is. Both are testable and able to be proven false. Examples you might like to consider include antibiotic resistance, insecticide resistance and herbicide resistance. All these have been tested and the results written up in scientific papers.

TRTL..nice to see a degree of open mind there :)

PERICLES..

"Well of course they didn't. So isn't it just possible - or even extremely likely - that they simply conjured up this God person to provide a credible explanation."

Your pedantry is your own worst enemy mate.
But my 'kaboom' statement was connecting to the Big Bang.
The first verse of Genesis is not a metaphor it is a statement..(of fact)
So simple and refreshing:

In the beginning...God.....created....

Now..you suggest that this idea of God was just 'conjured up'....

The reasons I disagree are many, but the most important ones aside from my own faith position, is the stark comparison between the Creation story and the Creation 'myths' like Gilgamish etc.

Perhaps its me... but when I hear of 'gods fighting and chopping each other up, and one body part becoming the moon'..... errrr cough.. lets face it.. we KNOW that isn't the case today.

But can we scientifically prove "In the Beginning...God did NOT create"? err..no.

What we DO have is 'speculation'.... and a lot of interesting facts about chemistry and the process of natural selection. But as to having proved God did NOT create? we are millenia away from that.