I was at a cello recital recently, sitting in the balcony.

A couple of upwardly mobiles, toddler and baby sat behind me.

Baby whinge, whinge....WHINGE!! After much frowning and moi moving my seat, bub is taken out of auditorium by dada.

Mumsy allows toddler to play up and down the balcony steps, smiling indulgently at the little brat when she stumbles about the balcony, disrupting the concert. Not a sign of a NO!...

So I picked the kid up and threw her off the balcony.

Then I woke up.

Sympathy Ginx.

I don't know how many times I've seen parents give lollies to a misbehaving kid to shut them up in public. Or a can of soft drink

Robert,

Can I clarify whether you intend to track down the studies? If so when you do can you let me know the important information lacking in the story:

What percentage of men physically force sex and what percentage of women do so? Also what is meant by “increase in probability” in this context? If a 10% increase means eg. an increase from 1% of the population of non spanked to 1.1% of the population of spanked then the actual percentages would be particularly relevant.

What proportion of people engage in unsafe sex and what proportion of people engage in risky sex and are there any other known factors which correlate to both physical discipline and unsafe sex and might confound the finding? Eg. Are people lacking corporal punishment less likely to have multiple sexual partners? A personality type evident in early childhood that doesn’t attract corporal punishment as a child also being a personality type that doesn’t display interest in violence and sex as an adult? Is there any basis for the researcher’s belief about discipline and relationship with parents. Is it something based on other research or just an inflamatory guess by the researcher with no other basis then the likelihood of unsafe sex?

What does “smacked a lot” mean in relation to sadomasochistic sex? Do people who subscribe to corporal punishment on average attain the “smacked a lot” frequency or is their smacking more likely to fall in a lower category? A comparison is made of “smacked a lot” with not smacked at all. Did they do a comparison with smacked a moderate amount? If so were they more or less likely to engage in sadomasochistic sex?

The news item does not make me feel particularly familiar with the study, its results, and the implications. I look forward to you filling me in if applicable. All I got from the news story is that spanking hasn't been shown to lead to impotence as the title of the news story seems to imply.

mjpb, I'd been trying to locate the material. Your question prompted a renewed search and I've found it (easily to my shame for not finding it earlier).

The paper is at http://pubpages.unh.edu/~mas2/CP91-ID91-PR91-%20Draft%20I%20with%20Gamez%20comments%20accepted.pdf

Linked off Murray Straus's online research papers on corporal punishment
http://pubpages.unh.edu/~mas2/CP-Empirical.htm

The parent page at http://pubpages.unh.edu/~mas2/cp.htm has links to reviews, critiques etc.

I've not read the entire thing yet but in a skim I just came across the following which could contradict my earlier claim of an established causal link - I'm thinking about that. The first part is similar to David's point about some kids being different natures to other kids.

"A second limitation is that the cross-sectional design does not permit establishing the causal direction. This is particularly important in the case of corporal punishment because that is something parents typically do to correct misbehavior. Thus, corporal punishment, rather than being a cause of later antisocial, may be a consequence early child behavior problem behavior, which carries over into adulthood.
However, there are at least seven longitudinal studies which show that although misbehavior does cause corporal punishment and does result in cessation of the misbehavior at the time, in the longer run use of corporal punishment boomerangs in the sense of increasing the probability of subsequent antisocial behavior (Straus, 2001; Straus & Medeiros, 2008). "

R0bert

US, “I didn't write the story”
Sorry, I must’ve missed the “Author unknown” part of your first post and realise that I must’ve rushed reading it. My excuses for misunderstanding.
However, I don’t like the idea of placing boys and girls in different boxes as in, “boys are more equipped to understand the language of violence and girls the language of mental torment.”
I tend to look at children as individuals, they are all so different, and the fact that you personally found it easier to cope with shaking or a whack than verbal violence doesn’t mean that all boys do. My parents never smacked us, but my mother used to shout and I am sure that I found that just as upsetting as my two brothers did. As a child I was consciously aware that shouting made me feel horrible and nervous and I didn’t understand why she shouted.

I am a bit upset that you, and perhaps others, think that parents, who say that they have successfully raised responsible children without “needing” to smack them, are on a high horse or are boasting.
I made clear that boasting was not my intention. I merely claimed that there is no need to smack and gave you my own example to illustrate that to BD, as did Romany.
I do not look down on parents who have trouble parenting. That’s why I said that it’s a shame that there is no free parenting course so that parents with good intentions can learn better parenting skills.

BD
” FIRMNESS..
PREDICTABILITY..
CONSISTENCY..
CREATIVITY..
are probably the best child rearing tools. (all contained within the envelope of love)”
I agree!

I will continue this post below as I want to reply to what you said, but from then on I’ll try to stick to the original topic.

BD,
“Here's how it works Celivia”
Firstly, no child is perfect; if they were, no parenting would be necessary.
Secondly, I already know how it works. I am an experienced parent and before I came to Australia, I used to teach at a school in a disadvantaged area with a high rate of children with behavioural problems, many (70%) of whom were new immigrants and refugees and did not speak the language.
I have also ‘unofficially’ fostered some children with behavioural problems from parents who couldn’t cope, just to give them a break for a few weeks or a few months.
So please believe me, I know how it works.


Celivia can take us into the twilight zone of how to cope with that :) Simply tell the child that s/he has two choices:
1. “Keep arguing about ice-cream but if you ask one more time, there will be no ice-cream before OR after dinner. “ Assuming that you already told her/him the reason for your ‘no snacking before dinner’ rule.
Then, stick to this; if you stick to your word there may be some drama this time and perhaps next time, but s/he will soon give up and just accept the rule. If you are consistent, they will simply learn that no matter how much drama they create, you will never give in. I’d rather go as far saying that I’ll throw the ice-creams in the bin if s/he continues- and then there won’t be ice-creams for the rest of the week- than to give in to a screaming kid. I never had to actually do this, but I would have!
2. Go and play or help mummy set the table, fold the serviettes. If you do that, you can have an ice-cream after dinner.

I stand by what I said- no matter how misbehaved a child is (assuming there is no medical problem), there is no need at all to scream at them or whack them. You need (your list again: ” FIRMNESS..
PREDICTABILITY..CONSISTENCY..CREATIVITY.. and I’ll add patience and empathy to that!