It appears to me that regardless of the subject posted on the Forum, the responses generally seem to be lacking in the hard statements needed to answer the interwoven questions posed!

Instead we seem to become deluged with petty and sometimes childish responses, the poster seemingly intent on simply point-scoring at the expense of a previous poster!

One could be forgiven for thinking that he or she was reading excerpts from the Parliamentary Hansards, judging from the level of communication exhibited in the plethora of posts, most of them saying little or nothing but simply "sniping" at a previous poster!

Some people treat this Forum and it`s content as a daily "chat room", wasting time and space by innanely arguing "the for`s and the against`s" of subject matter created by their own process of side-tracking away from the original subject matter!

If a serious issue is posted on this Forum, participating posters should have the intestinal fortitude to give the hard answers required instead of "to-ing and fro-ing" in typical Politician style evasiveness!

This country is in a bad way, regardless of what our Pollies tell us, and there is a lot that is being hidden from the general public. As always we are being treated like mushrooms, fed on crap and kept in the dark! There are going to be a lot of citizens facing hard times in the years ahead and we all have to "cut our cloth according to the measure" if we are to endure the obstacles that are rapidly approaching us as a nation!

If we are to prosper in this economically blundering world we all have to exercise more openess and honesty. We have to thrust aside religious and political preferences and become more nationalistic and morally inclined!

Great nations rise and fall!....a fact of history, and we do not want to be one them at this early stage of our history!.....Please let us all endeavour to be more honest with each other and if the hard words are needed, let us NOT be afraid of using them!

> " We have to thrust aside religious and political preferences and become more nationalistic and morally inclined!"

Good luck getting the christians and religious to stop lobbying government and swamping government agencies with frivolous complaints.

> "Great nations rise and fall!....a fact of history, and we do not want to be one them at this early stage of our history!.....Please let us all endeavour to be more honest with each other and if the hard words are needed, let us NOT be afraid of using them!"

I think we are probably on the decline. Other nations of the world have smarter people in their governments and our run of public figures have on the whole been close-minded, obsequious fools who defer to whoever they think their international superiors are and who have nothing but scorn for certain citizens of the country.

Lets take the recent "More than just a flag" article as an example which i recently read. Here you have a large group of citizins with apparently less representation than the rest of us and who have chosen to exercise their democratic rights (if they even have any...) in a 'democratic' country and the federal government is meddling with their ability to determine their own lives. The federal bureacrats and politicians don't have to. They are CHOOSING to, despite the people's wishes. Why? What type of bureacrat or politician of a democracy tells a group of constituents this? THIS IS AT THE SAME TIME AS THE 2020 SUMMIT. It really jars with the ideas espoused in this stupid summit.

It's a perfect example of what you are saying here. It's quite a simple matter to not interfere with democracy but the "Great nation" you apparently think we are can't even deal with the democratic freedoms and wishes of it's citizens... I have found this to be true in several areas other than the one above where it is clear this is the intent.

Cuphandle: "There are going to be a lot of citizens facing hard times in the years ahead and we all have to "cut our cloth according to the measure" if we are to endure the obstacles that are rapidly approaching us as a nation!"

Too right! As any student of biology can tell you, the penultimate generation of microbes in a Petri dish has adequate room, enough to eat and isn't dying in its own waste. The next generation becomes extinct or learns to live on the remains of its forebears. The world is a large Petri dish, with massive capacity, but there will still be a penultimate generation of "us microbes". I suspect that generation is not far away, which is a prospect none of our politicians wish to confront, let alone inform the populace about. They're too busy making laws to ensure that the bugs in the deepest sh!t stay there, thus allowing the fortunate ones near the food (which includes themselves, funnily enough)ample opportunity to gorge.

Steel:"The federal bureacrats and politicians don't have to. They are CHOOSING to, despite the people's wishes. Why? What type of bureacrat or politician of a democracy tells a group of constituents this?"

Large mammals are difficult to control and in crowded conditions, with not enough to eat, standing in their own wastes, even more so. The simplest way is to constrain them, which in humans means more and more restrictive laws and more law enforcement personnel. Apparently the Clinton campaign recognises this, as they have announced a plan for an ADDITIONAL 100,000 police in the US, which is already a defacto Police State. Expect similar here.

"Steel" and "Antiseptic":
I was fortunate enough to have lived and survived my "puberty" years during the 50`s and the 60`s, during which time, (and in hindsight), I remain convinced that this country was as close to "Paradise" as is possible to get, especially in light of recent world events!

We are in decline, facts that are only too obviously being illustrated on a daily basis by our rapidly inflating cost structures, mortgage repayment default, increasing homelessness, Bank arrogance and the sheer disdain and contempt exhibited by our Politicians for the community in general!

A recent trip to the city made me so aware of the pressure of living today that weighs so heavily upon the shoulders of the population, so apparent everywhere exhibited by the expressions on all those faces, the faces of Zombies, unfeeling, uncaring, down in the mouth, reminiscent of George Orwell`s 1984!

The happy and boisterous are apparent no longer! We turn on the Radio: Bad news! We turn on the Television: Bad News! We read the newspaper: Bad News!.....Is it any wonder people are unhappy when they are now starting to feel the pinch of Global Economic Policies, watching their own Politicians laughing as they pat each other on the back as they embark on their world junket trips and plan their next list of "Jobs for the boys!"

We are being treated to a KRUDDfest, a Dr Feelgood excercise in "bringing together the best brains, to formulate the direction of the country in the next decade!" ......what a load of crap!....Has anybody noticed that the "Selectees" in the Youth Representation are all specially selected "Achievers", all grinning and punching the air as they give the Government the directives that they had hoped for! Has anybody noticed that 2010 Talkfest (Adult Version) is being loaded with Australia`s top brains and achievers, again to attain the desired result!.......Where is the cross-representation of the people who are the real battlers of this country, who if reperesented, may, just may, have provided some more realistic answers to the many and varied problems facing this rapidly impoverished society?

Thanks for opening this one up, Cuphandle. "..... the responses generally seem to be lacking in the hard statements needed to answer the interwoven questions posed!".

Too often too true!

It seems its even worse, though. When the responses do contain the "hard statements needed", it seems all too frequently neither the article author, nor other respondents, are capable of recognising a "hard statement [of fact]" when it is put before them. I say this because in many cases they plunge on with their assertions, seemingly not recognising that the said "hard statement [of fact]" would call into question the validity of the assertions they have already made, and upon which their ongoing assertions and, perhaps, credibility depend.

Steel has provided a perfect example in this very thread, in introducing the recent article, posted on 11 April, 'More than just a flag', by George Williams. George asserts that electors in the ACT are being denied 'half' their electoral rights when voting in Commonwealth referendums, inasmuch as their Territory is not a State, and that as such the vote cast in it does not enter into consideration with respect to the second part of the Constitutional formula, 'a majority in a majority of States'. A pretty serious assertion, if substantial.

Here is where credibility comes in with respect to both an author, and an even semi-regular poster in this Forum.

At the bottom of an article are listed, as clickable links, other articles by the same author. Did nobody read George Williams' next most recent article, 'Frozen continent' posted on 2 April, and the responses thereto? Hard facts were quoted in response, the implications of which have remained, so far as I can see, utterly un-noticed by all politicians at all levels for nigh on 62 years.

Have a look for yourself. What implications do you see?

One I see is that an unstated qualification for any politician of any party is a total and ironclad unwillingness to check an electoral result with the rule book, in this case the unequivocally clear wording of the Constitution!

What do YOU think?

Cuphandle,

I agree that there can be sniping and less than kind comments posted here. However, it also serves to bring people down a peg or two- and this is not necessarily a bad thing.

One thing I have learned from participating in this forum is that a person needs to pretty much have their opinions based on something concrete. In other words, an opinion needs to be relatively well thought out because if it isn't, it will be pointed out pretty damn quickly.

Opinions are challenged- this is good. People have different ways of communicating- this is also good. The combination of this all provides a great forum in which the difficult issues can be discussed.
Its all good stuff Cuphandle.

Now I need to ask you: Has anything in particular happened for you to feel so passionate about this topic? Please- Real Speak about what is bothering you.

TammyJo:
I am apparently so passionate about this subject because I have witnessed 70 years of lies, deceit, false promises, political manipulation, false wars, and unneccesary poverty, all in the name of greed for money!

I am appalled at the depths that some human beings will plunge to in their effort to obtain money, which it seems today, more so than at any other time in history, is perceived as the panacea of the world`s ills! Nobody seems to be happy with the amount of money they aquire, (by fair means or foul) and the world`s "well to do`s" always WANT MORE!

It is sickening to hear the many stories of the families torn apart by the underhanded methods used by some of it`s members in their effort to obtain control of finances and/or property!.....what has family unity degenerated to in these modern times of "greed and need"
encouraged by a system that sees the family simply as very productive cow to be milked at an ever increasing rate, regardless of the "social Mastitis" resulting!

I am sorry to say that the human race as it exists today WILL have to endure an Armageddon type event to make people across the world (that are the "haves") appreciate what they have and accept their lot, instead of wanting more and more and more!......the penny is there to be spent and not hoarded!.....what goes around comes around!....for every million dollars horded in a bank account means that there is a million dollars less to circulate in the world and thus to provide employment etc for the masses!

You could be forgiven for thinking that I am bitter, but really I am very sad when I realise what could have been in this wonderful country, were it not for the coniving and greed perpetrated by the Masters who have manipulated and fooled the people into thinking that they are "masters of their own destiny"....instead of which they are now relegated to simple numbers in a political money game!

Thank you for your honesty and candor Cuphandle. I agree with most of what you say and it may well take something at biblical proportions to make people sit up and take notice.

However, there is a great life lesson that I've had to learn the hard way and that is: You cannot change anyone else's behaviour- only your own. Acceptance of this will hopefully bring a some sense of peace to one's life.

I wish you best of luck.

Cuphandle,

I know exactly how you feel. However, through years of studying the history of humanity I have come to the conclusion that no particular age is worse than any other. Those at the top have always screwed those beneath them and the domino effect tumbles down through society. Perhaps because of modern technology we just cannot help but be made more aware of this than any other people in any other ages?

However, for every distressing instance of our bad behaviour to each other - whether through personal experience, second hand anecdotes, the media, books, etc., I can call on an incident of the kindness of strangers, random good acts or uplifting moments to combat these.

A stranger paying a compliment; someone who picks up a $10 note you've unknowingly dropped and runs after you to give it to you; a smile from someone you've always been intimidated by. As long as these little incidents in my world continue to outweigh the sum of all the things that are horrifying I reassure myself that we are still in pretty good shape.

TammyJo and Romany: I appreciate and thank you for your comments!

I can assure you that I have always had the interests of the human race foremost in my mind and have always been a supporter of the "under-dog" and the battler, needless to say, sometimes at considerable expense to myself be it psychological or financial, however I still maintain "that" faith in human nature and continue in my endeavors to support the minority of genuine people who do care and are trying desperately to make this world a better place for everyone!

I can only wish you a happy life ahead, and as the late Dave Allen would say:...."may your God go with you!"