On at least one other blog this topic has been discussed recently.

I would like to know what OLO posters think about it and sex work as an occupation.

I think this raises many questions and not many answers

Do we have a need for foreign sex workers? would it actually reduce human trafficing and more open competition reduce the prices of services sold?

Are we hypocritical in that we now have legal brothels but generally don't see prostitution as a legitimate occupation?

What if one of your kids wanted to become involved in the sex industry? Would you have moral issues with that or safety concerns?

Dear Banjo,

Should visas be issued to foreign sex workers? That is a question that only someone in the industry or with knowledge of the industry,
could answer...

Would I object to any of my children being a sex-worker? Of course.

People enter prostitution because their only economic resource is their sexual availability. Not only are they trapped in a dead-end job - for youth and beauty are assets that fade quickly - but the work is dangerous, stigmatized, and often criminal. And when the police crack down on this 'crime,' it is the prostitutes who get arrested, not their 'respectable clients.

As Kingley Davis (1996) points out, prostitution cannot be completely eliminated in a sexually restrictive society (Our Judeo-Christian moral tradition), for it arises in response to those very restrictions.

The tittle is incorrect, it should read '457 Visas' Should they be issued to foreign sex workers?

I don't know how the error occured as I thought I typed 457, but I supose I could have made the mistake. It wouldn't be the first time I've made a typing error.

Dear Banjo,

I just realized that I didn't answer your question as to why prostitution is not respected as a profession?

Since early Christian times the occupation of prostitute in the West has been anything but a respected one. Although she/he may consort on the most intimate terms with politicians and judges, bishops and bankers, the prostitute's status is very low.

The reason can again be traced to the Judeo-Christian moral tradition. Prostitutes are used for pleasure alone, and neither they nor the client have any intention that the relationship should lead, in the case of females - to reproduction. By definition, prostitution takes place only outside the context of marriage. In further violation of social norms, the prostitute in Western cultures offers their services for money in a society that regards love as a pre-requisite for legitimate sex. And to make matters worse still, the prostitute flouts her/his promiscuity.

They don't need 457 visas. As long as they get caught, they are given bridging visas and generally allowed to stay here. It's just another way to gain illegal entry and be rewarded for it.

*Since early Christian times the occupation of prostitute in the West has been anything but a respected one.*

Hey, females swapping sex for resources goes back to eons of history,
it happens in various species. To deny it is to deny what happens
in the natural world.

Yup, Christians have a problem with it, but Christians have a problem
with sex, period.

If we look at the Spitzer case, where high class call girls were
charging 1000-5000$ an hour, she went on to become highly popular
on Myspace for her musical talents, with over a million hits, he
lost his career overnight!

So clearly the Christian opinion is not really so valid anymore.

Personally I don't take a moral standpoint, its really up to the
individual and is very much their business, not the business of the
rest of society or my business. Perhaps I'm just a little more tolerant then
your average Christian :)

Dear Banjo,

I've had a re-think about your question: Should visas be issued to foreign sex workers?

My answer is - Yes.

It is an entirely moral judgement for Immigration to say that a woman can come to Australia and work underpaid in a restaurant, clothing factory, or be an underpaid cleaner but cannot legally visit our country and be employed in a legal brothel - where she can be awarded the same protection as Australian workers in the sex-industry.

Foxy,
Firstly, I hope that your posting is an indication of positive response to treatment. In any case you have my best wishes. You and I have disagreed on a couple of issues, but we can have differing opinions. I have found your posts to be informative and interesting.

On topic.
As I understand it, the Government is considering the matter of 457 visas for foreign sex workers. The faction of sex workers that work in the legal brothels do not support the issuing of the visas,on the grounds that it will take business from them. The faction of sex workers, called Scarlet Alliance (Australian sex workers Association) made up of the illegal sex workers, is lobbying the Gov for the introduction of the 457 visas. They claim it will reduce humsn trafficing and that sex work is a legimate occupation. I don't know why they would want extra competition.

457 visas would certainly make it legal for foreigners to ply their trade here.

I would not want a daughter of mine to be a sex worker,for safety reasons. She may like the job and the earnings and the work hours, but she is far more vulnerable for abuse. I don't know what security arrangements legal brothels have to protect the workers. Also her risk of getting STD is a lot higher. Having said that, there are other occupations I would not like a daughter to engage either, for reasons of safety, difficulty and uncleanliness.

I wonder how other religions see prostitution. I am aware of the Christian view. It is about 50 years since I did any bible study but I do not recall if there is a direct commandment, or if the view was formed later by church leaders. I recall that Jesus blessed a prostitute named Mary Magnalin (spelling). So apparently Jesus did not find them dirty or below him.

Many other women accept 'payment in kind' for sex. Be it gifts or a roof over their head. There have benn many marriages of convienience.

So I don't think love is a pre-requisite for sex.

WOOOOOOOAH there young Yabby.. "Christians have a problem with sex period" ? *slap* :)

I disagree. Some might, but thats because of a skewed faith understanding.

What we have a 'problem' with is ... fornication promiscuity and adultery. And its not 'we' who have a problem with it.. it's God Almighty.

Prositution goes back to the first women who saw she could make extra bucks from it, for reasons of poverty alleviation or wealth enhancement.
But it spilled over into Cult Prostitution and was associated with idol worship/fertilty gods and it involved both male and female cult prositutes. During Jesus time the cult of Dionysius was alive and well.

The interesting fact though, is that once the door was opened to such immoral activities, it led to much worse.. involving horrific cruelty to both animal and human.
BACK 2 THE QUESTION.

LEGALLY
The question itself raises a ramification of the whole question of 'Prostitution legalization'.. to be legally consistent of COURSE it should be included in the 457 visa program IF.. there is a 'skills shortage'... which I rather doubt.

MORALLY absolutely not! The very idea of human beings selling their bodies for the sexual satisfaction of others, it degrading, and dehumanizing. Oh wait..thats just our Creators view... don't mind Him.

Even if foreign women or men were allowed here for prositution purposes, it would not change the fact that once the new goal posts have been positioned.. they will represent a 'limit/boundary' that people will want to transgress and cross, for the sake of further financial gain.

While we cannot stamp out prostitution by the force of law, we can sure limit it, and make a community declaration that "This is immoral, evil and illegal"

If we take the view 'currently unnaceptable' then it's open slather for whatever people want.. you know..'loudest, most well funded voices' kind of thing

Dear Banjo,

Thank you for your kind words. And for asking about my health. The results so far are good. I remain positive.

We may have disagreed on some issues - but your arguments were always valid and well made.

As you know I enjoy the Forum discussions - and this one looks like it's going to get quite interesting.

The subject is certainly one that should provide some mixed reactions.

Which is great.

Do we want more STDs in our society?Why do you want to have sex with someone with whom you have no emotional attachment?This image driven society sees power in having sex with their perceived physically perfect female/male counterparts.It is really sick.

Masturbation is far cheaper,honest and safer,until you have the courage to have a relationship with someone who can give you a deeper perception of self.

Dear Arjay,

Kingley Davis (1996) argues that, like other institutions in our society, prostitution exists because it must have some effect, or function, that contributes to the maintenance of society as a whole.

Both men and women, he claims have sound reasons for entering into the relationship.

From the point of view of the prostitute, the occupation offers some advantages: it can be less tedious and better paid than many alternative unskilled jobs, such as office cleaner or assembly-line worker, and there is often the possibility of forming relationships with high-status men.

From the point of view of the clients, prostitution provides a convenient opportunity for sexual contacts. Men who are away from home may find the prostitute a convenient substitute for their usual partners; men with unusual sexual preferences may find that prostitutes will cater to tastes that other women will not; and old or unattractive men may use prostitution as the only way to enjoy sex with a young and attractive woman.

Most importantly, these services involve no complications (safe sex is practiced in legal brothels), obligations, or emotional entanglements. Prostitution, therefore, is functional, for it meets men's needs for a variety of sexual outlets without undermining the family system in the way that more affectionate and involved extramarital relationships would.

Having said all of that, the question arises - Prostitution may be "convenient" for men - but what is the long-term effect on the women of servicing the lonely, the kinky, and the ugly?

*Prositution goes back to the first women who saw she could make extra bucks from it, for reasons of poverty alleviation or wealth enhancement.*

Boazy, swapping sex for resources to feed the offspring, goes
way into the history of our ancestors themelves. If you do a bit
of primatology reading, you will find that both chimps and bonobos
swap sex for food.

Pairbonding itself, (which you call marriage), is quite common
in nature. Now I doubt that you have the ability to be totally
honest and straight forward here, but I bet that if your wife
cut off your sex life completely tomorrow, forever, you might
not be so keen to rush out to work and provide money for the
family to live on.

Foxy

I agree with all your points.

The granting of 457 visas may eliminate, the "sex slave" traffic that still occurs despite legalisation of prostitution. I don't know enough about how the visas work and whether this would prevent the practice of women having their passports taken from them when they arrive in Australia by the criminals who exploit these women.

Perhaps we need to go further in the legalisation of prostitution, from what I know and I may be wrong, it is still illegal for women to "work" from home or on the streets. I understand that part of the reason for 'street-work' is so that they can remain autonomous in the hours they work and the clients they select. It is only the larger brothels which are mostly owned by men that are legal. If there is one industry that should be dominated by women, surely it is the 'oldest profession'. Then there would be some kind of 'career path' for some of the women. It must have an earlier 'use-by-date' than any other profession I can think of.

Foxy, I share your concerns on the long-term psychological impact that servicing a variety of men would have on some people - no doubt there are those who could cope. It must take courage and a maturity of mind that very young women have yet to develop. However, it is these same young women who are most in demand. This is why I asked so frequently of the threads about porn, whether the men, who dismissed any criticism of the industry, would recommend their children into a profession that has a short career span and dangers of both STD's and abuse.

I guess, until we are far more accepting of our sexual natures and our children educated more comprehensively than at present, the sex industry will remain fraught with the potential for abuse and exploitation. Therefore, the granting of visas for foreign sex workers would be a positive start as they would be required to meet standards just like any other person entering Australia to work.

Dear Yabby.. so does killing off competitive males :)

MIUAUG

MIUAUG <<<< Mating call of the adult male Homo Boazoensis.

Should they be issued to foreign sex workers?

I would have rather thought that it would be discrimation not to let them in.
After all they only have to adopt the same policys as they have overseas workings coming in to work in Abattoirs.

The owners of the brothels should have to pay for all air faires and any children of the Er, skilled forgeign sex workers and their health insurance for the whole family.

Of course the health insurance would be a big one.

Other than that one might think that the Minister for Imagration and the Federal Government were putting Sex Workers before meat workers.

Would you have moral issues with that ?