Turkey is preparing to publish a document that represents a revolutionary reinterpretation of Islam - and a controversial and radical modernisation of the religion.
As part of its aggressive programme of renewal, Turkey has given theological training to 450 women, and appointed them as senior imams called "vaizes".
They have been given the task of explaining the original spirit of Islam to remote communities in Turkey's vast interior.
read the whole article at BBC http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7264903.stm

Reword:
The argument is that Islamic tradition has been gradually hijacked by various - often conservative - cultures, seeking to use the religion for various forms of social control.

So reads:
The argument is that religious and or cultural tradition is regularly hijacked by various demogogues seeking to use religious and or cultural cloaks for various forms of social control for their control.

Such is life, eternal vigilance, which is why free speech is not welcommed, after all it is from free speech that free ideas spread.

ASymeonakis,

You might also be interested in a story in today's Age
(http://www.theage.com.au/news/world/survey-challenges-myths-about-islam/2008/02/27/1203788440028.html)

It describes a massive survey of the world's Muslims which undermines Western stereotypes that equate Islam with radicalism and violence.

The survey (50,000 interviews) was conducted by Gallup in Africa, Asia, Europe and the Middle East shows that the overwhelming majority of Muslims condemned the attacks against the United States on September 11, 2001, and other subsequent terrorist attacks.

Of 50,000 Muslims interviewed only 7% — the radicals — condoned terrorist attacks. Radical Muslims gave political, not religious, reasons for condoning the attacks, the poll showed.

The vast majority of Muslims condemned the attacks because innocent civilians were killed. Some cited religious justifications for their opposition to 9/11, quoting from the Koran — for example, the verse that says taking one innocent life is like killing all humanity.

A HUGE survey of the world's Muslims challenges Western notions that equate Islam with radicalism and violence.
In majority Muslim countries, overwhelming majorities said religion was a very important part of their lives — 99% in Indonesia, 98% in Egypt, 95% in Pakistan. But only 7% of the Muslims surveyed — the radicals — condoned the attacks on the US on September 11, 2001, the poll found.

Polpak has it down pat....

Frank... that article you linked to was not very accurate.

"A HUGE survey of the world's Muslims challenges Western notions that equate Islam with radicalism and violence."

Assumptions in that quote.

1/ The opinions of 'average Muslims' = 'Islam'
2/ That western notions are wrong.

Given that the West has seen countless atrocities perpetrated against it specifically in the name of Islam, their 'notions' are rather understandable.

Without re-hashing material already presented over and over, the important issue here is to establish what Islam as a faith really does teach, rather than what 'Many Muslims' feel it teaches.

You know the deal.. 'EAster+Christmas Christians'..... "do the haj and I'm ok Muslims" nominalism is rife in most religious communities.

7% of Muslims are politically radical ? out of 1.3 billion that equates to.....91,000,000 err.. which is quite a large number.
nearly 5 times Australia's population!

The survey could have missed out on some important data. It should have given a country by country breakdown so that the results can be correlated to other events.

EXAMPLE 1
A 2004 Pew survey revealed that Osama bin Laden is viewed favorably by large percentages in Pakistan (65%), Jordan (55%) and Morocco (45%). In Turkey as many as 31% say that suicide attacks against Americans and other Westerners in Iraq are justifiable

EXAMPLE 2
A 2005 Pew Research study that involved 17,000 people in 17 countries showed support for terrorism in the Muslim world declining along with a growing belief that Islamic extremism represents a threat to those countries.[2]A Daily Telegraph survey[3]showed that 6% of British Muslims fully supported the July 2005 bombings in the London Underground.

UK has 2.8% Muslims 1.5million. 6%=90,000

That is quite a significant figure.. Would you like 90,000 people in your country who FULLY supported London Bombings? I sure don't.

BOAZ, I see you're not going to let uncomfortable facts get in the way of your prejudice.

I know you have a hotline to G**, but are you really serious when you claim to know better than the 50,000 Muslims surveyed by Gallup not only what Muslims think, but also what they believe?

You also claim to know better than the 50,000 Muslims what their religion teaches them no matter what they 'feel it teaches them'. So, according to you, Islam teaches terrorism but the 93% who think it doesn't teach terrorism are just wrong!

Failing to mount a decent evidence-based argument, you predictably mount your regular fear stunt: the 7% of Muslims who are 'radical' (every one of them - you do the maths and find 91 million) are all lining up to kill us infidels! Only simple fools would equate the word 'radical' to automatically mean those with evil intent.

Next you resort to the well-worn ploy of attacking the source. We can't rely on this massive Gallup survey, you say, insisting instead that we trust a Pew survey. Who? Gallup is an internationally reputable research body with a history of more than 70 years. Pew is a fledgling organisation based solely in the US with a particular American-centric view of the rest of the world.

And if Pew doesn't cut the mustard, you ask us to accept a literal reading of an old discredited Daily Telegraph poll. Next you'll have us reading the Herald-Sun.

That derisory Telegraph poll has been doing the rounds of the religious right for yonks, BOAZ, and still no-one seems to be able to find the 90,000 Muslims in Britain just bursting to bring the country to its knees.

I don't know how you are going to sleep at nights what with 90,000 Muslims in Britain and a further 91 million elsewhere in the world sharpening up their weapons. I hope the Sihks don't throw away their kirpans. Australia might need them.

FrankGol: "are you really serious when you claim to know better than the 50,000 Muslims surveyed by Gallup not only what Muslims think, but also what they believe?"

Of course he is, because he does. As a rabid Christian, Boazy is clearly an authority on the meaning of Islam to Muslims.

Besides which, he can read people's minds (which also enables him to say things on their behalf).

David

Well you and Antonio are pretty much on the same par the way I see it.
I ask Antonio sensible questions and he ignorns them or get agressive mostly both.

Your pretty much doing the same - (Sorry but its ture.)

Why dont you just say thanks for the invitation to sit in on meetings with Muslim leaders to give me a little better idea whats on in Australia-.( However I am going to Pass - Or No I am not interested.

Instead like Antonio you dont even reply
Whatever-

There is no seperation of religion and laws if your Muslim
Allah is the law the rule over everything you do eat wear go and much more.

Thats is a simple fact of life.

Dr Ameer Ali the X president of AFIC was probably more active and quick to speak out against any anti social behavoiur.

Here is one of his Media R

http://www.livexports.com/afic.html

Since his retirment some things have changed. I will post a few headings so you know what the Musilms are given to read in Australia.

The fact is very few know whats going on in this country and I would tell you but I doubt you would all listen so why stick my neck out.
Now where do I hear that saying- You Reep what you sew- Perfect

Besides that if you look at the titles on OLO nearly all are about Muslims.
I dont see that being helpful.
Thats just MOP

bTW Jihad does not mean war- It means to protect from attack ..

Dear People Against Live Exports & Intensive Farming
I am not angry simple when I do not know something I avoid to speak about it. Still I am not sure if your interest for Aborigines and Muslims is genuine or not. I wish you are right and me wrong. My interests for Muslim and Aborigine's rights is 100% genuine.
Antonios Symeonakis
Adelaide

"You Reep what you sew"

It's all Greek to me :D

PALE.. sorry..I didn't see that invite. I usually notice you immersed in discussion with others.. so I don't notice everything. Link me to that invite again pls.

Hi FRANK...

<<I know you have a hotline to G**, but are you really serious when you claim to know better than the 50,000 Muslims surveyed by Gallup not only what Muslims think, but also what they believe?>>

Of course not Frank.. I don't believe I tried to make that point.

It not about 'what they think'...or even 'what they believe'...its about "What Islam teaches". And..yes, I do know considerably more than many 'average' man in the street Muslims who know as much about Islam as the Christmas/Easter Christians know about the Bible.

Frank... your claim 'that discredited daily telegraph poll' is an assertion.. with no backup or supporting evidence. Please provide.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/08/14/opinion/main1893879.shtml
NOP research found the following in 2006 (UK)

45% believe 9/11 was a Jewish conspiracy
30% would rather live under Sharia
28% hope Britain will one day become a fundamentalist Muslim state.
78% supported punishment for those who did the cartoons of Mohammad.

Lets say the 'fudged' the figures and simply doubled the actual result... hmm still doesn't look real good.

Why are 'other' surveys 'bad' and your survey 'good'?

PS.. surverys mean little to me, I prefer to focus on what the religion itself teaches. That way...I can avoid 'bias & Prejudice' :)

Boazy: "That way...I can avoid 'bias & Prejudice'"

I nearly spilled my coffee when I read that. In another thread I asked everybody who thinks that Boazy is NOT prejudiced against Muslims to speak up. Nobody did.

Hands up everybody on this thread who thinks Boazy is NOT prejudiced or biased against Muslims.

CJ Morgan nearly spilled his coffee when he read that Boazy said: "That way...I can avoid 'bias & Prejudice'"

Not only did I spill all my coffee, but I choked on my weetbix and wet my pants.

My partner read it too and I still can't get her to stop laughing. She could go on like this for the rest of the day.

BOAZ avoids bias and prejudice? It's Leap Day, not April Fool's Day!

Dear Frank and CJ :) well boys.. the only hilarity which exceeded yours..was mine when I read your coffee and wine flavored comments :)

The thing is...I'm biased toward a true understanding of facts..and you blokes are in denial :) there.. now if that doesn't make you choke ...nothing will 0_^ (see how crafty I am)

ANTONIOS... seems to me you are looking at the issue of Islam purely as a social phenomenon mate. Yes, as a social phenomenon, it could be tweaked, if..and only if.. you can persuade Imams to regard the Quran in a way which is un-natural and unthinkable.. ie.. that it does not represent the literal 'Word of Allah' for all time to all men.

If you can persuade masses of Muslims of this...then there is hope of 'repackaging' it...

The main problem with that idea, is that 'Islam' by its essential nature means 'submission' and it is life lived under the rule of Allah..his laws..not mans. This is where your view gets into trouble.

Anything other than that, would be a religion yes..but it won't be Islam.

But hey...I'm all for it.. if the Turkish or any government for that matter can dilute that faith to the point of 'flexible social phenomemon' then.. 'my work is done' :)

cheers all.

David as you know I am atheist. When I speak for religious I do it because I try to block the use of religious as a tool to victimize women rights, human rights or even worst as a tool which could be used against the Peace on our planet or against the cooperation between people or nations with different religious. My interests are not the religious but our world, the people on our planet.
Antonios Symeonakis
Adelaide

CJ, Frank and symmie, socialist fun bags like you can run people down all you like.

Does not make you right, Do any of you guys seriousley believe that even a 1% minority of a given religion believing in a justification to harm others, i.e anyone who does not believe in ALLAH with over a billion followers is not a bold figure then you guys are on on ecstacy man.

No matter if David is a Christian, he is bang on the money, apart from Symmie our Ethnic buddie, if you boys think your children will be able to mix it with the Mussies then you need your collective heads read. I will look forward to some Pakistani boys converting your daughters to Islam.

Perhaps Bilal will be there to help out with the wedding.

Read the papers its always those pesky Mormons blowing non believers up. And those darn happy clappers are a real bunch of terrors .

It seems that it is always the religion of peace that does the most savage of attacks.

You guys are TRAITORS.

Symmie, you ungrateful oaf, I have read all about you and all you have done since you got here is whinge, you of all people would know all about ISLAM but yet you defend those who would seek to destroy the people who welcomed you, gave social security, helped you when you were down.

I spit on your mothers grave!

Scotty

Your post is up to your usual standard. I'm sure you've persuaded hundreds of converts away from Islam with your convincing evidence, logical reasoning, scintillating intelligence and sparkling wit.

What FrankGol said.

Dear Frank :)

the problem with presenting:

" convincing evidence, logical reasoning, scintillating intelligence and sparkling wit."

is that you get called a whole list of names by other folks.. or.. (as in your case) you get generalized stonewalling but little effort to demonstrate the weakness of the case :)

Now..that's not fair..(whiney tone)

I just receive this unbelievable convoluted reasoning from a Muslim on youtube.

When challenged about Mohammad marrying a 6 yr old.. he siad "But her father OFFERED her to mohammad"

I've never in all my reading of Islamic literature ever come across anything even remotely hinting that this was the case. All I've found is "Mohammad had a dream.. seeing him with Ayesha" and based on that dream..he actually proposed the marriage.

Now..that is the 'fact' of the matter.. without entering the arena of making value judgements.

What did this Muslim say ?

Here it is ..word for word:

<<AbuBakr did 'offer' his daughter to Muhammad(saws), by excepting his asking for her hand,>>

Do you see it ? now incedibly twisted is this blokes mind..and all who reason thus.

"I ask for a kg of sausages at your shop"= "You OFFERED me a kg of sausages"... I mean.. c'mon.. lets all get real here.

At least he TRIED to respond to the 'abuse of children in 65:4' but his reasoning there was equally twisted. In short..he does not deny that the Quran permits sex with pre-pubescent children (in marraige)
And...that such woefully abused children can be (God forbid) DIVORCED!

Why does he agree with my claim ? Simple.. because my claim is based on evidence which is irrefutable. (If language means anything)

Now..if a passionate Muslim can at least address the question.. I fail to see how you who try to rip me apart cannot.

*tightens 'anti-adhominen' belt*

It never ceases to amaze me that you have the gall to write this stuff, Boaz:

>>the problem with presenting: "convincing evidence, logical reasoning, scintillating intelligence and sparkling wit." is that you get called a whole list of names by other folks.. or.. (as in your case) you get generalized stonewalling but little effort to demonstrate the weakness of the case :)<<

On the contrary, the problem with presenting logical refutation of your fanciful argumentation is that you simply choose to disappear in a puff of smoke. It really is a waste of time.

I'm still waiting for your response to my - completely free of any name-calling - challenge for you to produce evidence to support yet one of your over-the-top claims for the reliability of your sources.

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=1528#29330

Unfortunately, in this case there isn't even any grainy footage of religious fanatics on YouTube to help your cause.