I just can't stand this anymore- I gotta vent. I am totally amazed at the number of idiot people who choose to talk into their hand-held mobile phones whilst driving. It is just as dangerous as drink driving yet it seems to be so much more acceptable. Why is this? Is it sheer arrogance or just natural stupidity that drives (no pun intended)these individuals to flout the law- and even more importantly- not hesitating to put other road users and pedestrians at mortal risk due to their inattention and selfishness. While it is difficult to legislate for stupidity our laws need to be tougher and come down just as hard on these people as they are on drunk drivers.

I see it frequently and the user usually shows no fear of police. Why would they the police arent there. Police are the great failure of the state governments. The state politicians want their bright, shiny new buildings and their self-aggrandising schemes but forget about what they have already built as systems to manage the state. If you want a vision of the future click on 2 Timothy 3. It equates to the film "Children Of Men".

One of the first instincts when a phone rings is to answer it as soon as possible in case one misses the call, and I believe this is the basis of answering mobile calls on the run, regardless of the lawful consequences. Most of these habits are avoidable, e.g., business calls where other diversions (may be) put in place, and other important calls, for which hands free devices are available. Other replies are un-necessary; what is the frantic necessity to reply to Mildred or Cedric for some social palaver? The law as exists is futile. and I believe some technical solution to disable mobile phone call connection in-vehicle without hands-free (e.g. bluetooth) or other means, needs to be explored. Perhaps CSIRO? What do you think?

Apparently people using hands free have the same amount of accidents as people holding a phone. It's the distraction, not the hand off the wheel.

Well Vanilla, can you back up your assertion with stats, would be happy to accept some data, just as a general view on this subject. Thankyou

The problem is that the people who do this think that the chance of being caught by a police officer is very tiny indeed, and that no one else can do anything about their indiscretions.

For a large portion of the populace, it’s all about the perceived risk of being caught, and has nothing to do with respect for the law or concern about the risks to one’s safety or the safety of others.

That’s the thing we need to address.

Of course, the number of police on the ground is always going to be piddlingly small. So what’s the answer?

It is simple – empowerment of the normal citizen to do something about it. If citizens were encouraged by police, in a major publicity campaign, to quietly take a few photos with their mobile phone or other camera of a person when they encounter them using a mobile phone while driving.

Photos of the person, the car in its larger setting and the number plate would be sufficient evidence to take a complaint to the police.

Only a passenger would be able to do this from a moving vehicle of course.

Complaints of this sort should be facilitated as much as possible. Currently, the police appear to be awfully negative towards this sort of community policing effort, which is an absolute crying shame and which is strongly against the general ethics of policing.

Complaints could be made by email. The police would be able to quickly assess the photos to see if there is sufficient evidence, and quickly issue a fine notice accordingly.

Empowerment of the people to do something about upholding the law is the key. If every citizen is a potential police officer in the eyes of would-be offenders, then this abuse of mobile phones…and many other misdemeanours, would drop right off.

Like you TammyJo, I get extremely frustrated at my inability to do anything about blatant law-breaking. It disgusts me to the extreme that citizens are virtually powerless to do anything, unless an accident has occurred.

galah some references (not sure about the originating stats though) returned from http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=mobile+phone+handsfree+driving&btnG=Google+Search&meta=cr%3DcountryAU

http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/stories/s1412283.htm "Drivers who had used a mobile phone, either holding it to their ear or using a hands-free system, were 4.1 times more likely to have an accident in the next 10 minutes than if they had not made a call.

The comparative risk with a hand-held phone was no less than 4.9 times, and with hands-free phones it was 3.8 times."

The paper was supposedly published on the British Medical Journal website in mid July 2005 but I've not yet found it.

Some local work at http://www98.griffith.edu.au/dspace/handle/10072/5177?mode=full&submit_simple=Submit "Using a closed-circuit driving track environment, we investigated the influence of using a hands-free mobile (or cell) phone on various biomechanical and perceptual factors that underlie the control of driving. Results showed that in three tasks representative of everyday driving conditions, the perceptual control of action was compromised when compared to a control condition where no mobile phone conversation was present. While conversing, critical control actions related to braking were postponed on approach to a corner. During controlled braking, as when approaching a stationary car at a traffic light, the degree of braking was reduced and braking style was altered in a non-optimal manner. During an obstacle avoidance task, car dynamics were affected as a result of the conversation. Interpretation of the results is motivated by the ecological approach to perceptionaction and the theory of affordances. It is concluded that a driver's sensitivity to prospective information about upcoming events and the associated perception and awareness of what the road environment affords may both significantly be degraded when simultaneously using a hands-free mobile phone. Implications for intervention and policy are discussed."

R0bert

Thanks for that RObert, a lot to go thru thoroughly

Yes it frustrates me too. Why should we have to take extra risk on the road just because others want to talk on the phone while driving!?

I have very little knowledge of technology but wouldn't it be possible for a clever technician to invent some kind of mobile phone blocker, which, as soon as one gets into the car his/her mobile phone is disabled?
This, once invented, should be installed compulsory in all cars.

"citizens...powerless", ludwig. quite right.

but on the phone question: the only solution is technology. our masters will discover too many people are causing accidents, so they will legislate to disable phones in cars. or they won't. but like any other question in oz, nothing the serfs can do about it.

and yes, hands free doesn't help much, the distraction is equivalent to being dwi. does help some, though- some woman nearly collected me yesterday cause she clipped a corner due to steering with one hand. either that or hadn't grasped the significance of the center line.

there is another side to it, ludwig: if a private person accuses, they are subject to retribution. your photo of someone driving and phoning wouldn't stand up in court. it probably needs legislation , driving technology to nobble phones in cars. won't happen any time soon, due to rule 1.

take 2 bex and lie down, nothing we mug ozzies can do.

I find your response somewhat curious DEMOS.

You are an arch advocate of effective democracy. Well, surely effective democracy sits very well with a strong rule of law and an effective ability for the average citizen to play a part in upholding it….so that everything in our society is as fair and as safe as possible for us all.

I would have thought you would be all for improved policing and better empowerment of the populace.

There should be major publicity campaigns telling the public how to do their bit to uphold a strong rule of law. Instead, what we effectively have is an expectation by the police and authorities for the public to do NOTHING when subjected illegal activity, unless a very serious incident has occurred….at least as far as road-safety issues go.

People are put in a position of either having to cop illegal, dangerous and offensive activity in their faces without offering any response, or take matters into their own hands and approach the offender or show then their discontent in an offensive manner. It's no wonder that road rage has become so significant.

The right sort of evidence WOULD hold up in court. Why would you think that photos that show the necessary details wouldn’t constitute the necessary evidence?

We’ve had a neighbour watch network around the country for many years. People are encouraged to report suspicious behaviour. They don’t have to wait for an incident to occur or even for anything illegal to be done.

We also had a ‘dob in a smoky vehicle’ campaign running for many years, where people were encouraged to report smoky exhaust-emitting vehicles.

I’ll also note that the police will act on very minor complaints of unusual types.

But, it appears that when it comes to road safety issues – mobile phones, tailgating, etc - THINGS THAT FREQUENTLY LEAD TO ACCIDENTS, INJURY AND DEATH OF INNOCENT PEOPLE – the policy is completely different.

WHY?? ?? ?? ??

Robert,

Thank you for taking the time to find the studies. It seems to stand to reason that the distraction is the problem. It takes less manual dexterity and concentration to hold something on your ear then it does to manipulate gears. If the manual thing was the issue manual cars would be banned.

The scary is that some people chat away merrily and self righteously on their hands free and react with disdain if they spot someone doing the same thing on a hands held.

Crikey, I have provided some pretty juicy stuff for discussion for all you readers out there who share the frustration expressed by TammyJo, Celivia and Ludwig.

So let’s get stuck into some juicy debate, and see if we can’t come up with some answers to this highly sh*tful situation of being subjected to dangerous and illegal actions on our roads without being able to do a *@#@* thing about it!

One third of all deaths on the road are pedestrians. Half of these are aged over 55. Something MUST be done to stop them!

Ludwig, I'm getting angrier!

What are the car insurance policies?

Insurance companies don't cover the drunk-driver's own damage.

They also should not cover the damage of drivers who cause an accident because they were talking on the phone- I dare say even if the phone was turned on in the car they should not be covered.
Your phone does not need to be switched on during the trip.

It's easier to check straight after an accident whether a phone was left on than it is to prove that someone was on the phone at that time.
Drivers who have their phone turned on during an accident should also not have the right to make insurance claims for their own damage.

Not only do these anti-social drivers risk other people's life, they also are a cause of more expensive insurance cover that I do NOT want to pay for.
Why should we all have to pay for the extra damage that they cause?

Perhaps we should all HONK HONK HONK every time we see a driver using a phone and POINT AT THEM so other drivers will join in.

Thank you everyone- you have all raised excellent points of view on this bugger of a dilemma. There have been some great ideas worth exploring further. Even though talking on cell phone whilst driving is illegal- chances of being caught are slim- so that side of changing behaviour is nigh on impossible. Perhaps with time it will become socially unacceptable and that would make people think twice about it. Who knows. I for one am going to toot my horn at anyone driving and holding/and talking on their cell phone and do a quick charade (nicely) letting them know what real asses they are. Wish me luck!!

Celivia, it is an interesting idea to extend the illegality of mobile phone usage in a car to simply having the unit turned on. And I’m sure you are right about the need for reform in insurance policy in regard to illegal mobile phone usage.

But it still comes back to the need for effective policing. If people think that there is only a tiny chance that they’ll get caught, then no change in the law is like to achieve much, except perhaps something really draconian such as mandatory jail terms for offenders.

You are willing to “HONK HONK HONK” at offenders and draw attention to them…but you, and everyone else who has commented in this thread, seems to be stone cold on my idea of the public actually upholding their duty of care by way of gathering evidence and making formal complaints, which if it was properly facilitated by the police and authorities, could be done on a scale large enough to really impact on this type of infringement.

We either need something like this or a vastly increased police presence on our roads… in unmarked cars. I’d reckon at least a ten-fold increase would be needed to make any impression. That’s not gonna happen. So the obvious way to go is to empower the public to practice their fundamental duty of care by being able to properly undertake community policing.

There seems to be an enormous schism here, that I have noticed repeatedly on this forum: great concern or frustration over one or another point of law or dangerous activity, but a total reluctance to endorse improved policing!

To me it just doesn’t make any sense at all!

Ludwig- your comments regarding increasing the community policing of cell phone drivers has merit. However, when one really thinks it through it is probably not workable. I think people just could not be bothered to report this issue. They would have to take the picture of the offender and the licence plate, process the photo's into a hard copy, go to police station (sometimes only open at certain times), make a formal complaint/statement etc. In these days of people being time poor and wrapped up in their own lives, I do not believe they could be bothered. Furthermore, society at large would likely feel quite uncomfortable with taking on a policing role. Also, there is the potential for a road rage incident to occur thereby endangering the person reporting the incident. There are just too many negative aspects that outweigh the positive ones that would ensure community policing of this issue to be doomed.

Ludwig, I'm not 'cold' to your idea of policing, but like Tammy-Jo, I find that it's just too impractical to take pictures of someone while using the phone.
Usually you see these drivers in a flash- one would firstly have to have a passenger to do the photographing, then one would have to follow them from behind to take a picture of the number plate, then pull up beside them to photograph them through the side window to snap them in action on the phone. Will this lead to car chases and dangerous driving?

The simplest way would still be the disabling device I mentioned; mobile phones will automatically be turned off as soon as they're taken into the car. Problem solved.

In New Zealand there is a "report a driver" scheme and I have enclosed the website that explains it. This scheme includes all manner of idiot driving issues (speeding, tailgating etc..) Also, there has been some talk by state pollies on setting up a 'dob a driver' scheme- article also enclosed. Perhaps implementing a scheme similar to the New Zealand model could be considered and legislated for. That would certainly act to deter culprits and utilizes community resources- the people!! I honestly think this is the way to go.

http://www.police.govt.nz/service/road/roadwatch.html

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=79964

TammyJo

Thankyou very much for those links. They made my day.

I support Dr Bob Such and the New Zealand online road safety complaint report facility all the way.

They are such simple ideas. There is no excuse for their non-implementation in Australia.

Regarding taking photos as evidence for formal complaints; I reckon there would be a lot of people out there who would be only too willing to be prepared to do it.

It is actually a lot easier than you perceive. Digital photos can be very easily downloaded and emailed. Photos from my camera, and I presume from at least some mobile phones, have the time and date attached to the filename, if not imprinted on the image.

I can’t imagine it would be that hard to get one shot of the driver with mobile phone to ear and then one of the licence plate. Sometimes you wouldn’t be able to get the second photo, but mostly you would.

Celivia, you couldn’t get embroiled in a car-chase, tailgating event or other harassment in order to get your photos without committing an offence yourself. You’d have to do it coolly, calmly and totally legally.

Only a very small portion of the public would need to do this to greatly increase effective policing. The key point is; that if any member of the public can potentially do this, then most would-be offenders would surely stop undertaking blatant offences.

Alright, so maybe gathering hard evidence is a bit much for most people. Being able to make complaints without any hard evidence and have them taken seriously would be just wonderful.

If the police would be so kind as to keep a database of complaints, inform every driver when a complaint is made, and act against any driver that incurs say three complaints in quick succession of five in three months by way of charging them with dangerous driving…then we would definitely see huge inroads made towards safer roads!! !! !!