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The Forum > General Discussion > Plastic Shopping Bags

Plastic Shopping Bags

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Cevilia, I'm puzzled... surely damage that is done to our wildlife is very much a form of environmental damage?

Indeed, really the only way in which "damage" is a meaningful concept is the degree to which it affects life. If something doesn't contain life, I'm not sure even sure it qualifies as an "environment". I doubt very many greenies would get upset about, e.g., digging up asteroids to mine them for minerals, unless doing so presented a risk to life on Earth.
Posted by wizofaus, Saturday, 12 January 2008 7:02:22 AM
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Belly,
I do agree that every little bit we can do for the environment counts. But while fluorescent globes seem a good thing because they are more energy efficient, we should be concerned about correct disposal of these globes. Environmental groups say that most of them are being dumped in landfills and because they contain mercury, which is very toxic, this will become a health and environmental concern. They should be properly disposed of through chemical clean-ups. This, generally, is not happening.

Wizofaus,
I can see why you’re puzzled- perhaps I haven’t explained properly. What I’m trying to say is that the use of plastic bags would not be such a 'direct' threat to our wildlife (e.g. strangling or choking them instantly) if people would dispose of or recycle the bags in a proper way rather than litter them all over the country.
There are always the more indirect threats, too, such as the wastes produced in the manufacturing of bags and how they break down. And this affects the environment in a more indirect way.

Littering is a big problem, which should be addressed and controlled. I don't have the answer to the methods we can use to reduce littering- education through campaigns, perhaps?
When driving I regularly notice careless, ignorant people (TOSSERS!) throwing their rubbish out of their car window. I’m not sure if education will change the behaviour of tossers.

Continued...
Posted by Celivia, Saturday, 12 January 2008 3:34:47 PM
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I’d have thought that the price of plastic bags is already calculated into the price of our groceries. We might not be charged for them separately, but consumers pay for them in other ways, don’t they? Correct me if I’m wrong. Perhaps it would be better to be charged for them as separate items.
I remember as a child that my mother had to pay for all bags including bread bags at the bakery. We would reuse the same bag to be refilled at the bakery with sliced bread until it had holes in it.
Would the manufacturing of bags made of biodegradable materials be more costly than the manufacturing of plastic bags? I have no idea.
I am in two minds about biodegradable bags as I am about the light globes. Biodegradable bags are only the answer if they don’t end up in landfill where they will release methane, a greenhouse gas.

So I don’t know what kind of bag out of the two would be more environmentally friendly; it all depends how responsible people are.

ATM, I hear both sides of the issue and find it increasingly hard to make up my mind. It’s a complex issue.
A conventional plastic bag may be less damaging to the environment if it’s been recycled after use than a biodegradable bag that ends up in landfill where it will release methane.
But… a biodegradable bag that is re-used properly (e.g. used in compost) may be less damaging to the environment than a plastic bag that is littered.
But what if they’re both disposed of in the most responsible way? I simply don’t know.
See what I mean? I find it hard to say whether one or the other will be ‘better’ because it is quite a complex issue.

I feel that the best solution for now would be to use re-useable bags such as the fabric green bags and to limit the use of plastic as well as biodegradable bags.
Posted by Celivia, Saturday, 12 January 2008 3:45:36 PM
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Well you're never going to stop people littering. There's just way too many people using way too many bags to prevent it. Preventing them from being manufactured in the first place is at least feasible - and there's not likely to be a huge black market for (non-degradable) plastic bags cropping up, given the abundance of alternatives, and the fact that customers don't actually want to buy plastic bags anyway (which makes plastic bags completely different from, say, alcohol, tobacco or marijuana). Once you've got into the habit of reusing your bags, there really no loss of convenience. On the occasion that you inevitably forget or find yourself at a store without a bag, having to pay 50c for a biodegradable bag would hardly cause any great pain.

Eventually all packaging is going to need to be reusable, recyclable or biodegradable. We have the technology, the immediate economic cost is barely any more, and the long term cost is surely far far less. If anything's a no-brainer for regulation, that is.
Posted by wizofaus, Saturday, 12 January 2008 4:54:29 PM
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I still am having trouble getting a point across, once our beer and soft drink bottles mostly got recycled.
Taken back to be cleaned and then refilled, the cash deposit made it something most people wanted to do, if not the purchaser.
Cotton is re used over and again, sometimes without being washed.
I believe at times dangerous things can take place importing dirt into food shops.
Once we paid to use brown paper bags ,bigger ones to carry in, America still does.
Paper degrades plastic may never.
Why not pay a deposit for containers?
If only 40 or 50% is reused it would make big inroads into unwanted landfill items I have faith we could do about 90% in time.
Posted by Belly, Saturday, 12 January 2008 5:44:50 PM
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In South Africa there was so much litter that every thorntree along the side of the road sprouted colorful plastic bag "fruit". Walking through a village one day a friend exclaimed rhetorically "Hell, where do all these bloody plastic bags come from?" My younger son informed her gravely that they grew on trees at the side of the road.

Belly - I think people are so confused about environmental concerns that they would not happily accept paper bags either because of deforestation issues.

However in countries I've lived in, including England and now China, where plastic bags are no longer used in shops, you just learn to wear a backpack when going downtown or have those shopping bags which fold up into tiny packets which slip into the pocket (even in tight jeans!) or handbag.I've never left home without one for years. Its never seemed a problem
Posted by Romany, Saturday, 12 January 2008 10:16:44 PM
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