When it comes to lowering Australia's Carbon footprint both Government and the Media appear reluctant to report upon any other form of of land based power generation other than Carbon recapture with its high cost should it ever become available,Wind power which can't deliver base load power, Solar energy which can't deliver base load power, and Geothermal which can deliver base load power but is so isolated it can't be connected.

This appears to be intentional in Government reports and shows a laziness in Media reporting.

It not that base load power can't be produced, for a lower cost and zero water consumption, than any other form of base load power generation.

Its just for some reason its been kept from the public eye.

There may be reasons behind what's happening ...

It may be because Geothermal is not readily accessible in the Australian Continent due to it not being a volcanic region. (Whereas there's plenty of sunshine and wind - which is under utilised and has scope for greater development - depending on the design parameters?).

For example - changing the design of unsightly wind turbines, and
compacting solar energy production assemblies.

There are developments in domestic energy production of wind and solar power taking individual properties off the electrical grid.

So what is the alternative that the government and media should be reporting on? Other than Hot Rocks, to my mind there's only nuclear, which given that we've just elected a Labor government, is off the table.

Sylvia.

No, you are forgetting about solar thermal as the experimental plant
at Liddel power station in the Hunter Valley.
It uses solar to melt salt which is fed into a heat exchanger to
produce steam. The idea is to store the molten salt in tanks for night time use.
There is a state government web site on it.
Google solar thermal and Liddel.

Re storing CO2 or anything else underground it has already been done.
They are pumping it underground to pressurise oil wells to increase the flow.
They have been doing that for at least thirty years.
So whats new ?

Bazz

The problem with solar thermal approaches that attempt to store the thermal energy is that if the sun doesn't shine on a given day, then there is no energy to be stored. Unless the thermal reservoir has a capacity running into weeks, the system cannot function as a primary generator, and really just reduces the amount of fuel used, at considerable cost.

Sylvia.

Hello Sylvia,
I wouldn't know about that.
It is reported that there is an operational system in Spain.
Also one is being built in California.

the sun shines everyday, cloud cover reduces energy but not eliminates. geothermal from hot rocks will happen, it's just an engineering problem. wave energy has promise and is conveniently located. solar cells on every house roof can get domestic load largely off the grid.

radical reduction of greenhouse gases is a political problem, not scientific, not engineering. radical reduction may be the difference in racial survival, or at least the difference in catastrophic climate change.

if you plan to be alive 10 years from now, email every politician in turn, saying "action now! or no vote." then do it again, and again, and tell your friends. this is too serious a question to leave in the hands of politicians, but ozzies have knee-capped their power by submitting to pollie rule. at least remind them you are watching, and have cricket bat in hand.

it wouldn't hurt to mention capping population, either. that is the proximate cause of most of humanities problems.

Solar thermal plants work by having a bunch of mirrors reflecting light from the sun onto a focus. If you sit at the focus, then in each mirror you can see the sun, so it gets really hot.

Cover the sun with cloud, and at the focus you see cloud reflected in each mirror, and it doesn't get anything like as hot. After all, if you look elsewhere you also see cloud.

Putting sufficient solar cells on residences to remove their grid dependence would be ruinously expensive even before allowance is made for the batteries required to handle night time and overcast days.

Wave power is unproven despite decades of R&D. BTW, the energy in a wave is proportional to the square of its amplitude, and there isn't much energy in small waves. Most of the energy is available during storms.

Hot Rocks is the only thing other than nuclear (and continuing to burn coal, or moving to natural gas, which is limited) that even looks plausible for base load.

As for the ten year horizon, nothing we do now will make much difference in ten years. We'll have to cope with 10 years of climate change come what may.

Sylvia.

Hello Sylvia,

Example modern generators use Carbon dioxide or Helium in place of steam to supply the drive pressure.

These active gasses are cooled in the same manner as a gas fridge/freezer, so the by product of operation is Air conditioning, Chiller, Fridge or Freezer all for free.

350 megawatt steam turbine generator are 40%+ efficient, require steam at 550c heat,(ruling out non fossil fuels) evaporate 150 litres of water per second and require even more for cooling.

Modern generators use the Hydro turbine 90%+ efficient, recycle all water and the gas used to provide the water pressure.

350 megawatt generator requires 60c- which can be supplied by renewable fuel including Methane gas. They use no water.

Smaller models need much lower heat (0c-10c) and be powered by the pressure obtained by temperature difference inside and outside the house.

Methane gas is not only produced by animals but humans too, and supply lines are allready in place.

Burning Methane stops it going into the atmosphere increasing Global Warming.

There does seem to be an assumption that everyone "needs" base-load power. If it really was the case that no-one was able to perfect politically-viable technology capable of providing enough power to ensure that everyone had access to cheap electricity anytime they wanted, then there's no real reason we couldn't adapt to electricity not being universally available all the time, or at least being far more expensive in times where supply was limited by lack of sun/wind/waves/whatever.

But I suspect if Australia had to choose between that option and nuclear power, we'd go with the latter.

I think in the long run there will be many different sources of electricity.
Re wave power, there is an experimental system near Pt Kembla
and I read where they are now installing a number of other systems
along the coast, so it must have been economically viable.
Ok on the power being to the square of the wave height.
Well that is better than wind which is to the cube of the wind speed.
So they only work efficiently in a full gale.

Bit like CO2 and global warming where the effect of CO2 reduces logarithmically.
Thats why putting more CO2 into the atmosphere won't have much effect

.
the grand mother of all thermal furnace circa 1970

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_furnace

run by E.D.F. the French electricity authority " Electricite de France " , who also run the first sizable tide power generation station circa 1966

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rance_tidal_power_plant

This authority has a generation of 470 TWh that is Tera/Watt/hour
They provide cheap , plentiful power , in fact they export it to neighboring countries ,

their production is 75% nuclear , 16% hydro

anybody who talk of wind power or solar doesn't really grasp the concept of a modern society ,
" alternatives " are highly subsidized toys riding on the back of cheap power manufacturing ,
show me a solar power factory running on its own products and I will believe , but no they run on the good old fossil fueled grid , that is hypocrisy ,
as for funding research , you can research santa claus as much as you want it's not going to make toys appears on their own no matter how much you wish it or spend on it

.
personal consumption is the least of the problem even if for self absorbed city dwellers it seems to be the

Hello Randwick,

Negative side of Alternate energy also has a Positive side.

Santa Clause had a mutant Reindeer, called Rudolf.

Our elected protector is the Government!

Our Protector records Alternate Energy and Global Warming.

Deny the Truth.

Ridicule the Truth at every opurtunity.

Research the Truth to be obvious all along.

Deny the Truth.

Hide the Truth.

Riducle the Truth at every opurtunity.

The inclsion of Wave motion is but one Alternate energy of the Sea.

The sea is known to have huge River like Currents.

These rivers that perpetualy flow, can be harnessed like the Rivers that flow across land.

Alternate energy forward projection cannot be based aquired knowledge of Climate pattern.

Climate Change in Climate pattern, is unaquired in recorded history.!

Who can say the winds of a thousand years will blow today?

Alternate fuels do not have the flame temperature to Fire fossil fuelled turbines or engines.

Alternate fuels Ethanol liquid, Methane gas Fired todays turbines
take the fossil efficiency out of turbines.

This also takes out the fossil fuel.

Not emitting Carbon is cheaper than its recaputure.

Hello Wizofaus.
Chin chin, all has not yet been revealed,

During the prosperous Dark ages the Cammel herders upped the Petrol price to 40 cents a litre.

Our quick thinking elected Protector put them in their place, more efficient engines and turbines.

When you can power the Planet with a fart, we realy are part of the Smart Country.

Fossil fuels cant compete and Nucleur's the same.

Plus the double whammy of no fuel cost at all,

Rivers the most efficient and cheapest energy on land, are called Currents flowing in the waters of the Sea.

Hydro electric its called on the land, made from flowing water.

The Tides are never quite still, and that's just the top of it,

Currents like Rivers miles across untapped Hydro Energy for free.

"Wikipedia" records a supression on free energy.

Our elected "Protector" the Government new and fit wont have a bar of this.

Thats why they electors to keep the protection right

You know, all energy is free. It's just collecting it that costs money.

Sylvia.

.

Thanks Sylvia , a sensible point ,
it take energy and resources to collect energy ,
typical problem is the deep sea hydrates , huge energy potential but by the time the power has been harvested a negative power result
A bit like artichokes , they are yummy but one would starve eating them

.

Collecting energy cost nothing. hold on to a Lightening rod.

It's what we do with it after we catch a Bolt.

Only Human,

I could use some free lightning rods. Where can I get them?

Sylvia.

Sylvia

There's five available each hand, just wet one and point toward God.

Works best when standing in a puddle of water.