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The Forum > General Discussion > Enlarge you baby's brain

Enlarge you baby's brain

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steven, I'll do some thinking on evolutionary pressures on human brain size. Not likely to come up with anything though.

I understand the brain to body weight ratios are vastly different between elephant and man, but what functions do elephants have that need that much brain space- well apart from 50 000 odd muscles in their trunk and having a tail. Basic anatomy is similar- 2 eyes and ears, 4 limbs and a tongue, just all on a different scale.
It's partly why brain weight to body weight ratios are generally disregarded, that and because mice have the same ratio as man. Birds have 3 times more brain mass to body weight than humans, more to do with their overall lightness for efficient flight I'd expect.

It is interesting that some birds can master aeronautics, migrate thousands of km, build magnificent nests, sing and sometimes even talk with such a small brain volume.
Posted by rojo, Sunday, 6 January 2008 2:07:34 AM
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I'm not even sure why we're bringing other species into it.

Let's just stick to Homo Sapiens and our immediate ancestors: our cranial capacity has been on a steady track upwards for at least ten million years. I don't believe too many scientists doubt that this has been associated with a substantial increase in mental capacity.

All else being equal, the ability to stimulate a human brain to grow significantly in mass (which may or may not equate to more volume - it may simply become denser) surely has the potential to significantly increase our mental capacity, and ultimately our ability to succeed financially and otherwise. For the human race as a whole, this will hopefully prove to be ultimately a good thing, but there are definitely significant risks of social inequalities becoming even further entrenched in the mean time. And all the brain tissue in the world isn't going to help you much if this leads, as history would seem to indicate it inevitably does, to an uprising of the masses against the elite.
Posted by wizofaus, Sunday, 6 January 2008 6:15:21 AM
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Steven,

"RELATIVE TO BODY SIZE – human brains are on average six times the size of other MAMMALS (not birds but MAMMALS) of COMPARABLE SIZE"

This is incontrovertible fact. I did not debate this.

I apologise for muddying the waters by introducing the issue of avian neuroscience in relation to non homo-sapien primates.

I question whether increased brain size would lead to greater IQ; one school of thought is that environment plays a very large part (perhaps the greater part). Also having a very high IQ does not necessarily lead to success. Evidence comes from those people with high IQ's who have been institutionalised; other evidence is those of high IQ living in society, whom society would regard as failures. There have to be other issues and personal drives in place.

Gardner has identified "types" of IQ. A brilliant scientist might well not make a brilliant businessman.

Increase of brain mass could well lead to greater neural connections. My thinking is, it will be the challenges imposed from within or from outside which will count.

I suspect there is a great deal of IQ capability already available in society which is not being utilized. Perhaps it should be the other way round. Instead of increasing the size of human brains, perhaps our systems of education need to be reappraised in the light of neuroscientific discoveries.

I know a brilliant physicist who is dyslexic. Through having a phenomenal memory he passed primary school (remembering class-readers as other children read them). Only in high school, was his dyslexia picked up and accommodated. At university, he was permitted to orally dictate "writing" exams. I do not know why the dyslexia has not affected his understanding of scientific formulae ... His late father, not dyslexic, was a brilliant astro-physicist and at the cutting edge of computer technology.

I often look at people in jobs against which society discriminates, and wonder what extraordinary gifts these people might have, and whose contributions have been lost to society as a whole.
Posted by Danielle, Sunday, 6 January 2008 5:23:17 PM
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There's interesting research coming out of other animal experiments that shows just how powerful biology can be. In one recently reported study, researchers took genetic material from the brains of a group of characteristically hard-working monkeys and introduced it to another species of lazy monkeys, and the lazy monkeys became hard-working.

Snip
http://www.save-the-primates.org.au/facts-animal-experimentation.htm

http://www.shanegarton.com/Capra_7_Art_Studio/Htmls/environmental.htmls/Animal_Action/index.html

Any Comments?
Posted by People Against Live Exports & Intensive Farming, Sunday, 6 January 2008 5:56:03 PM
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"I had bought two male chimps from a primate colony in Holland.
They lived next to each other in separate cages for several months
before I used one as a [heart] donor.
When we put him to sleep in his cage in preparation for the operation,
he chattered and cried incessantly.
We attached no significance to this,
but it must have made a great impression on his companion,
for when we removed the body to the operating room,
the other chimp wept bitterly and was inconsolable for days.
The incident made a deep impression on me.
I vowed never again to experiment with such sensitive creatures."
~ Christian Barnard, Surgeon ~

Any Comments?
Posted by People Against Live Exports & Intensive Farming, Sunday, 6 January 2008 6:28:42 PM
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Firstly, I apologise to Steven and other OLO writers for going completely off topic here .... This is the only way I can address rojo ...

rojo,

If you would like to initiate a topic on non homo-sapien IQ/neuroscience, I would enjoy discussing this.

Bioscientists are also looking at other species to improve the quality of life of humans; one species does not get cancer, and there is a lot of enquiry here. Cross-species science
can be a legitimate topic.

Interesting also is what precipated the homo-sapien brain from its primate forebear.
One published scientist postulated that it was when our primate forebear began to identify poisonous, from non-poisonous snakes. This doesn't hold up at all. Calvin believed climate-change.

The gene which causes schizoprenia is also associated with outstanding creativity. A scientist on evcforum said that it seemed schizophrenia was the result of "too much of a good thing". Furthermore, this gene is a factor of being homo-sapien. It does not occur in any other primate.
http://www.evcforum.net

rojo, ... Over to you ...

I again apologise to Steven and other members here. Please accept this.
Posted by Danielle, Sunday, 6 January 2008 6:52:47 PM
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