The assassination of Benazir Bhutto in Pakistan yesterday by an Islamist extremist has caused turmoil in an already troubled country.

What happens now? Will the Prime Minister - root out the Islamist extremists as he promised on television? Mrs Bhutto was hoping to restore Democracy to Pakistan. Has that hope now gone and can the military leadership of the country be trusted?

Where do the terrorists fit into all this?

Where do we fit into all this?

Your thoughts please?

Some people leave an indelible mark on your psyche, like:
-The man who stood in front of the tanks in Tiananmen Square.
-The man who spent the best part of his life in cell 46664 and emerged without malaise, to lead a nation, or
-The woman in Burma who intimidates the military merely with her grace & forthrightness .

Benzir’s courage in returning to Pakistan in the face of threats & acts of terrorism, and her obvious intellect, touched people well outside her circle– and her death left us all the poorer.

On Thursday, we went to bed still under the glow of Christmas lights
On Friday, we were woken by the glow of street-fires and assassination,and a deep feeling of disbelief– numbness …

Why is it that we always seem to loose those we can most ill-afford to spare?

The djinn of extremism can for a short time crow over their victory –but assassination has a way of amplifying the message even as it destroys the messenger …there will be more Benazir’s –we need more Benazir’s !

It wasnt a Muslim extremist. It was a man doing what his religion teaches. He was fighting and killing infidels,including this brave woman. Anybody who speaks up for democracy and human right is against Islam.

Foxy, this is just one more step in a long road of violence and anger we have in front of us. This is Islam and the misery it brings.

Look at Pakistan. Look at what Islam has done to it and it is doing to so many countries. Look at what Muslims do when they move to the West. The so-called modertate Muslims here at OLO tell us that Islam has nothing to do with this. They tell us that these are just a few misguided souls and do not represent the real Islam (whatever that is).

Reality and common sense says otherwise.

Things are going to get worse. Pakistan will slowly (best case scenario) fall into chaos. The worse case scenario is that it will go quickly. The so-called radicals will take control because they have the Quran and ahadith on their side. Remember, as a Muslim once said here, the only reason for the existance of Pakistan is Islam.

Kactuz
http://www.kactuzkid.com

Just another one to bring out the bigots unfortunately (see above). There's a coupla muslim families at work that own shops.....they haven't blown anyone up yet.

Another tragedy in an existence loaded with tragedies.

I wish that the Forum Administrator would not mistype my original title of this thread which was spelled correctly ... "The Assassination of Benazir Bhutto - Quo Vadis Pakistan?" It is disrespectful to the subject to say the least...

I am very concerned about the future of Pakistan and where things will now lead. But I don't know what the answers are and what we can do to help?

Help?....I reckon we've done enough.

Yes I suppose you're right 'we' have done enough. In the view of the Islamic fundamentalists, foreigners, especially from the West, are a profoundly immoral and corrupting influence. And the principal foreign enemy of the fundamentalists is the "Great Satan," the United States. The fundamentalists find it politically helpful to have an alien enemy because the solidarity of any community is enhanced if it perceives a common outside threat.

The main cause of the fundamentalists' hostility to the United States, however, is that they fear the impact of American culture and political interference in their societies.

The fundamentalists regard Americans (Westerners) essentially as barbarians - but as barbarians whose economic, technological, and military influence threatens the integrity of Muslim societies and
traditions. Their own governments, they claim are often used as mere pawns in America's geopolitical strategy, a strategy in which the interests of ordinary Muslims count for nothing.

Benazir Bhutto's aim was to bring democracy to Pakistan - and she was therefore looked upon by the fundamentalists as a threat to their traditional way of life.

On the other side of the coin - to many Westerners, Islamic fundamentalism seems like an almost scandalous return to a medieval morality. It conjures forth images of women behind veils, of adulterers being stoned, of thieves having their hands cut off, of public floggings and executions, of martyrdom in holy wars, and in extreme cases, of political fanaticism exemplified by the Bhutto
assassination, aircraft hijackings, and terrorist bombings.

In many ways it is difficult for most Westerners to comprehend, Islam is a comprehensive way of life, continuously abd intensely pervading belief and behaviour, public conduct and private experience.

The very word "Islam" means "submission" to the will of Allah, who demands personal integrity, social justice, and brotherhood among believers, and who has revealed the appropriate codes of conduct in virtually every field of life, from religious to personal hygiene.

The fundamentalists aim at nothing less than the replacement of their rulers by Islamic governments, in which the distinction between the religious and the secular would disappear...

ALLAH does not demand personal integrity, social justice, and brotherhood among Muslims.... He demands killing and fighting.

Take just 3 verses from the Quran:

(9:29) Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya [poll tax] with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
(9:111)Allah has bought from the believers their lives and their money in exchange for Paradise. Thus, they fight in the cause of GOD, willing to kill and get killed. Such is His truthful pledge in the Torah, the Gospel, and the Quran...".

(8:67) It is not for a Prophet that he should have prisoners of war (and free them with ransom) until he had made a great slaughter (among his enemies) in the land. You desire the good of this world (i.e. the money of ransom for freeing the captives), but Allah desires (for you) the Hereafter. And Allah is All-Mighty, All-Wise.

In other words, Allah wants you to do tyrany/killing in the land so you can have captives. Allah also wants you to end your life (see killing and being killed above) instead of having a nice plesant life. Allah is really smart.

Here is this verse in a great site with 15 translations.
http://islamawakened.org/quran/8/67/default.htm

Foxy, Please read the Quran and hadith, or least least the newspapers. Please tell me where all that integrity and social justice that you speak of is to be found in Islamic societies. I must have missed it.

Pakistan will fall into greater chaos and violence. It is bad one way or another. Pity the good people there.

Kactuz
http://www.kactuzkid.com/lies.html

Dear Kactuz,

I have a six volume collection called, "Great Religions of Modern Man,"
edited by Richard A. Gard. The volume on "Islam," edited by John Alden Williams - is the source of my information.

Dr John Alden Williams lectures on Islamic History at the Institute of Islamic Studies, McGill University, Montreal. He is a graduate of the University of Arkansas and Princeton University (Ph.D).

Dr Williams also studied at the American University (Beirut) and the University of Munich. In addition to being a National Woodrow Wilson Fellow, he has received Fulbright and Rockefeller grants for study in various centers of Islamic civilization; he received a post-doctoral grant to study Islamic art and architecture from the American Center for Research in Cairo.

The book is divided into chapters dealing with:

1) The Qur'an: The Word of God.
2) The Hadith: The News of God's Messenger
3) The Law: Fiqh, Sharia
4) Sufism: The Interior Religion of the Community
5) Kalam: The Statements of the Theologians
6) The Dissidents of the Community

In this volume many facets of Islam are explored in the major writings of the tradition. From the revelations ("There is no God but Allah") the author takes us to the founding of the Muslim community under Muhammad the Messenger. He outlines for the reader the message of Muhammad and his role in the Muslim community.

There follow the classic writings from the Law of Islam, moral and social regulations for living the good life as a believer. The interior spirit of the community is expressed in the writings of the ascetics, the ecstatics, and the poets. Finally, there are extensive selections from the great theologians of the tradition and from dissidents of the community.

There emerges from this book a clear sense of the overwhelming unity of the tradition of Islam.

I trust that this has answered your query adequately. As you know
people can manipulate any religion to suit their own ends - especially fanatical fundamentalists...

It is probably worth bearing in mind that within living memory, Pakistan as a nation did not exist at all. It was created after decades of unrest, and following the consideration of any number of different ideas of how to solve the "nation divided by religion" problem.

Mountbatten was probably forced into a corner by i) time and ii) the limited attention that post-war Britain could allocate. Ghandi couldn't help but passively resist all along the line - his firm belief was that Hindus and Muslims should be able to live peaceably side by side.

Whatever, just sixty years ago Britain granted India its independence, upon which it created the countries we now know as India and Pakistan. Between twelve and fourteen million people moved either north or south, to find a home among their co-religionists. Half a million or so people were killed in the rush. In 1971, Bangladesh was also created out of East Pakistan, further underlining the basic instabilities. Kashmir continues to be disputed territory, etc. etc.

Why the history 101?

To point out that it might be just a little early to expect stability from such newly-created countries. Also, to point out that Ghandi was assassinated by a Hindu, Pakistan's first president Liaquat Ali Khan was assassinated by a Muslim, Zulfikar Ali Bhutto (Benazir's father) was hanged by a Muslim jurisdiction, and it appears that Benazir herself was killed by a fellow Muslim.

So it is a little premature to use the tragedy as an excuse to generate "the mozzies are coming" panic.

Thanks Pericles, as always, interesting, valid, and informative.
Much appreciated!

Yes, nice precis Pericles.

Let's just take a deep breath before announcing the beginning of World War III, eh ?

Foxy and others

See Irfan Yusuf's article in today's Age:
http://www.theage.com.au/news/opinion/fault-lines-of-a-nation/2007/12/30/1198949670794.html

This is not a simple religious struggle. Pakistan's Daily Times comments that Bhutto was just one of many targets of the far right, including Pervez Musharraf, outgoing prime minister Shaukat Aziz and outgoing interior minister Aftab Sherpao.

The religious far right in Pakistan - unlike mainstream Islamic groups- refuse to engage with the political process. Because Pakistanis have rarely shown much support to religious parties at the ballot box, 'religious parties perform well only when the military wants more secular parties locked out'.

Irfan shows - through Hindu extremism in India - that bringing religious parties into the democratic process is 'no guarantee they will behave in a civilised manner'. Indian extremists in the Indian state of Gujarat have used democracy as a means for spreading hatred of Muslims and Christians and employing extreme violence.

Irfan concludes by quoting Chicago University law professor Martha Nussbaum who sees in South Asia not a clash between civilisations but rather a clash "between people who are prepared to live with others who are different … (and) those who seek the protection of homogeneity, achieved through the domination of a single religious and ethical tradition".

Reminds me a little of the clash between the multiculturalists in Australia, prepared to encourage interaction with those who are different, and those who want to assert that there is only one Australian way of life and it must be dominant to the exclusion of all others.

Does anyone seriously suggest that the deplorable situation in
Pakistan would be the same if it was not Islamic ?

Really ? The problem is, lets face it Islam !
They cannot blame anyone else but themselves.
They will of course blame the Americans and the west in general.

This is what happens in a society that is run by their rules.
This is what happens when people generation after generation marry their cousins.

They simply cannot manage themselves, but I do not think we should
step in and help, just let them disintegrate.
They are out of fuel at present, what do you think will happen when
peak oil hits them harder than it has done already ?
The main worry is the nuclear weapons. An outside power such as India
may have to jump in and seize them before the irrationals get hold
of them. They are not capable of managing them and should not be
allowed to control them otherwise a nuclear war is almost certain.

Horus

Your eulogy for Benazir Bhutto was written before today's OLO article by Saleem M. Khan of Bloomsburg University of Pennsylvania, and a former senior advisor to Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, the first democratically-elected president of Pakistan and father of Benazir Bhutto. (http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=6816)

Your praise - 'we need more Benazir’s'; 'her death left us all the poorer' - is in stark contrast to Dr Khan's critique. His list of her alleged shortcomings is damning. Here are the key points:

* 'exhibiting little taste and patience for democracy'
* 'surrounded herself with powerful feudal and corrupt party leaders'
* 'only paid lip service to educational programs in general and female literacy in particular'
* 'the economy was largely mismanaged'
* 'poverty rose'
* 'governance standards deteriorated'
* 'preferred a lifestyle of “The Rich and Famous”'

Most damning was the claim that 'While in office, she and her husband, Asif Zardari, according to the Pakistani media and the New York Times, stole as much as $1.5 billion from government accounts.'

In Dr Khan' judgment, it was only when the USA needed her as a front for democracy in Pakistan that she re-emerged as a political force in the international media.

When she had her time as PM (twice) '...she was unable to achieve any worthwhile program for socio-economic progress.'

Sounds like many Pakistanis will not miss her at all.

The SICK thing is that both Australia and the USA continue to give millions $ in Aid to this rogue, dissembling,draconian, dictatorship with WMDs.
Bush recently proclaimed that Aid would not be cut off from Pakistan.

Dear FrankGol,

Thank you for giving me an added insight into Benazir Bhutto. It makes me look at things from a very different perspective, and now wanting to find out more ...