Christianity means many things to many people.

But one Biblical theme stands out above all others...'Love'.

This morning, as I was approaching Safeways, I almost collided with a 'chick' in bare feet, tight short skirt..and loads of makeup. As I collected myself, I noticed another girl with her from the same car. She was similarly dressed, and they both had a rather 'hardened' aura about them. Quite possibly they came from one of the 2 local brothels.. who knows. Anyway, the other one, looked at me, and then said "Hello sir.. merry Christmas"... and I gave her a friendly wave. But as I went into Safeways, I realized I'd missed an opportunity to show Christs love to unloved people..(as they seemed to me) I wanted to go back and embrace the girl.. tenderly, and say "Christmas is really about love" with a hug.

Perhaps we should remind ourselves of the central core of the faith.

For God...so Loved....that He Gave....John3:16

<<If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing.
Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.>>

Paul concludes: "Faith, Hope and Love remain, but the greatest of these, is love" (1Cor14)

Life is short. The last time I saw 'Ralph' was in the arms of an asian hooker, in a bed in Penang in 67.

Today I received this email:

<<Apparently Ralph took the dog for a walk last Wednesday evening and had a heart attack while he was out.>>

Christ-mas... a time for reflection.

Boaz, you are a funny sausage. Merry Christmas to you too and sorry about your saucy old chum.

Perhaps, in the spirit of Christmas, I could ask you to remember that love - and grace and morality and generosity and forgiveness - are not restricted to Christians. These qualities, and our very human need to try to live well, exist in all people. You can say that atheism leads to a moral vacuum till the cows come home, but we are still out there, volunteering, giving to charity, helping our neighbours and generally trying to do the right thing.

Could you extend us the generosity of clarity at Christmas?

Many secular blessings to you.

Yup what the world needs more of is love sweet love.

Centuries before christianity, Buddha taught the following to his son Rahula (from "Old path white clouds" by Thich Nhat Hahn):

"Rahula, practice loving kindness to overcome anger. Loving kindness has the capacity to bring happiness to others without demanding anything in return.

Practice compassion to overcome cruelty. Compassion has the capacity to remove the suffering of others without expecting anything in return.

Practice sympathetic joy to overcome hatred. Sympathetic joy arises when one rejoices over the happiness of others and wishes others well-being and success.

Practice non-attachment to overcome prejudice. Non-attachment is the way of looking at all things openly and equally. This is because that is. Myself and others are not separate. Do not reject one thing only to chase after another.

I call these the four immeasurables. Practice them and you will become a refreshing source of vitality and happiness for others."

I find the pragamtic philosophy of Buddhism worthwhile AND you're not expected to worship some bloke in the sky either...

Hi Botheration and Johnny
well it's always interesting what a thread like this brings out :)

B'n... all that you say is totally true. Secular or atheist folks can and do.. do all that and more.. look for example at Fred Hollows.

I didn't really raise this thread as a platform for my usual 'foundation for values' rants :), but truly that we might actually reflect on the true 'Christ'-mass message. There are many occasions which we can remember various parts of life, or have our many and varied views of religion supported or challenged.

Johnny.. on Buddha.. no argument that those things are quite reasonable.. they they even 'work'... perhaps you could benefit from seeing where that kind of thing fits into the Christian perspective by reading this link to 'Romans 2:12-16 it makes interesting reading.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=52&chapter=2&version=31

But the huge immeasurable difference between say Buddhism and faith in Christ, should be blatantly obvious to the casual observer.
Buddha died.. and stayed dead. He proclaimed no eternal hope, but more of a 'cycle' ...not quite sure what to make of it sometimes. Theravada buddhism and Zen are quite different, some is more like pure atheist philosophy/psychology and sometimes its like a kind of religion...

But.. the source of unutterable Joy for the Christian..the believer in Christ, is expressed so wonderfully in the hymn...

I serve a risen Savior,

He's in the world today;

I know that he is living,

whatever men may say;

I see His hand of mercy,

I hear His voice of cheer,

And just the time I need Him

He's always near.



(2) He lives, He lives,

Christ Jesus lives today!

he walks with me and talks with me

along life's narrow way.

He lives, He lives,

salvation to impart!

You ask me how I know He lives?

He lives within my heart.

Please all have a look at this link
http://www.tanbible.com/tol_sng/helives.htm
Its the background (and full lyrics) to that hymn.

"Love is giving, not taking, mending, not breaking, trusting, believing, never deceiving, patiently bearing and faithfully sharing,
each joy, every sorrow, today and tomorrow.

Love is kind, understanding, but never demanding. Love is constant, prevailing, its strength never failing. A promise once spoken for all time unbroken, Love's time is forever."

or put another way:

"From this day forward,
You shall not walk alone.
My heart will be your shelter,
And my arms will be your home."

A Very Happy and Joyous Festive Season to Everyone and May the New Year be A Good One!

I agree that Boazy is a "funny sausage". Despite myself, I have a strange affection for him. Go figure.

Anyway, in the gist of the thread, who can beat this:

"Love, love, love.
Love, love, love.
Love, love, love.

There's nothing you can do that can't be done.
Nothing you can sing that can't be sung.
Nothing you can say but you can learn how to play the game.
It's easy.

Nothing you can make that can't be made.
No one you can save that can't be saved.
Nothing you can do but you can learn how to be you in time.
It's easy.

All you need is love.
All you need is love.
All you need is love, love.
Love is all you need.

All you need is love.
All you need is love.
All you need is love, love.
Love is all you need.

Nothing you can know that isn't known.
Nothing you can see that isn't shown.
Nowhere you can be that isn't where you're meant to be.
It's easy.

All you need is love.
All you need is love.
All you need is love, love.
Love is all you need.

All you need is love (all together, now!)
All you need is love. (everybody!)
All you need is love, love.
Love is all you need (love is all you need).

Yee-hai!
Oh yeah!
She loves you, yeah yeah yeah.
She loves you, yeah yeah yeah."

What? CJ holds warm feelings for me? :) of course you do.. cos I speaka da truth...mostly.

Lennons song.. similar to this other one "Imagine" and with about the same depth :)

I'd hesitate to say like he did, but love has many dimensions. Clearly if we think it is love to allow a child (or a migrant) to do things we know will ultimately hurt him/her even though it gives them short term 'joy' over getting 'what they want'... then we might wanna re-think that one.

I'm holding back on too much analysis here.. similar to Dr Strangelove or Dr No.. (whichever) who had a 'hand' which got out of control and tried to choke him..... so... the 'hand of analysis is reaching up toward my throat... am fighting it off!

Lets not lose sight of one important point, that Love is in fact the central theme of both Old and New testaments.
Isaiah 40

1 Comfort, comfort my people,
says your God.
2 Speak tenderly to Jerusalem,
and proclaim to her
that her hard service has been completed,
that her sin has been paid for,
that she has received from the LORD's hand
double for all her sins.

3 A voice of one calling:
"In the desert prepare
the way for the LORD [a] ;
make straight in the wilderness
a highway for our God. [b]

Verse 3 is the prophecy about John the Baptist. He made no bones about attacking sin head on...But it is in the bigger context of.. Divine Love, as shown by the first verses. Restoration after discipline.

Boazy, if something claims it is a supreme being and expects you to worship it - then it ain't no supreme being.

Love is unconditional.

Peace and good will to all.

AAAAH Johny.. good point. I remember Maharaj Gi of the Divine Light Mission (to hell) and he accepted worship..and he then got in his rolls..which took him to his personal 747 etc... clearly.. he never raised anyone from the dead.. gave sight to the blind... healed the crippled....

BUT... someone did. And as John says of the reports in his Gospel "But these are written that you may believe, that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing, you might have life in His name" John 20:31

The Lord Jesus was amazing. Not only did he call on his disciples to deny themselves, but he set the example.. he washed their germ and dust encrusted feet...

speaking of which... the Sultan of Brunei has an interesting title by which he is addressed.

DULI, yang maha mulia.

"Duli" means 'dust' in Malay, and the rest means 'the glorious'...
so.. he has elevated himself so high that he himself is not even addressed by his subjects. They can only address the dust on his feet.

So different and authentic was our Lord. "I came not to be served but to serve"
"As the Father has sent me, so I send you"

Today at gym, I met a bloke with your name "Johnny" He is built like a tank, scary just to look at.. HUGE.. STRONG.... I asked him "Johnny, what do you do?" he replied "Lay Ashphelt"...I continued, "do you do any security work at night?" He replied "No mate..I'm a lover not a fighter" and considering he is Tongan, where there is a very strong Christian tradition, I think I know what he meant.

How wonderful it would be.. "Imagine" if we as a community, returned to 'The' Lord..as our Lord..we might be serving and washing feet, instead of screaming at people who took 'our' parking spot at the Mall.

Johnny Rotten--
I share your view re supreme beings--Spike called it grovelling.

Dear BD,

Yes it would be wonderful if ...

"Please let me live
where honesty's a way of life
and people smile -
then offer you their friendship
without guile -
where strangers find a welcome
and no-one feels alone -
where I am loved
for being me
and not for what I own - "

Digiwigi.... thanx for your contribution.. short but pointed.
I encourage you to look more closely at the Gospels and words of the Lord Jesus.

Foxy.. yes.. true.. I've only ever found that environment among Christian community, it is euphoric to say the least. They/we are not all like that all the time, (reality must be acknowledged) but I do see a remarkable difference in the Body of Christ compared to "This World".

blessings.

As long as they aren't refos, of course Boazy.

Boazy: "'Imagine' if we as a community..."

John Lennon:

"Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today...

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace...

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world...

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one"

[ Apologies - just continuing the theme from my earlier post and Boazy's response to it :) ]

I so did not want to be the one to throw the spanner into the midst of this lovefest. Kept waiting for someone else to point this out...but BD, I am appalled at the self-righteous, smug and blatant judgementalism of your original post. As you go on through the thread casting texts and verses and smiley faces I become more so.

So these two women you encountered were not dressed in a manner you deem proper to "decent" women, huh? Bare feet? "Hardened"? Well yeah..gotta have been whores then. And the only adjective that goes with "whore" is "Godless"...yeah? So all they needed to save them from their wicked ways was a hug from you?

How dare you assume that persons about whom you know absolutely nothing are less "godly" than you?

I know a woman who looks "hardened"; has bleached blond hair and rarely wears shoes either. Her doors are open to the poor, the homeless, the neglected. She works tirelessly with the police to save kids from the streets.

I know an old aboriginal woman confined to a wheelchair who takes in sexually abused kids of all races and fights tooth and claw for a fair go for them... she also looks pretty "hardened". Seen her without shoes too.

I know a fat woman with stringy hair and missing teeth who chainsmokes and has so many lost souls living in her house that she now houses some in tents in the backyard.

And all three of these women are devoted, church-going Christians. They truly believe thier god is love and live their lives accordingly. And they don't exclude muslims, or refugees, or homosexuals, or pregnant teenagers. They have never laid a hand on anyone in violence - including their own children "for their own good".

Btw: the original translation in the King James was "And the greatest of these is Charity". Charity and love are not synonyms. I feel it absolutely impossible to feel love for you BD, but I do feel charity towards you. There is a difference.

Boaz, you are so priggish sometimes.

>>Foxy.. yes.. true.. I've only ever found that environment among Christian community, it is euphoric to say the least. They/we are not all like that all the time, (reality must be acknowledged) but I do see a remarkable difference in the Body of Christ compared to "This World"<<

You really need to get out more, you know.

p.s. "prig n. A person who demonstrates an exaggerated conformity or propriety, especially in an irritatingly arrogant or smug manner."

I now feel guilty I didn't say what Romany did. I thought it, but tried to tap into the Christmas spirit. But there is a lot of hypocricy and spiritual patronising in what you've written.

Out of interest, do you see it?

Romany (and Botheration)
well.. I can see where you are coming from, yes.. but this is one of those situations where I have to 'appeal to the Emperor' as Paul did.

What you are doing, is confusing a 'general observation and assumption based on a lifetime of reality' with 'judgmentalism'...

I agree.. saying 'possibly from the local brothels' may seem judgmental, but truely.. I was not seeking to do so, I'm prepared to argue this, because I didn't say that in any remote sense of them being less 'worthy' than me, I learnt long ago that to use myself as the reference point in evaluating others is firstly unbliblical, and secondly all of the things you (and Pericles) said "Arrogant, smug" etc. But I don't hold back from comparing ALL of us to the Lord.

I was trying to paint a picture of what I saw.. and how it appeared, not denouncing them. No.. a hug from me would definitely not be the answer to all their problems or issues of life, but I can tell you one thing, if life has kicked you around from pillar to post (and that usually shows in a persons demenour) a hug is surely not a bad move.

You see.. Romany and Pericles.. (and a partial from Botheration) you folks have actually done the very thing you claim I did.. 'judged me' :)

But its all good.. I didn't write the piece for any other reason than to promote reflection (in myself as well as others) on the theme of love itself, and it's connection to the central heart message of Christ-mas.
blessings to you all.

Like it or not, we're all judged by the way we look, to a certain extent. But, in keeping with the spirit of the Festive Season and the
theme of 'Love' of this thread I'll keep it light and tell you a story:

An old man was sitting at a bus-stop patiently waiting for a bus,
when up walked a teenager with the most outrageous haircut ever.

Not only was it a giant mohawk, it was done in these brilliant
multi-coloured layers, from yellows, oranges, greens, reds, blues,
whites, and even blacks.

Anyway, the young man sat down next to the old man on the bench,
and very aggressively said, "What are you looking at?"

The old man just sat there and stared at the young man.
The young man got even more annoyed because the old man hadn't
replied. Again he asked, "What are you looking at, you old fart?"

Again, the old man continued to sit and stare at the young man.

The young man was getting angrier by the lack of response from the
old man. So, he leaned towards the old man and shouted in his ear,
"What's the matter, you deaf? I bet you haven't seen anything like
me before, eh?"

And, this time the old man, cleared his throat and in a quiet
distinct voice replied, "Oh yes, I have laddie, that's why I'm
staring at you. I once shagged a parrot, and I'm wondering if you're
my son!

It's a fine line, Boaz.

>>You see.. Romany and Pericles.. (and a partial from Botheration) you folks have actually done the very thing you claim I did.. 'judged me':)<<

Not really. To use your own words:

>>What you are doing, is confusing a 'general observation and assumption based on a lifetime of reality' with 'judgmentalism'... <<

Have a great day

Dear Botheration,

I meant to reply to your post earlier. Yes, I did see it. But I got into the Christmas spirit theme instead - which is what I believe Boazy meant for us to do.

Don't feel guilty. I think Romany is over-reacting just a tad.
Her post surprised me by its emotion - I think she must have been
having a bad day. Not her usual self at all.

Yeah well...bad day, bad week. All mid-December means here is that we are starting exam period: papers to set; angst-ridden undergraduates to mediate between, invigilating duties, temperatures never out of single figures and what appears to be a double abcess in my mouth. Cant eat, much pain, can't swallow properly, and now inflamed throat so lectures are a nightmare. Boo-hoo.

So yeah, I try normally to be objective and not write personal stuff but, having got that lot off my chest I can honestly say I don't regret it. I expect I sound like some Scrooge-y bah-humbug type right now because, yes, my timing is right off. This post just happened to be the straw that broke this particular camels back.

Or perhaps none of the above actually has any bearing on the matter and I AM am turning into an actual Scrooge-y bah-humbug type after all?

Anyway, enjoy the silly season: and if the Muzak Xmas songs are driving you crackers? Just try to imagine what its like in the land where the only musak we're hearing is The Back Street Boys and Celine Dion. (Exit stage left, clutching head and screaming "The Voices, the Voices.")

Welcome back Romany - no, you're not turning into scrooge. I was finishing up my Christmas shopping yesterday and I was in Myers here in Melbourne, when I commented on the music being played throughout the store.
The salesgirl pulled a face, and said, "If I hear jingle-bells one more time ... try listening to it being played over and over again, all day!"

I'm having a few problems as well. Apart from my health - being lousy at the moment (I've got good days and bad) I've got two parents galloping towards their 90s (one with alzeimers). One in a high-care nursing home - who can't speak due to a stroke. My two sons and their partners, their in-laws, all at my place for Christmas Eve (European tradition - traditional food etc), and Christmas Day lunch. And its all on me, with thankfully my husband's help, to make sure that everyone has a Merry Christmas. No pressure.

Thanks for all your inputs into my threads during my time on the forum
you've been great and I've enjoyed them. Have a good holiday and here's to a good year 2008! Take care.

Christmas is a reminder that the incarnation of the spirit of the eternal God is in human flesh. We through our devotion are showing admiration of the character of God whose image we see revealed in man. Character we ourselves desire to emulate as the highest. The highest of those aspirations of that character are self-sacrifice for the salvation of others. Serving others unconditionally.

We by our focus worship the spirit that gives to the real needs of others who are poor in spirit and lost. He taught us the greatest among you should be your servant, not the one sitting on the throne demanding accolades of praise from poor subjects. Our God is not as Johnny Rotten or digiwigi imagine. He is incarnate in human character, attitudes and actions that we admire as supreme purity. These character traits are eternally admired, as the ancients spoke of and Buddah later adored.

True Love is the sacrifice of oneself for the blessing of a truely needy one. Endeavour to bless someone this Christmas with true charity.

Christmas is a reminder that the incarnation of the spirit of the essential human is in excessive consumption of food, drink and material possessions. However, the annual orgy is redeemed by the fact that people become uncharacteristically friendly and charitable to each other for the 'silly season', thus demonstrating that it is possible after all for humans to get along together.

Despite my cynicism about this largely superficial annual ritual, I'm not churlish enough to wish to deprive others of their jollies. Besides which, like most retail businesses, this is by far the most profitable time of year for mine :). Believe it or not, yesterday I was prevailed upon to don a hot and silly red suit and fake white beard in order to play Santa at the local pub. And of course a great time was had by all, particularly the kids.

Foxy's post reminds me of a news snippet I heard last year about a shop assistant in Austria (I think) who sued the shopping centre in which he worked for mental cruelty, due to its incessant playing of muzak Christmas carols. I can relate to that!