Being Australian is different things to different people. For people like me it is the be all and end all! Its my everything.

For the refugee who got off the plane last weeks its free housing free food dole payments and security! For many others it’s a cash cow for them to earn money in Australia and then to go back to their country of origin and live like kings!

Others look at Australia as a place where they can get a good education and life style for there children (nothing wrong with wanting that) but forming ethnic ghetto’s getting a satellite link to there “home” countries news/entertainment network and only dealing with main stream Australia when they want health care, education or some other sort of benefit which is not readily available in the country they left. These people only want to be treated as an Australian when it suits them.

Citizenship ceremonies are mealy that! Just ceremonies! Talk is cheap, deeds are everything!

"We've always rejected the use of violence, intimidation and humiliation as ways to settle conflict in our society."

Interesting statement Foxy. I think it might depend on your point of view of Australia. We do after all celebrate our "diggers" - strong link to violence (although our celebration is based more around resilience and tenacity of spirit). And the comment makes it obvious that you grew up in the city and didnt read much about "the outback". On the other hand I have grown up around shearing sheds, and listened to and read plenty of stories of drunken brawls, and fisticuffs to settle scores. So, I dont really agree with your comment - I think it is a very rose-coloured view of our society both now and in the past, and one that comes from the comfort of living in a "good" suburb.

Have to agree that, in a country which began as a rough, cruel outstation for human beings I also thought Foxy's remark a little peculiar.

From the unspeakable cruelties of the convict age, through to the treatment (ongoing) of the original inhabitants, The Eureka Stockade, bushrangers, the White Australia policy and the treatment of immigrant "wogs, chinks, towel-heads and lebs.", I admit I have never seen Australia in quite the same light as that described by Foxy.

I do understand she is perhaps trying to illustrate the "fair go" ethos, but still it seemed a strange choice of qualities with which to try to define what being Australian was? Or am I looking at things with a jaundiced eye?

Pericles raises an interesting point with his recollection of when, long ago, whilst already having the status of British subject, he was required to swear loyalty to the Sovereign in taking up Australian citizenship, a requirement that he had never had placed upon him in the UK. His experience is shared by many native-born Australians in a curiously inverted way.

One of the times you might especially expect to have to swear such an oath, or make such affirmation, is upon entering into military service. 20 year old Australian men, chosen in a birthdate ballot under the Selective National Service legislation of the mid-1960s were required to present themselves for military service for two years full time, and subsequently three years part time. The vast majority did so; I was one of them. To my surprise, there was no swearing in.

For many years I thought it to be either an act of gutlessness, or one of presumptuous arrogance, on the part of the government of the day that we were not sworn in. I remember I felt cheated at the time, for I regarded the oath (the real one, not the unconstitutional rubbish one of recent years) as a recognition of the equal status and obligation of all Australians, politicians of the day (perhaps especially) included, with respect to the law and our constitutional heritage, which is embodied in our constitutional monarchy.

Many years passed before I realised that no swearing-in was strictly necessary for conscripted Australian-born servicemen. In the absence of any overt act or utterance to the contrary, their loyalty was to be, rightly, presumed. It's different if you are volunteering for service, or standing for election: you may have, or be suspected of having, ulterior motives in doing so. Hence the requirement for an express oath or affirmation.

Pericles was cheated, too, I suggest. In his case, the fact that his new Australian citizenship in reality represented a downgrading of his status to below that of a politician was intended to be disguised by the administration of the proper oath.

Perhaps I am looking at life through rose-coloured glasses. It's been my means of survival over all these years. As for living in a "well to do suburb." Well I grew up in the Western suburbs of Sydney - in a small fibro house surrounded by vegetable farms. My dad worked in a rubber factory and mum in a spinning mill. Both worked double shifts to pay off the house. Our biggest treat was when dad would buy us a block of chocolate on pay day.

When I said that Australians reject the use of violence, intimidation and humiliation as ways to settle conflict in our society I was referring to what I had been brought up to believe to be the values
that are central to Australia remaining a stable, prosperous and peaceful cummunity.

I was speaking in generic terms of what I felt this country's core values were.

Foxy,
Although I believe It would be in our best interests to dramaticly reduce immigration, I do not think we have a problem with immigrants.

Our problems is with people of some cultures, be they immigrants or born here. Some of these are second or even third generation but their anti-social and unlawful behavior is handed down. Take the Croats and Serbs, they hate and fight over issues centuries old and half the world away. The Lebs that caused the problems at Cronulla were at least second generation born here but their anti-social behavior, particularly to girls, falls far short of acceptable standards in our society.

These groups, and others that carry out beliefs and activities such as cock fighting, forced arranged marriages, FGM, suppression of women, eating of prohibited foods clearly believe their cultural activities are more important than our laws and standards. They are unwilling or unable to integrate with the rest of our community.

Prospective immigrants need to be fully informed about our society before they arrive here and integration assesment carried out to stop those coming that have shown to be the cause of problems. I think many migrants have not been fully or acurately informed about Aus and get a shock on arrival to seen the difference. If they cannot integrate they cannot be happy here.

The multicultural policy gave the false impression that all groups could get along with each other and we would adapt to their cultural ways. 'Unity in diveraity' is truely a furphy. Not all cultures are compatable. If our aim is to have a cohessive society then we must have a discriminatry immigration process.