Dear Foxy
wow.. you kind of did a "Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire" in 700words there... but in your very broad brushstrokes.. you didn't really nail down some very important points.

You did the very thing you discouraged in others...about selectively misusing texts.

The biggest of your errors was the use of Jesus words wildly out of context.. showing your need to knuckle down and look more closely at your subject matter before making epic like statements.

Contextually.. 'I came not to bring peace but a sword' can only be understood ONE....way (and I don't mean 'my' way) as demanded by the context. Jesus was clearly saying that when one enters the kingdom of God.. OTHERS will use the sword against them.. including one's own family.

On Deuteronomy, (or Joshua/Judges) etc.. there was absolutely ZERO endorsment of 'general' genocide in Gods name, but it DOES include specific, time and people related judgment. There is a heck of a difference. No one could use Deuteronomy to justify 'genocide' in Gods name today unless... like Hitler.. .they simply 'wanted' to.

Finally your grave error in regard to Islam, the Quran stating that 'to take one innocent life' etc... is grossly misleading and shows you have not yet learned a key Islamic theological concept "Innocent".

Here is 'an example' a Muslim understanding of that word.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YSOJ6zwDCo

Notice his qualifier "who has no RIGHT to do so" .... what 'right' ? :) *think* why do they add this? to get Mohammad offfff the hoook. Because he KILLED people.

Did Jesus ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6Vp_mSKb8U

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQLpG5b18pk "We start with your cross, we end with your BLOOD" (UK)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maHSOB2RFm4 "As far as we are concerned 'innocent' people are.. MUSLIMS"

Please take the time to actually hear this Muslims speak. Then... re-read what you wrote.
No matter how peaceful the majority are THESE ones are a threat of the word kind.

IMPORTANT. When the communists took Russia, they were few. Less than 10% get it?
Warning of the dangers of small groups of radicals does not tar all Russians or Muslims with the communist/radical brush.

FOXY.. find some muslim cleric, or knowledgable Muslim, and ask:

"What is the worst sin against God?"

Answer will be 'SHIRK'....

I'll leave it to you to sus that out, but be fully informed, that every Christian is 'guilty' of it AND so...are YOU.... so what does that tell you about the potential for future conflict ?

http://www.allaahuakbar.net/shirk/index.htm

Now..find Surah 9:29 and see especially verse 30 and see what it says.

http://www.ummah.net/what-is-islam/quran/noble/nobe009.htm

Do you wish to be humiliated, subjugated and subjected to a 'tax' simply because you are not Muslim ?

Do you wish to live under a regime which prohibits you from exercising free speech and conscience about your own faith ?

How would you feel if the LAW said "You can be spoken TO about the 'official' faith, but you canNOT speak to Muslims about your own"
(welcome to Malaysia, Saudi Arabia and many others)

These points are 'Islam101' they are not some wierd fantasy interpretation of selective verses taken out of context. You can see them urself.

How brilliant do you need to be, to work out that if Christians and Jews are 'CURSED' because of their core beliefs, then the 'curse' has nothing to do with 'history' but everything to do with the basic standpoint of the faith. i.e... 9:30 is connected to the concept of...SHIRK.

If you feel I'm wrongly understanding these things, by all means show how and why. But puh-lease.. be specific.. don't just ramble with a heap of broaaaaad generalizations.

Nice analysis Foxy. Unfortunately, however, you seem to have instigated some kind of apoplexy in our resident Q'uranic scholar.

Actually, I reckon Boazy would make a great imam :)

Dear Boaz David,

I hope that I haven't upset you too much. I take what you say very seriously - because I believe that you're sincere and mean well.

It is human instinct to organize into groups. For most of us, this sorting process is largely passive. The groups to which we belong are part of our inheritance and culture - a consequence of where we were born and how we were raised. Nature allows us to choose neither our parents nor our place of birth, limiting from the outset the groups with which we will ever after identify.

True, some of us will weigh competing philosophies and convert from one religion to another out of spiritual enlightenment or intellectual and emotional conviction.

Some will find reason to shift allegiance from one country to another. But, more often we will remain within the same general categories we dropped into at birth or, in my case, the categories where events beyond our control have placed us.

Logically, then, our differences should not matter so much. People in diverse nations and faiths ought to be able to live in harmony.
However, the gap between what ought to be and what actually is has been a recurring source of drama throughout human existence.

I believe that our inherent shortcomings notwithstanding, we can still hope to create a better future.

Dear CJ Morgan,

Thanks for your comments (smile).

Thank You For This Thread.

We will never have those brave soldiers and men and women again.

Be thankful for the years of freedom they gave us because those days are getting closer to being in the past.

There was no question of loyalty to Australia back then.

We will remember them with pride and should hang our heads at the same time for rolling over to other demands.

Such as not saying the lords prayer in all our schools and singing God Save the Queen in line up.

They shall not grow old.

Nor will the future generation if we do not remember what these men did for us and `why.`

Lets We forget