“And no, I do not think that each case should be look at individually.”

Wow. That is truly extraordinary Foxy.

So you think that the full spectrum of paedophilic offences should incur the same level of community loathing and the same penalties, so long as penetration is involved? Would this include the thousands of paedophiles who are voyeurs looking at images but never perpetrating a physical action upon a child themselves? Would it include an 18 year old male who has sex with his 17 year old girlfriend (or 16 and 15, depending on the age of consent)? How about a 35 year old and a 17 year old?

“I am entirely on the side of the victim”

Well, that is not the entirely best position to hold. Sure you need to be on the side of the victim, but you should also be mindful of the circumstances that led a perpetrator to offend, and give them some sympathy and understanding, if they deserve it, which they often do to some extent.

I think that there is a very unfortunate aspect to your polarised view on this; the offender gets nothing other than complete disdain and the victim gets 100% of the support. Well, things are not always that black and white….and every case needs to be carefully looked at to determine just how black and white it is.

“The only weapon that we currently have is the law.”

No. We have much more than the law. Education, both of kids and parents, and neighbourhood watch programs and the like which encourage everyone do their community policing duty and look out for suspicious characters.

If would-be offenders know that kids and their parents are tuned into the dangers and that the whole community is looking out for potentially dangerous strangers, then their room to move is greatly reduced.

Lugwig, Bronwyn, thanks to you both for your efforts to bring some balance to this discussion. Given the extremity of the social stigma attached to this issue it takes courage and integrity to stand up and call for some balance.

The willfull abuse of children is foul in whatever form it comes. I don't get how some seem able to ignore or excuse certain types of abuse which does real harm to children and then suggest because there is a sexual element to another type of abuse that it is as bad as abuse can be.

Is the parent who physically tortures their child (burning with cigarette butts etc) committing a lesser crime than the person who looks at pictures of kids on the web?

Is the parent who destroys their childs self esteme by continual emotional abuse always doing less harm than those who sexually abuse a child?

Are parents who choose to involve their kids in disputes with the other parent somehow less to blame than someone who harms a child in other ways but with a similar level of harm to the child?

The main difference I see is that the person who is an abuser of their own kids may not pose a risk to my child, the serial paedophile may. The abuse can be as willfull and as harmful to the children concerned and is therefore as repugnant.

R0bert

Wow, look where this thread's gone! Interesting arguments from all concerned.

I think on the issue of paedophilia my own position is somewhere between Bronwyn's and Ludwig's :) There certainly seems to be a bit of a 'moral panic' about it of late, and I am sometimes dubious about the inclusion of some kinds of sexual relations - such as those to which Ludwig alludes - as constituting the most reviled of crimes,

Further to the interesting and useful consideration of the nuances of one of our culture's most reviled categories, the departure of the discussion from its implicit association with refugees is also pleasing.

A poor start, perhaps - but ultimately an interesting discussion :)

Foxy

Thank you for your apology. We'll probably have to agree to disagree on this one but it's been a good debate. I was only drawn into it in the first place because of the reference to refugees and yet I've spent most of the time discussing paedophiles!

I agree it's a difficult topic. It does seem like a botttomless pit and you're right for every answer there's always another question. But I think we owe it to the victims just the same to keep asking those questions no matter how hard they might seem.

Like you, my sympathy is very much for the victims and I agree offenders should be punished. I just see many more shades of grey in this debate than you do, that's all. And while I'm not in any way excusing the abhorrence of the crime, I do think it needs to be remembered that perpetrators are very often victims as well.