The federal government and the fine men and women of ASIO etc may not like this but I would like to nominate Chen Yonglin for a major award.
I really believe Chen Yonglin did Australia a wonderful service in deserting his post at the Chinese Embassy/consulate to expose the 1,000 Chinese spies China had established on Australian soil.
His treatment at the time was abominable and I really think he deserves more than he got for his services to Australia.
The federal government seems to fear China more than it fears us.
We had a right to know what was quielty going on! How can we resist enemies if government always has a paper bag over our heads?
What say you folk?

He's a traitor. How would you feel if some Australian did the same to Australians, putting all of their lives at risk?

steel, shame on you!

"my country, right or wrong" is the excuse of nazis, 'ethnic cleansers', and every variety of thug in uniform that disgrace humanity.

'traitors' are not necessarily villains, neither are they commonly virtuous. ethical human beings make decisions based on individual circumstances, not by following 'der fuerher'.

chen youglin may simply have decided to expedite a p. r. visa by doing oz a favor, or so he thought. no virtue there, nor any great sin either.

the state department probably already knew what chen had to say, roughly, unless they are even greater fools than is visible. chen embarrassed oz government by saying in public what state already suspected, but chose to live with. chen's 'crime' is simply to expose the mix of hypocrisy and incompetence that is the usual standard in oz government. the government is a little embarrassed, but ordinary ozzians are always better off when light is shined on their master's activities.

Steel. Its not an ordinary government we are dealing with when we speak of China. DEMOS is correct to point out your rather aggressive attitude.
This is a darkness government that has been heavily involved in a dance with satans evil spirit powers all through their history.
The persecution of their born again christians has been huge. When China invaded Tibet there was stories coming out of christians being crucified and having nails driven through their eyes because they wouldnt give up their faith.
*What has Australia done since Chen Yonglins revelations? Id love to know? Did we roll over and go back to sleep. We do in national defence every day as the great asian armies to Australias north build and build and build. 1,000 Chinese spies is a network. Not just a few guys here and there with box-brownies. Its a system, intelligence drop off and pick up points, books of codes, secret names and addresses, as Chen said... ships coming into Australia waters to pick up dissidents they have kidnapped. Its millions of dollars of spying on Australians and Australian military establishments. By now China will have measured the length and the breadth of this great, wonderful wide country of ours, taken thousands of high definition photographs, even bought out military personnel (an easy job for China as so many defence folk are bound to lusts and addictions)...I reckon maybe bought out the odd high ranking government official as well. Its a vast system, not just a simple headline in the Daily Telegraph with the words "1,000 spies". I reckon Australia really needs the people in on this. Those spies are here for one reason which Ive mentioned a few times before...they want their soldiers here one day to claim Australia as NEW SOUTH CHINA or NEW CHINA. We need the people aroused. We need a citizens home guard defence force not just a puny 38,000 or so military personnel. A good read of John's Revelation (9:16 and 16:12) shows whats coming to asia/south east asia... and maybe good old, sunny old Australia.

I agreed with your first post gibo.

Your second was more religious tripe and I couldn't read beyond the second line.

Be prepared for the fact that the moment you start spouting rubbish about demons, intelligent people will either ridicule you or stop listening.

Youre just "anti" TRTL.
The fact that demon powers are in control of much on earth is not disputed...not by the christian church community...only by those who remain unenlightened by their stubborn refusal to accept the Holy Bible as truth.
Theres enough evil on the earth, and growing because of the evil spirit panic that time is running out...for anyone to see.
Anti is dumb... to remain dumb on the truth about demon powers over many years observing things getting worse is dumb and dumber. If the Bible say theres a war on (Ephesians 6:12-18) Im happy with that. Remember, like many born againers...Ive seen satans rats.

"satans rats"?!?

How do you tell satan's rats from everyday, regular rodents? Please tell me more Gibo.

Does the old horned one have other animals? I guess he'd need cats to control the rats...

Waiting in antipation....

Seeing demons is not all that uncommon Johhny Rotten.
People in third world countries have contact with them very frequently.
You didnt know this? Evil spirit powers control villiage life for many people. They are forced to appease the evil spirit powers by putting food out for them and giving them the worship they hunger for... so they (the people) can get peace of mind.
Its all about power. Everything whether in the physical or the spirit world is about power. Wise men stay out of "power" unless God extends it for a purpose.
Where have you guys been? Distracted from what really goes on, on earth?
Some christians may have contact with satan "rats" (rats may also be mantis', snakes, lizards, half creatures of many types...christian bookshops have much literature on evil spirits.) from time to time as they attack during the sleeping hours. Not all experience this type of thing though, which is good. Just the few. When christian missionaries go to third world countries casting out of evil spirits is common. Some people writhe like snakes as the demon comes out at the name of Jesus. Anything Ive said about evil spirit powers is nothing unusual in committed christian circels, for those who help others get set free. The fact you chaps dont believe is because you are too sensory minded. If you cant touch it or see it you dont have faith in it. Aint that true?

Dear Gibo,

I agree with you. Seeing demons is not that rare... To many of us,
every time John Howard and his team, gives us their usual 'spin' instead of answering a question. Every time time they use 'fear' as a political weapon, instead of giving us concrete current policies. Everytime they throw money at us - thinking we can be bought - their halos slip...

DEMOS: ""my country, right or wrong" is the excuse of nazis, 'ethnic cleansers', and every variety of thug in uniform that disgrace humanity.
'traitors' are not necessarily villains, neither are they commonly virtuous. ethical human beings make decisions based on individual circumstances, not by following 'der fuerher'."

Yes, you're right about that.

Gobsmacked Steel. Your first post is as bizarre as any by Gibo. Does truth have no currency for you? You chose the current Chinese regime over your own country. Just bizarre.

Gibo: if you can't touch it or see it, you don't believe in it. Ain't that true?

Nope. I believe in radio waves, wireless internet and the foolishness of fundamentalists. I also believe in things like hope, love, fear, ignorance and the way these things are used to manipulate others.

I even think it's possible there's a god, though not in the simple sense of an intelligent deity with a guiding hand.

What I don't believe, is that some sheila in a random garden bit an apple, and we're all suffering for it.
What I don't believe, is that any respectable god could torture some poor bloke named Job to win a bet.
What I don't believe, are the weasel words of people who shirk their duty to think for themselves, in favour of ancient words in a book that was written by superstitious people of an age where things like witchcraft and demons were given credence - when any rational person realises that these things are foolishness, plain and simple.

I have a great deal of respect for christians, however I have very little for fundamentalists of any stripe, especially those who think that their beliefs mean they can hide in a fantasy world away from the real problems of real people, instead painting a rosy world where they can fight simpler battles, that require naught but self-imposed ignorance as their weapon.

The fact that in this day in age, in a first world country, people with such primitive beliefs can exist in spite of all the knowledge humanity has strived to attain, is quite depressing.

You should read Genesis TRTL. Its a wonderful book and one day, when you get born again, The Holy Spirit will reveal it as truth. That will be a good day.

palimpsest: "Gobsmacked Steel. Your first post is as bizarre as any by Gibo."

Perhaps you should think beyond your unitary existence.

> "Does truth have no currency for you?"

Yes. Your point?

> You chose the current Chinese regime over your own country. Just bizarre."

How so?

It's quite common throughout history to view traitors as scum. Would you trust someone who sold their mother into slavery or a liar and criminal? Here's a great example:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curveball_%28informant%29#Criticism.2C_investigation.2C_and_damage_control

The irony here, is that you would despise an Australian who did this to Australia in the same way. How would you feel if an Australian did this to his fellow agents and was given an award in China? Don't be a hypocrite.

sorry Steel, didn't realise you were a Chinese national.

Do you want to dis. whistle blowers too, because they betray their group?

palimpsest
> "sorry Steel, didn't realise you were a Chinese national."
How am I a Chinese national? (for the second time) What was that you said about truth and currency?

> "Do you want to dis. whistle blowers too, because they betray their group?"
A whistleblower is different. For one, they are exposing the corruption of government to their own people. They are not betraying their countrymen to a foreign power. Of course you already know this.

Gibo - you assume I haven't. There's your first mistake.
You then assume I need to believe it's more than words on a page - there's your second.

You also demonstrate time and time again how you're unable to actually communicate with people without retreating into scripture or dogma that only those of your faith take seriously.
You're incapable of intelligent philosophical discussion. You've leased your reasoning out to dogma instead.

Third strike. You're out.