mjpb: "In some areas though women seem to be somewhat disadvantaged. Take pornography. Women seem to be considered a male erotic tool. How many three somes with two males indulging and entertaining a woman do you see in mainstream porn? Or how about some current news where an 18 year old is labelled a boy in an outrageous pack rape and even the prosecutor doesn't think the culprits should be significantly punished. Oops an understandable mistake? Boys will be boys? Give me a break."

Until that comment, I had considered mjpb to one of the more reasonable Christians in this forum. However, in linking the neurotic Christian repression of sexuality with contemporary feminism, s/he relegates herself to the unfortunate company of Boazy, runner and all the other purse-lipped and miserable wowsers.

What is this Christian obsession with pornography? mjpb certainly seems more familiar with its genres than one might expect from someone who disapproves of it.

And what on earth does it have to do with CG's intelligent and reasonable initial post?

mpjb:
> "In some areas though women seem to be somewhat disadvantaged."

Premise noted.

> "Take pornography. Women seem to be considered a male erotic tool."

Lets assume you are correct and that women don't enjoy pornography (which they do, of course). What is your point? I don't see a problem with that.

1. Sex is a product, like anything else.
2. Women CHOOSE to sell their bodies.
3. Women ENJOY this employment.
4. Women ENJOY giving men pleasure in this way.
5. Women DO NOT PAY FOR men to do the same.
6. Men are biologically in different ways to women. That means they get a greater sexual reward than women when viewing explicit pornography. It's a fact of nature.

So are women going to start taking some responsibility for their choices or are you going to blame everything on men like a classical feminist? I see women being employed on behalf of their MALE clients.

> "How many three somes with two males indulging and entertaining a woman do you see in mainstream porn?"

How many women or feminists consume pornography and put their money where their mouths are? There isn't a demand and as long as there isn't one, you will have to make do with what millions of other hypocritical Christian women (with their Values) enjoy with their Chrisitan husbands on a weekly basis. Btw, the qualifier of "mainstream" porn there kind of nullifies your point anyway, since it implies there is some available.

> "how about some current news where an 18 year old is labelled .................... Give me a break."

No. You haven't cited any source and are resorting to an emotional plea.If anyone is disadvantaged by gender laws, it's men.

Now about the premise... you have it backwards. Women disadvantage themselves by not exercising their power as a consumer. Perhaps it's because men have a larger biological payoff and hence place a higher monetary value on pornography. Perhaps it's because women have been brainwashed by Classical Feminism. Or it's a combination of both.

Wellll CJ.. I see you are up to form on the personal abuse stakes again :)

[neurotic Christian repression of sexuality with contemporary feminism, s/he relegates herself to the unfortunate company of Boazy, runner and all the other purse-lipped and miserable wowsers.]

"Purse lipped" ? (interesting image) http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-pur2.htm

"Miserable Wowser" ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wowser
"one whose overdeveloped sense of morality drives them to deprive others of their pleasures."

"Repression of sexuality" ?

Good grief. But ur right.. on the 'repression of sexuality' WHEN it happens to be of a deviant kind. YES..I am an absolute wowser at the thought of humans having sex with animals, males with males.. females with females..parents with their own children.....

If that qualifies me as a 'wowser' and 'repressing sexuality' then I'll take that Label happily. But the other side of the coin is...what does criticizing my stand on these things make.....'you' ?

Country Gal...

FEMINISM IS A DIRTY WORD.... gotcha :) well.. it is.. in the sense that it should never have been neccessary. Sadly, the felt need for it, is just another symptom of a society alienated from its Creator,and stumbling though the moral and social darkness and taking positions on human relationships which relfect not "love" but.. power.
If the men of Emily Pankhursts day, were the self sacrificing, loving, giving, sharing, supporting husbands, fathers and friends that the Bible clearly shows they ought to be.. why would women ever feel repressed, disadvantaged or excluded ?

Again.. the better response to unfair or unjust treatment of women, would have been simple repentance...not feminism

What was that you were saying about an intelligent conversation, Country Girl?

BOAZ... I'm assuming you left out the parts about marriage in that diatribe on sexuality.

Steel,

Don’t feel ignored. Even though you actually put forward a coherent argument rather than a curious emotive response there is a word limit and CJ’s post was more enticing.

CJ,

”... linking the neurotic Christian repression of sexuality with contemporary feminism”

I don’t believe that I did that. I simply cited pornography as an example where attitudes toward women are demonstrably unfavourable. I compared ménage a trios quite objectively to show the disadvantage. You are correct that I am a Christian and I don’t believe that ménage a trois are great in the first place nor do I condone pornography but my Christian values didn’t rate a mention.

“s/he relegates herself to the unfortunate company of Boazy, runner and all the other purse-lipped and miserable wowsers.”

Sticks and stones CJ. I had to laugh when I read that. I bet that is the first time the ubiquitous Boazy has been described as purse lipped (SILENT and disapproving).

”What is this Christian obsession with pornography?”

To be honest I thought my post would make me appear more obsessed with the pack rape 44 words on pack rape cf. 29 on porn according to my computer’s word count. Are you sure you are not filtering your interpretation too heavily through pre-conceived ideas? Is it possible you are prejudiced?

”And what on earth does it have to do with CG's intelligent and reasonable initial post?”

The observation that most of the big battles have been won needs to be contextualized as there have been gains and losses.

Boazy,

Would it be too ironic if I suggested that Christianity is now topical in this thread because CJ was asking for it? I suspect that historically feminism arose to counter female oppression that set in as Christendom became secularized and old structures combined with new attitudes were detrimental to women. As has been the case subsequently the problem was solved on the same level it was created so it becomes a reoccurring theme with 2 steps forward and 1 step back and people like CJ defending their right to er never mind.