Each EV battery needs around 8kgs of cobalt, 80% of which comes from the Congo, along with another necessary mineral, coltan.

This month, a Congolese coltan mine collapsed killing 200 people. Last November, 32 Congolese were killed looking for cobalt.

It is estimated that by 2050 the demand for cobalt for EV batteries will increase by 585% (World Bank).

In the Congo, the use of child labour will increase. There are around 40,000 of these poor little buggers slaving away under appalling conditions (Amnesty International). Their protection against toxic cobalt dust is a cloth mask - maybe.

Mines owned mainly by Communist China.

Many of the dead kids stay buried in collapsed mines. Their families never see them again. Their miserable pay just stops.

Also, in the name of a “green” environment for the wealthy West, just this year, millions of cubic metres of toxic lead and arsenic-laden water went into the Lubumbashi river, poisoning the water supply of 3 million residents.

Until the true cost of this so-called green revolution is confronted, the suffering in the Congo will “remain hidden beneath the bonnet of every EV we drive”.

(Source: ‘Electric cell’, Noel Yaxley, 12/2/26, Spectator Australia)

ttbn,

Cobalt isn’t unique to EVs. It’s in phones, laptops and fossil fuel infrastructure too. So I hope you don't use any of those, either.

Moreover, EV battery chemistry is already reducing cobalt use, and industrial mining under supply-chain pressure is replacing some artisanal operations.

The real question whether transitioning away from fossil fuels reduces overall harm over time. Most lifecycle studies say yes.

A classic case of media amplifying moral urgency; (to some, click bate): It sells advertising.

Do we care about life in the Congo for anyone living there? Not normally.

The example of child labour is good as a stand alone example of it, but highlighting it to attack a green innovation of battery power etc, is unconvincing, but a good try.

Algorithms reward outrage; one can’t be too careful.
It’s a good idea to run these articles through an AI generators for a complex counter argument.
The article you quote is full of holes. If your interested I can nominate them.

Oh…Chatbot John’s at it, pretending to sound intelligent!

Fess-up Johnny Chatbot, there’s a good boy!

DD

I wouldn't try to convince you of anything. Your concern for children is really touching.

Central Africa has complained for a century about the uncaring European hegemony.

Now their getting a taste of the tender mercies of Chinese economic control and they are none to pleased by it. The Chinese are on the nose throughout Central Africa as a result.

Muff Diver,

I must REALLY get under your skin, given all the personal attacks.

Nice.
_____

mhaze,

Are you suggesting cobalt extraction issues are unique to EVs? Or are we talking about global resource extraction more broadly? Because phones, laptops and petroleum refining all use Congolese cobalt too.

#…I wouldn't try to convince you of anything. Your concern for children is really touching…#
Ttbn

True, i must admit I’m slow to believe in anything I can’t see touch @nd feel.

As for children, I’ve worked full time since I was thirteen; I didn’t see that as a burden at the time.
75% of kids left school at fifteen in my day, and except for three percent that wouldn’t work in an iron lung, worked full time: There was no welfare alternative.
I know a kid in my circle has worked on a boat since the same age, a great deck hand and was a wasted space in a school 3nvironment. Kids like to work, (and play), it’s a good mix.

In a time and place, the expectation is, and was, kids would chip in and work; especially on farms. It’s only a problem if you make it one.

Dearest Johnny Chatbot,

Not offended at all, I’m only highly amused: Keep up the good work.

The exploitation of the third world, its people and its resources by greedy Capitalism must be resisted. Africa is a resource rich continent ripe for the picking, as the growing demand for its wealth is exploited by America, China, Europe and others.

DD

Oh you poor thing! I'm sure your experience was just like African kids working in mines. You were lucky to escape a horrible death.

#… Oh you poor thing!…# Ttbn.NO,

No…thats just the way it was baby…and still is. Kids work before and after school these days, but in the past, work for children was a permanent fixture…Thats the point.

I’m sure African kids don't see their working in mines for one example, as being a burden, (unless they’re enslaved).

Now the exploitation of children in the workforce, brings the argument for and against child labour into another context.

What about child soldiers, now there is a good subject. Africans are well known for exploiting children for cannon fodder; as are the Palestinians in Gaza. It’s the big convenient reason Israel is victimised over killing children; the accusers overlook that simple little fact in war, who holds a gun is a target, child or not. It’s poor Israelis not only poor children, both become victims, the killer and the killed, but in spite of the truth, ( let it not stand in the way of a good story).

Fighting terrorism is impossible without killing children; the modus operandi of the terrorist organisation is child exploitation, which sits outside of international convention and let’s them off the hook.
When Palestinians sit around in the rubble with nothing better to do than kill Jews and breed more fodder for Hamas, things look very bleak for children in some areas of the world more than others.

JD asks: "Are you suggesting cobalt extraction issues are unique to EVs? '

Since I didn't mention either cobalt or EVs, JD might be able to answer his own question.

Again, for the slow, I was just pointing out that the economic exploitation of Central African resources by the Chinese is not exactly endearing them to the locals.

Paul. OTOH, thinks the exploitation is being done by "greedy Capitalism" and " must be resisted". But rest assured he'll change his mind in a trice when he finds out the exploitation is being done by his beloved CCP.

mhaze,

The thread is about cobalt and EV batteries. You entered that thread and discussed Chinese exploitation in Central Africa. So context matters.

If your point is that Chinese mining practices are unpopular locally, fine. But that’s a broader commodities issue. Cobalt extraction predates EVs and feeds electronics, oil refining and industrial alloys as well.

If we’re going to discuss exploitation in African resource extraction, let’s discuss it across the board rather than treating EVs as uniquely implicated.

Actually the thread is about child exploitation in regards to mining of exotic minerals needed for all sorts of first world paraphernalia.

And currently the exploiters are increasingly Chinese companies backed by their government. And increasingly, Central African people, (but not their leaders who are profiting mightily) are seeing the Chinese as ruthless exploiters of the locals rather than economic saviours.

mhaze,

The thread began by framing this as something "powering EVs."

You've now widened it to minerals used in all sorts of first-world products, which makes this a broader commodities and governance issue — not something unique to EVs.

Child labour in parts of Central Africa long predates battery demand and affects electronics and industrial supply chains as well.

The serious question is how supply chains improve oversight and traceability, rather than singling out one product category.

Dan,

You could talk the leg of a chair, but you've gone right off the reservation: child soldiers and whatever else you can throw in is irrelevant to the topic.

The African continent is a lost cause, something recognised by educated Africans themselves. Foreign aid has stopped them doing much to help themselves. Numbers of books have been written about how doomed it is.

We can't do a thing about child soldiers. We can refuse to buy EVs and thereby minerals mined by kids. Maybe they would turn into little soldiers instead, but the West isn't involved in that. It is involved in promoting, buying, totally unnecessary vehicles to enrich climate frauds and our number one enemy, China. We can do something about that. Not that I expect it to be done. Australians are very selective when it comes to oozing with “compassion”. And they do so like cheap stuff, no matter how little workers are paid, how badly they are treated.

ttbn,

Again, refusing to buy EVs doesn't remove Congolese mining from the global economy. Cobalt is also used in phones, laptops, refining catalysts and industrial alloys. The issue is governance and supply-chain oversight in resource extraction - not the propulsion system of a particular vehicle.

If the goal is reducing exploitation, the conversation has to be consistent across sectors, not selectively aimed at one technology.

Well.. I’m still whooping and hollering around the circled wagons with this one too; the reservation is within sight here!

Child in Africa dies in a mining collapse mining minerals for batteries: Forty children in Australia alone, die in twelve months from crashing e-bikes, and a further seven hundred and fifty are scraped off the road in NSW alone by the Ambulance service.

Q: is it legitimate to connect the two child killing events together, to support connection to the perils of EV madness, and its proclivity towards mutilating and killing children in the world generally.
Strangely, nobody in authority here in Australia seems to give a toss; it’s not a problem to them apparently. So another question;
Q: Are the death of children from the new battery technology, considered subservient to the advance of technology.
if so, nothing much has changed since the beginning of the Industrial revolution, and the climate ideologues are simply another brick in the evolutionary wall of progress.

Comrade mhaze,

"Paul. OTOH, thinks the exploitation is being done by "greedy Capitalism" and " must be resisted". But rest assured he'll change his mind in a trice when he finds out the exploitation is being done by his beloved CCP."

Chinese capital, is just as guilty as American (the largest investor in Africa) and European and other capital for the disgusting exploitation of Africa. Do you thing the Chinese are not Capitalists?
CCP = Chinese Capitalist Party.....very pragmatic those Chinese when it comes to making a buck!

Dan, Dan , Dan

There is no connection between kids in backward countries forced into hazardous work, and spoil brats killing themselves on the roads in the West.

Or like this one ? Riding a bike without a helmet ?

https://www.facebook.com/reel/33557802493863394

On a more & very serious note Child exploitation & abuse is an international crime due to those who commit it, those who turn a blind eye & those craps of people who persecute decent folk who want to do something about it !

https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=1349228937231204&set=a.468487935305313

This could go a long way towards the situation here !

China’s new deep sea mining rover reaches 6,000 feet below to dig out cobalt
http://interestingengineering.com/innovation/chinas-new-deep-sea-mining-rover

There's not much interest in the human factor. Silly of me to forget that black kids suffering in their own country are not the ones Australians like to gush over

ttbn,

No one here is indifferent to child exploitation. The disagreement is about causation and solutions. Mineral extraction governance is a longstanding issue across multiple sectors. The question is how to improve traceability and standards globally, not whether outrage is warranted.

ttbn,
Australian indigenous kids get sent to boarding schools, receive spending money, get flown home every school holiday unlike the African kids who are forced to work in poisoned mud getting sick in body & mind.
Both scenario are immoral due to the fact that it is exploitation that is the driver behind it all.

Paul1405,
You're slipping, where's your faux outrage ?

Indyvidual,

I read an excellent article by Gary Johns on the subject. Unfortunately it is paywalled. But in short it criticised Noel Pearson and his government funding to produce absolutely nothing for aboriginal kids.

There's a big difference between Australia and Congo, of course: aboriginal kids don't have to go down mines, they get everything for nothing, as do all of them being sheltered in remote communities which contribute nothing to the country, and cost us billions.

Hi Indy,

"Australian indigenous kids get sent to boarding schools, receive spending money, get flown home every school holiday unlike the African kids who are forced to work in poisoned mud getting sick in body & mind.
Both scenario are immoral due to the fact that it is exploitation that is the driver behind it all."

Sounds like one group learn how to act entitled and expectant upon handouts 'beholden to the government' where as the other group learn 'independence from government' reward for effort and work ethic.

Hi AC,

ABSTUDY is available to Australian Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander people studying or undertaking an apprenticeship who are Australian citizens and usually live in Australia. Eligible recipients include school students, university/higher education students, and trainees who are not receiving other government study support.

A far more productive investment in the future, than wasting taxpayer money on non productive aged welfare payments to millionaire old farts who are going to cark it soon anyway.

ABSTUDY
Paul1405,
Wow, quite a lengthy explanation for what is simply the mere requirement of claiming to be indigenous, valid or not.
I am a firm believer in reward for effort but what you describe as a 'productive investment' is way too pontificated. I know a number of indigenous who are worth way more in merit than many non-indigenous & those who claim to be. I've had a boss who wasn't indigenous but was accepted as one because of Pacific Islander heritage & I'd put him on top of the list of good blokes to work under. Way more of a gentleman than most White bureaudroids I had to suffer.
Anyhow, sending students without merit for higher education brings the same results as doing the same with White students. It creates future problems, not solve any. Just look at what Labor is made up of. Remember The Voice ?
btw. how's your taxpayer backed Superannuation building up ?