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The Forum > General Discussion > Deconstructing Democracy in the U.S.

Deconstructing Democracy in the U.S.

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Dear ttbn,

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Of the modern nation-states, the USA is the oldest democracy in the world, founded in 1789. It was declassified to a “flawed democracy” by the Economist Democracy Index in 2016.

As the Trump revolution continues its onslaught, it will probably be further declassified in 2026 to a “hybrid regime” (government that applies pressure on political opposition, non-independent judiciary, corruption, harassment and pressure of the media, anaemic rule of law, and more pronounced faults than flawed democracies, and issues in the functioning of governance).

The next step down is the bottom category, the “authoritarian regime” (countries where political pluralism is severely limited. Absolute monarchies or dictatorships that may have some conventional institutions of democracy but with meagre significance, infringements and abuses of civil liberties are commonplace, elections are not fair (including sham elections), the media is often state-owned or controlled by groups associated with the ruling regime, the judiciary is not independent, and censorship and suppression of governmental criticism are commonplace).

About 40% of the countries in the world are authoritarian, 38% are flawed democracies, 16% are hybrid regimes and 6% are full democracies.

Australia has been a full democracy since federation in 1901.

Our top trading partners in 2025 are :

1. China – A$ 300 billion
2. Japan – A$ 150 billion
3. European Union – A$ 110 billion
4. United States – A$ 88 billion

We depend heavily on the United States, not only for our trade but also for our defence, but can we, and should we ? That is the question.

There are ominous signs that the Trump revolution of “America First” could metamorphose into “America Only” if Trump so decides.

The incoming U.S. Under Secretary of Defence Elbridge Colby declared in his testimony on Capitol Hill, he might not support America’s commitments to send Australia three to five Virginia-class submarines as it would diminish America’s undersea capabilities.

The Trumpian revolution in the U.S. is an existentially determining factor of the future of Australia.

Better to follow events closely, ttbn. It is far more important than you think.

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Posted by Banjo Paterson, Friday, 23 May 2025 12:36:54 AM
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Hi Banjo,

Sorry to be a smarty pants, but I do believe Iceland is the worlds oldest "democracy", having established a peoples parliament as early as 930AD, I suppose they had nothing better to do during those long Artic nights. As of May 23rd 2025 the Americans are yet to establish a true democracy, of government of the people, for the people, by the people, I just poked my head out the window and checked again, nope, those Yanks are still defiantly a Capitalist oligarchy.

As for Winston and his oft quoted democracy, why then when he was PM of Britain, the country also operated as a Capitalist oligarchy and not a democracy? If democracy is a donkey, and autocracy is a horse, then we are a mule, neither donkey or horse. That's not to say the mule is any less desirable than either the donkey or the horse, in fact it may be an improvement on both.
Posted by Paul1405, Friday, 23 May 2025 6:25:33 AM
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Dear Paul 1405,

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Why is Iceland not considered the oldest democracy of the modern nation-states ?

Because for most of its history, Iceland was controlled by the Kingdom of Denmark. While they could make some decisions during the Althing they were not an independent nation. In fact, Denmark stopped the Althing in 1800. In 1845, it started again in Reykavik.

As a matter of fact I have fond personal memories of Iceland that go back to my miss-spent youth. A mate of mine and I spent three months in Iceland working on fishing trawlers catching cod fish.

I worked on the Ingólfr Arnarson (the name of the first Norse settler of Iceland). It was the oldest ship in the fleet. The Icelanders wouldn't work on it because it had none of the modern conveniences - no protections, no showers, etc. - but we had a lucky captain and caught a lot of fish !

It was very cold, very dangerous, with very rough weather and daylight for only about four hours a day.

We must have been mad, but we somehow managed to survive.

Those were the days my friend. We thought they'd never end ...

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Posted by Banjo Paterson, Friday, 23 May 2025 8:56:12 AM
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"I didn't think you would have an answer: just another pointless screech, with one of your few words misspelt, and the misuse or lack of understanding of "karen", which applies to middle-aged WOMEN. The derogatory description applies to REAL women, not men pretending to be women; and certainly not to elderly men like me."

Exactly what a true karen would say.

I dont give a stuff about trans people. That is the point. Live and let live.
Leave other people alone or you might find they want to interfere in your life. What possible impact could trans people have on an elderly man like you? Its just another excuse to be a bigoted karen and have a whiney little whinge like all right wing snowflakes.

Well cut it out old man you are needlessly hurting people with your hatred and you will only cause more hate, probably directed at you and your ilk.
Give out hate expect it to be returned.
Posted by mikk, Friday, 23 May 2025 6:24:17 PM
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Hi Banjo,

Are you convinced that America and Australia for that matter, are true democracies? Like communism, can a "democracy" only exist in some hybrid form. Democracy is a complex beast, very hard to define. The fact we empower leaders to make decisions on our behalf detracts from the principles of a true democracy. I've looked up democracy as defined by the Parliament of Australia, if anyone should know, they should. According to the P of A;

Democracy means ‘rule by the people’. The word comes from the ancient Greek words ‘demos’ (the people) and ‘kratos’ (to rule). Seems reasonable. I'm people, but I don't feel that I am ruling. I believe some other people (The political class) have taken that job from me, and millions of others.

The P of A goes on to say;

There are five key values of democracy:

(1) Respect for individuals and their right to make their own choices.
(2) Tolerance of differences and opposing ideas.
(3) Equity—valuing all people and supporting them to reach their full potential.
(4) Each person has freedom of speech, association, movement and freedom of belief.
(5) Justice—treating everyone fairly, in society and in court.

The fives key values, seem reasonable and somewhat noble, but I think our "democracy", like America has failed all five principles to some degree. Sometimes for very good practical reasons, sometimes more through human failure. I'm not opposed to our form of "democracy", I just think it is not as pure as we like to kid ourselves it is. What is your opinion?

Lastly; "Hamster you are free not to turn the wheel, but just keep turning the wheel."
Posted by Paul1405, Saturday, 24 May 2025 4:48:40 AM
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Dear Paul,

.

You ask :

« Are you convinced that America and Australia for that matter, are true democracies? Like communism, can a "democracy" only exist in some hybrid form ? »
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The Economist declassified the US from a “full democracy to a “flawed democracy” in 2016 based on its definition of those two categories (consultable on its website). That seems logical, and I see no reason to contest it.

As for Australia, King Charles II inherited the position as our head of state following the decease of his mother, Queen Elizabeth II. That has nothing to do with democracy. It has to do with monarchy. Australia was established as a constitutional monarchy in 1901. Political power is derived from the monarch within the parameters of the constitution. The constitution outlines the rights and responsibilities of both the monarch and the democratically elected government.

The Economist ranks Australia as a “full democracy” based on what it considers to be the defining elements of a democratic government. The fact that Australia’s form of government is that of a constitutional monarchy is not considered to have any significant effect on that.

While I do not rule out the possibility of the existence of what may be considered a “full democracy”, I am inclined to agree that the term is not appropriate, stricto sensu, in respect of constitutional monarchies such as Australia.

As regards the five countries whose official form of government is communist — China, Cuba, Laos, North Korea, and Vietnam — I understand they all have authoritarian governments.

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Posted by Banjo Paterson, Sunday, 25 May 2025 8:04:58 AM
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