Most Australians don't want the date changed.

Simon Longstaff, Executive Director of the Ethics Centre
writes that there are two rival accounts of Australian history
both of which have provided rich pickings for mainstream and
social media.

Both sides have been pitched against each other.

There's the "White Arm Band"of history that sees the First Fleet's
arrival as a positive. And then there's the "Black Arm Band" that
sees the arrival of the First Fleet as an invasion, as a
negative.

There's truth on both sides.

Much that is truly admirable can be traced back to
British antecedants. The rule of law, the methods of science,
the principle of respect for the intrinsic dignity of persons.
These are just a few examples that the author gives of a strong
heritage.

Of course he also talks about the dark stains in the nation's
history.

He writes that no resonable person can deny them.

So what are we to make of January 26th?

We're told that it all depends on what is to be done on this
day?

Is this day a time for reflection - a potent anniversary.
Or is it to be a day of celebration for all Australians?

Then why, the author asks - choose a date which represents loss
and suffering for so many of our citizens?

There's more at:

http://abc.net.au/religion/a-tale-of-two-truths-what-should-we-make-of-australia-day/10095032

Foxy,

This is a perennial question posed at this time of the year.

I'm sure many media outlets have their clip-bait articles prepared and ready to go.

The Christmas break is over and schools are about to start the year.

Australia Day outrage and cost of school uniforms is about all there generally is in the news cycle at this time of the year.

I am more concerned about the apparent lack of knowledge of Australian history by the general public.

I don't have a problem knowing that Australia day can mean many things to many different people.

Hi Foxy,

Some see the 26th January 1788 as 'Invasion Day' when 11 ships of unknown origin, carrying a tribe of about 1400 people landed at Sydney Cove and set up camp. The natives soon realised the uninvited new comers were not leaving.

Every year this nonsense is dragged up by the same white-ants, showing the world what a joke Australia is. No other people rubbish their own country like these malcontented halfwits do.

Even the appalling Anthony Albanese won't touch Australia Day, which shows how mad the people who harp on it, set off like alarm clocks once a year, are. Australia Day is the 26th of January. It has nothing to do with aborigines, whose descendants celebrate lots of days at the expense of the majority.

Why is an issue that apparently has different points
of view should not be discussed or only have one
acceptable side?

Why aren't rival accounts of history unacceptable. Why
the personal insults? If the discussion is unacceptable -
don't comment. Stay away.

But apparently it is important enough to insult.

This topic has been rich pickings for mainstream and
social media. Pitching sides against each other.

I grew up knowing little about the history of our Indigenous
People. I remember celebrating Australia Day in Sydney with
re-enactments taking place. I loved the costumes, the
boats and all the ceremonies.

It was much, much later that any protests took place and I
always assumed those protesting were trouble makers out
for attention.

I did not understand that the arrival of the First Fleet
was a disaster for the Indigenous people who fought, lost,
and the wounds remain.

I also did not know that the British had been specifically
instructed to respect the interests of the Aboriginal
people of New Holland. That the arrival of the First Fleet
was a disaster for the people already living here for generations.

In the link given earlier, history shows that it was the same
kind of disaster visited on the British - on arrival of the Romans, the
Anglo Saxons invaded by the Vikings and their Norman kin.
Lnad was taken, language was suppressed if not destroyed,
local religions trashed. Everything taken by conquest.
Which was a feature of history around the world.

Today, as already stated earlier we are driven by politics
and many are greatly influenced.

It's becoming difficult to see the bigger picture. But
we should at least try to be civil to each other.

Most Australians according to the surveys want to keep
Australia Day as is. What the future holds - who knows. But
it still is worth debating.

I have to admit that I am also one who wants Australia
Day to remain as is. It's part of our history.

The First Fleeters considered themselves British.
In fact it took some time for the British and their
descendents in Australia to stop thinking of England
as "home".

Australia for a very long time was viewed as an outpost
of the British Empire. Far beyond the time when this
perception was literally true or even remotely
reasonable.

And yet, as Ben Pobjie writes:

" Yet somehow, the diverse peoples of the Indigenous
nations and deluded white criminals of the motherland
ended up forming a single nation. This amazing land we
call Australia. Which combines all the best of its
brutally cruel origins in modern complacency and
self deception".

Pobjie's book - "Aussie, Aussie, Aussie," is worth a read.

Why people even bother about changing the day shows the spoiled-child like mentality of so many who never had to work for a living & never nor ever will contribute to society in a positive manner !

Aboriginals don't need to participate in White Anglo Society if they don't want to, they have their own territory, they can have the own Aboriginal Nation holidays if they desire. Why should it be ok for Aboriginals to force their opinion on White Anglo people, this is dictatorship. Aboriginal's couldn't defend themselves when the British arrived. Victoria had a policy of protection of native peoples. No we shouldn't change the date of Australia Day

Just make it a long weekend every year. Like it used to be. Nothing more Australian than that.

"Aboriginals don't need to participate in White Anglo Society" shows not only is the Kudos Kid a white supremacists, a racists who believes in the superiority of his whiteness, but he supports apartheid as well. A bit of a Botha type!

Paul1405,
Why force them if they don't want to ? They're already totally confused with so many special days & programmes just for them & the many who pull their Aboriginality out of a raffle barrel !

On the 26th of January 1788 the First Fleet sailed through the heads
and sailed up Port Jackson and dropped anchor in Sydney Cove.

This was the biggest event in 60,000 years !

Somehow I think that has to be a day worth celebrating.

Ben Pobjie writes:

" The prospect of being sent to the far end of the world,
to a strange unknown land, was terrifying . The powerful
emotions generated by the discovery of their fate, were
eloquently expressed in the classic old song - 'Botany
Bay" :

"Farewell to old England forever
Farewell to my rum coes as well
Farewell to the well known Tim Bailey
Who used to teach me to spell
Singing too-ra-li-oo-ra-li addity
Singing bing-bong-dum-doo-dad-fi-fay
Singing spinkly pom pinkly bom baddity
It's shyte down in Botany Bay".

Australia has come a long way these past decades.
From its humble beginnings it has become a thriving,
wealthy nation. Who would have thought when the
unhappy First Fleeters were huddled hungry and
desperate on the shores of Port Jackson that one
day Australia would grow so powerful and confident
on the world stage.

If we;re going to acknowledge our history - we need to
acknowledge all of it - including our British heritage.
There are those who tell us that - there's no point in
looking towards the past that the important thing is to
look towards the future.

But how can one know where ont is going if one doesn't
know where one has been? Hope for the future will always
be based on respect for the past. And in re-capping the
history of Australia, including Australia Day, let us
hope that we can learn something about ourselves.

Australia Day comes once a year
And to so many it is quite clear
The Brits came sailing to our shores
Resulting in Indigenous wars

The natives fought
The natives lost
History was written at great cost
But a tale of conquest became blessed
With the nation's quest for the very best
Let's not forget that today - we are one
So let's continue to get the job done!

Idealism cost way too much in every sense !

There are many reasons for positivity. They can be found just
as easily as finding reasons for negativity. It merely
needs a change in perception.

Getting out and enjoying the outside world instead of
spending every day on your computer also helps.

I thought that for me this discussion had run its
course. Then yesterday conversations with friends
brought out different perspectives that I hadn't
considered.

Some people seemed to feel that we cling to the
date of Australia Day that commemorates only the
establishment of British settlement of this continent.

26th January says nothing about the country we have become
since, nor about the Indigenous people who lived here for
tens of thousands of years.

It was pointed out that if we had remained a colony of
Britain, this date would be relevant - but as we're not.
It isn't. I felt that it was a part of our history and
therefore it was relevant.

It was further said that Australia Day is made up of
3 stories - the Indigenous heritage, the British
institutions built on it, and the multicultural
migration. That we should celebrate each of these
stories whereas 26th January is an expression of only
one.

So what date would be relevant for an independent Australia?

The most liked answer was - the 9th July 1900 when the
Constitution of Australia was ratified creating a new
state that we were no longer a British colony. It came
into being the following year.

A country's National Day usually is celebrated on the
country's gaining its independence.

Perhaps we could think about this further down the track?
I'm happy with the way things are right now.

I don't care what Foxy thinks, because I don't trust her. I will vote against anyone who tries to change the date of Australia Day, and steal the heritage of the Anglo-Australian and European peoples. I believe that Foxy is an enemy of humanity.

CM,

If you really don't care what Foxy thinks - why do you
continue to comment and try to slur her?

Go on admit it - you're a fan!

I've got a bitter enemy
His heart to hate he gave
I'm sure he'd like to see me die
So he could dance upon my grave

But then such is a quirk of fate
Because the poison in his heart
May just hasten his miserable life
And force him to depart

Both the UK and Australia present themselves
in the international community as beacons of
tolerance and diversity, as successful
expressions of multiculturalism and as
examples of the power of the core values
of Anglo-Liberalism.

Yet as we can see from a minority of internal
critics who try to persuasively argue that these
representations disguise systematic structures of
racial inequality and tolerance.

So on Australia Day - let us all remember:

"Tis The Season To Celebrate Australia's diversity
and all of our humanity!"

Australians all let us rejoice
Let everybody have a voice
The time has come for us to say
We love many things - from far away!

Why English is hard to learn:

We'll begin with box, the plural is boxes
But the plural of ox, is oxen not oxes
One fowl is a goose, and two are called geese
Yet the plural of moose, is never called meese

We speak of a brother but also of brethren
But though we say mother, we never say methren
Then the masculine pronouns are he, his and him
But imagine the feminine - she, shis, and shim ...

(Taken from the web).

I guess I did not realize
how passionate some people are about Australia Day.
I put up the discussion because Australia Day is
just around the corner and this discussion happens
every year. I thought it would be interesting to see
if views were still divided or if they had changed.

I made it clear that I personally wanted the date to
remain as is - for historic reasons.

Now, apparently I can't be trusted, and have been accused
of being an enemy of humanity?
That changing the date is stealing the heritage of
Anglo-Australian and European peoples.
Really?

The date will only be changed when the majority of
Australians vote to have it changed. Including Anglo-
Australians and Europeans. It has to be a majority
decision. So "stealing" anyone's heritage is wrong.

Same as only acknowleding the Anglo-Australian and European
heritage is also wrong.
It will be a majority decision to change the date.

As for me being an enemy of humanity?

I don't think that my advocating for respecting differences,
acknowledging skills, and perspectives, and wishing to
create a more inclusive, equitable and harmonious society
counts as being an enemy of humanity.

Neither would my saying that people should be treated as
individuals. That we should not pre-judge or make
assumptions and that we should accept people for who they are.

I think that someone who sees this as being an enemy of
humanity psychologists would probably declare them
to be an extremist -, a fundamentalist, of unsound mind.
Luckily, these people are a tiny minority. Both in Australia
and the UK.

But perhaps I am being too harsh. I need to beter dodge the
spitballs and make allowances for people who have a strong
sense of belonging only to their own kind. There are many
people who don't like differences and see stability only
with their own kind.

Associate with whoever you want. This is Australia.
It's your choice. And, its ours to not want to associate
with you. Don't try to force your way of thinking
onto the rest of the country.

It won't happen.

Australia's heritage and story is made up of 3 parts.
The Indigenous part. The British institutions that were
built, and the waves of immigration that followed.

Acknowledging only one heritage - could that be described
as "stealing" from the other heritages?

Just a thought.

The way I see it Australia Day is to reflect & celebrate the effort of all who contributed to the building of this Nation. To simply just live in Australia is not a contribution to the Nation.

Indyvidual,

That's a beautiful wish. However, so far many
Australians want the date to remain as is.
Perhaps your thought will happen sometime in
the future?

“If the British “invaded” Australia and conquered an entire continent along with its 750,000 inhabitants, all with just 200 soldiers—well, credit where credit’s due!”

Ever heard of "terra nullius?"

A library visit and a history lesson appears overdue.

For the old bloke ttbn, his understanding of history is nil. Australia was not conquered with 200 British soldiers. or by a vast army. Colonization was a gradual process, beginning in 1788 and ending around 1938, so it was a 200 year process. The end came when the colonizer had effective vanquished the original inhabitants to a point where resistance was effectively neutralized, and the colonizer dominated all aspects of the land being occupied.

p/s It took the Romans 50 years to colonize Britain. Although strong résistance remained in what is now Scotland. The Romans like the British in India relied on "vassal kings" to maintain control of new territories gained.

Dear Paul,

My son and his family are coming over for dinner tonight.
I'm not cooking. We're having Chinese takeaway from the
best "best-Chinese restaurant" in town. And a chocolate
ganache cake for dessert. It's my grandson's birthday.

Great way to celebrate Australia-Day!

First generation Australians born to immigrants often face challenges related to navigating cultural differences, language barriers, potential discrimination, identity struggles often feeling "caught between two worlds" due to their heritage and upbringing in a new country. This can lead to increased stress and mental health concerns like anxiety and depression.

Cultural dissonance can produce difficulties reconciling their heritage culture with Australian customs and social norms, leading to confusion and potential alienation.

The pressure to adapt to a new culture while maintaining ties to their heritage can cause significant psychological stress.

Feeling like they don't fully belong to either their heritage culture or Australian society, leading to confusion about their identity and, in many cases, non-stop criticism, arguing, fault finding with the country and culture their parents chose for a better life.

Then there are those whose parents fled from
persecution and opressive regimes. Who were
born here. Whose parents worked hard to give them
an education. Who managed to achieve high professions
and homes, inter-married and live quite happily
con tributing to society.

Australia is a nation of immigrants. They come in all
shapes and sizes, and from all backgrounds.
One size does not fit all.

" Australians have become titans of business, legends of
sport, giants of science, colossi of philantropy, and
pigmies of politics. Australians have led the world in
myriad ways and whether generating wealth, inspiring
youth, opening up the vista of human potential, saving
lives, they have done it all in a peculiarly Australian
way, with a swagger and style that marks out the
inhabitants of the scientifically determined greatest
country on earth".

(Ben Pobjie).

An increased majority of Australians now supporting January 26th., and a drop in mad people demonstrating against it and vilifying their own country. The criminals who destroy and deface statues beheaded those of their fellow Leftist nut jobs, ex PMs Keating and Rudd. Clever.

Given that the nutters now have to baulk out their pathetic demonstrations with aliens waving Palestinian flags - indeed any malcontents that they can recruit - it is clear that their beef is less to do with Australia Day than it is with their contempt for, and hatred of, Australia itself. Australia Day is just one of the few big events we have that people are sensitive to: that means someone to them. It was brought up here, by a Leftist, malcontented grinch, who will never have any real connection with Australia, suffering as she is, from the first Australian generation of immigrants syndrome. It's unfortunate, but just another of the many problems with immigration and multiculturalism.

" Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your
brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in
your own eye?"

We Australians need to respect the norms and values
of our neighbours and colleagues and avoid stereotypes,
judgements, biases, and especially hatreds. Try on this
very important day to be inclusive not divisive, and
establish clear and shared expectations.

Enjoy the day. And remember that Extremists and haters,
are a minority and they will continue to fizz and splutter
in their own grease. They don't represent today's
Australians. They know so little and know it so fluently.

Enjoy the day!

ttbn,

You said I don't exist and that you will ignore me.
It seems that you are not able to do that.
I must be doing something right.

Your efforts are appreciated.

Enjoy your day.

Cheers.

Another conservative Dutton will probably ignore is Canada’s opposition leader, soon to be PM, Pierre Poilievre. UK Tory leader Kemi Badenoch has already visited him, looking for tips, but Australian politicians of all stripes seem to think that Australia is an isolated bubble - except for their addiction to the mass immigration of inappropriate foreigners, and the corrupt UN.

We have had a lot of naive people wondering about what influence Trump will have on Australia, when the answer is obviously bugger all with the dimwits in our political class. We will have to be smacked around the ears with tariffs and threats to alliances before any “leader” in the foreseeable future gets off his arse. One of the few things in our culture not threatened - still going strong - is the ‘she’ll be right mate’ attitude.

So, some conservative leaders will bond with others internationally. But we don't have any conservative leaders. Dutton is a mixture of something too peculiar to define. Stand in front of our one national flag, but continue wrecking the economy with Net Zero.

Poilievre is a fair dinkum conservative who raised $AU 40 million in the year of his first appearance as a candidate, from small donors, not self-serving moneybags. He is attracting younger voters.

Poilievre ignores the mainstream media, and talks to his audience via social media, as did Donald Trump. Dutton is as frightened of the mainstream media, particularly the ABC, as the other goat is. Just imagine them casually eating an apple and looking totally disinterested while being yelled at by a media goon.

Poilievre was the first political figure to recognise the Covid atrocity and the unheard of removal of human rights. The muck-spreaders laughed that the spending to ‘save us’ would generate inflation.

Polls suggest that he will win a record 226 seats out of 338, a record for the right.

I wouldn't swap Australia for quids. But I would swap our politicians at the drop of a hat.

There are some politicians who deserve support.
The federal Liberal MP for the electorate of
Menzies - Keith Wolahan, is such a politician.
He's out to make a difference - not a career.
And works so very hard. Perhaps one day he could
become our PM. We need more like him.

I was never into protests or public demonstrations.
However I see from the news reports that tens of
thousands of people have joined marches across
Australia in protest of January 26th being used
as the national day.

Apparently in Melbourne alone, police said that
25,000 people were at Parliament House. They said
that the vast majority of the demonstraters both for,
and against Australia Day were peaceful, arrests were
made in Adelaide, including a man displaying a Nazi
symbol.

I guess this day will continue to be controversial for some.

For many, the day will be spent privately at home with
family and friends. We're so lucky to have this freedom.
So lucky indeed.

It goes round and around but ultimately when the first fleet dropped
anchor in Sydney Cove it was the biggest event in 60,000 years.
Can anyone deny that ?
It jerked the whole aboriginal culture into the modern world.
Remember only those in the very North had any idea that there was a
world of people and countries anywhere else.
When Cook first arrived the aborigines thought they were the ghosts of
their ancestors arriving in giant canoes.
Only took a day or so to realise they were men like themselves.
As far as I know perhaps Cook took some on board and showed them maps
of the world.
The local elders must have very quickly realised that there was a world
out there of which they knew nothing.
Can someone recommend a book about the Cook encounters ?

There was one report of some people along the east coast saw a big
canoe under a cloud past by and never seen again.
Such a siting may have been a Spanish ship that went missing years before Cook.

Hi Bezza,

I suggest you get hold of two books by author, comedian,
and satirist, Ben Pobjie:

"Aussie, Aussie, Aussie".

And:

"Error Australis".

Both are Australian histories and great reads.

It's only by looking at where we have been, that we can
understand who we are, what we stand for. Both books are
scholarly and hilarious accounts of a young nation that
has spent many years seeking its place in the world.

" Savage, provocative, deeply depressing and brilliant -
should be required reading for secondary students".
(Noni Hazelhurst).

" Freaking hilarious, had me gasping with laughter".
( Julie Goodwin).

"It's as if Manning Clark had a lobotomy and rewrote
his "Short History of Australia with a crayon. I
enjoyed it".
( Shaun Micallef).

BTW:

Did anybody know - it's Mozart's Birthday today?

The Trump election is believed to have had an effect on the surge of approval for January 26.

Be that as it may, support for the date has increased from 63% to 69%, with that of voters 18-24 approving retention of the date rising from 42% to 52%.

The numbers wax and wane from year to year. At the end
of the day, it appears that most Australians want to keep
the date as is. However, ours is a country which is worth
celebrating - no matter when we decide to do it.