Behind the Voice are black lawyers who claim the British Westminster Government based on Christian traditions never made a treaty with the inhabitants of this Land. It was stolen from them, and settlement should never have happened without a treaty. In recent years, the black aboriginal activists have banded together to identify themselves as a nation with whom the White British settlement needs to make a Treaty. They have identified their tribal lands, raised their own flag, and behind the scenes have anticipated their own Elders government and ambassadors. It is with this Blak Government the Westminster Government needs to be subject to on their lands.

Quote, "Mr. Justin Mohamed was announced as Australia's inaugural Ambassador for First Nations People by the Foreign Minister, the Minister for Indigenous Australians and Senator Dodson on 7 March 2023.

Islam is aligning itself with aboriginal spirituality in Australia.

Good on him. My favourite of his songs is 'The Sounds of Goodbye'.

Let's home what we are now hearing from the polls is the sounds of goodbye to the Voice and Albanese shortly after.

Sorry, Josephus. Wrong post.

The whole thing gets sillier and sillier. The end of Australian society is nigh. Ambassador my backside!

To understand the mindset of those aboriginal activist of the Uluru Constuction is the land belongs to them and was illegally settled by the British Crown, therefore the Westminster Government set up in Canberra is illegitimate. They need to make a treaty with us the owners of this land and pay reperations for their damages and disposession of our lands, waterways, resources, and beaches.

The fact is the colonisers [British Crown] believe the land is now theirs and they treat us with white supremacy and believe our culture primitive, which is racism. Albanese has accepted this view and we have said SORRY, but it is not enough. Untill these land features are fuly recognised as belonging to the traditional owners there cannt be reconciliation.

This has surfaced because many have interbred with the colonisers and been educated in law by the colonisers. They enforce the land was not terra nullus when Cook arrived and the Crown stole the Lands for the British.

We tribes now form our own Government and administration and the colonisers must pay for the privilidge to live on our Lands. Our Government are the Elders. We have an Ambassador with whom to deal state affairs.

If you understand the Blak activists mind they have been influenced by Communist justice and now Islamic law, as they believe in the Spirit Creator [Allah]and Mother Earth. That all belongs to Mother Earth from which we came and to which we return, so millenniums of born children being given back to Mother Earth is a natural event, especially girl children.
Boys had a better chance as they would become warriors and protecters.
That is the reason only one point three million persons inhabited Australia in 1787.

Their culture has morphed into a modern version as they have adopted things brought with the invading culture. The Communists Thomas Mayo and Marcia Langton, have identified to them the injustices they face at the loss of their lands, and they need to create a scene of social injustice to change the political landscape. The Voice in an illegitimate invader's government is not enough, it the start of recognition of whose land.

The problem is the British Crown is a Christian institution who believe they are superior and expect us to forgive their past transgressions, as they plead in their parliaments. However, we now perceive there are enough non-Christians to overthrow the British Crown and install a Government of Aboriginal Elders, to whom the colonizes must answer

We imagine the Voice is merely to advise our Executive Government, it is rather the opposite. The Voice is the Voice from the Aboriginal Blak Elders Government who are the legitimate custodians of the lands, resources, waterways, and beaches. They are not coming as subordinates for handouts for the NIAA, they are telling the Government what is owed for dispossession, and already they have their own Koori Courts to deal with what they consider crimes. Their criminal lore is different from the crimes against the Crown. The Crown no longer administers their lands, so their lore applies on identified tribal lands. Theft of settler's property is legitimate as that is the settler's way.

What we consider our lands their lawyers uphold was stolen by force. That is taught in schools and Universities to prepare for the rise of the full Blak Government of Elders, and the removal of the Westminster government.

http://www.skynews.com.au/opinion/another-day-another-native-title-claim-indigenous-council-claims-3500-properties/video/2

There is a native title claim on 3,500 properties, covering 530 square kilometres.Liberal National Party MP Henry Pike discussed the land title claims by an Indigenous land council and how it could affect the people living there. “If this claim is successful, the council could lose land tenure, over sporting club grounds, cemeteries, parks, and other recreational areas. “What’s that going to mean for locals who live in that area?”

tps://www.msn.com/en-au/news/other/elites-don-t-want-to-expose-the-dark-underbelly-of-aboriginal-land-councils/ar-AA1gQnxB?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=6d7d67739bc54c75bbab6bdbd5886065&ei=12

http://www.msn.com/en-au/news/other/they-are-out-to-destroy-australia-warren-mundine-slams-push-for-indigenous-treaty/ar-AA1gQf0e?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=6d7d67739bc54c75bbab6bdbd5886065&ei=20

Islam is aligning itself with aboriginal spirituality in Australia.
Josephus,
That was clear from Day 1, they have the most to gain from the Voice ! Those who can see that are called stupid by Langton !

It is my observation that indigenous folk supporting Yes are rather ill-informed & non-indigenous who support Yes are either utterly ignorant or extremely callous & exploitive !

You really need to leave off the Koolaid Josephus.

What a confused bundle of disparate conspiratorial threads you are attempting to tie together.

It really does smack of a mental condition.

Perhaps you need to take a break from the internet for a bit and rearrange your thoughts into something a little more coherent.

Just because someone has an Arab name, Islam itself is not necessarily supporting the Voice; and who cares anyway. Muslims are individuals, just like Christians, and they get a secret vote.

This is just like saying Christianity supports race-based politics, when it does not. A few wackerdoodle Bishops out of touch with reality
are blowing all sorts of nonsense out of their backsides, but that doesn't mean that 'Christianity' itself supports the Voice. It does not.

A certain woman was wetting herself about a few exhibitionist on Adelaide streets waving Yes banners about. Demonstrations don't necessarily translate into votes. People who don't make fools of themselves in public and pretend that posting shite online will have any effect will be the ones to decide the referendum.

We must not condemn the indigenous for looking at better deals after all, the settlers & their descendants are doing the same. Where big difference is in the fact that the pseudo-indigenous are looking for power they can't handle & not giving a hoot for the real Aborigines.
The activists have demonstrated for many decades now that they can't manage due to the same greed that they accuse the settlers of whereas the settlers have provided for all, the activists have provided nothing !

Take a look at the photo here of Anthony Albanese with Who/ None other than Marcia Langton and Thomas Mayo both communists. If you can trust the Communists, you may vote Yes, if not Vote NO!

http://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/the-voice-referendum-everything-you-need-to-know-about-marcia-langton-s-proposed-36-network-of-voices-across-australia-if-the-yes-vote-wins/ar-AA1gUsmC?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=2163fc94cb32416eb24dc92de32fbbfb&ei=29

At the helm of the 272-page report is Professor Marcia Langton (left). She is inextricably tied to the Voice and has assisted the government of the day at every step to see the 'generous request' made in the Uluru Statement from the Heart come to fruition
© Provided by Daily Mail

DO ABORIGINALS NEED ANOTHER VOICE AND ENSHRINED IN THE CONSTUTION?

Here's some true facts for you.
They already have voices
1. 3,278 Aboriginal corporations
2. 243 Native title bodies
3. 48 Land councils
4. 35 Regional councils
5. 122+ Aboriginal agencies
6. 3 Advisory bodies
7. 145 Health Organisations
• 11 Indigenous Federal MPs
• 12 Culturally important Indigenous days
• Taxpayers give $33 BILLION annually for 984,000 people (3.8% of the population
• Expenditure per person in 2012-13 was $43,449 on Indigenous Australian, compare to $20,900 on other Australians a ratio of 2.08 to 1 and increase from 1.95 in 2009.
• Australian taxpayers spend at least $100 million a day on direct support for Indigenous Australians every year or
$39.5 billion of direct government expenditure every single year.
The figures are based on the 2017 Indigenous Expenditure Report produced by the Productivity Commission.

Source: Professor Matthew Bennett, spokesman for the Sovereign Court of International Justice (SCIJ) and International Barrister with a 25+ year legal career and an expert on international law.

Josephus,
Many of these ineffective bureadroids are anything but Aborigine. They're the ones whose misappropriation of billons of Dollars is now a real spanner in the works & the Voice will make an already bad situation worse because the same people are manning the Voice.

Kudos Josephus- I find your direction interesting.

It's sort of ironic that we needed to introduce concepts of Roman-Christian Law- effectively absorbing them into our culture before they could define their "problem". Sounds a bit like a contradiction but it may just be a paradox.

The Communists in this case seem to be acting on the principles of Hebrew Trotskite Saul Alinsky from Rules For Radicals.

In my view we need to create Aboriginal autonomous zones for Aboriginal self determination- (just as we need to consider Anglo-Australian Self Determination)- but I can't see Aboriginals making it work- but the Communists don't care if the Aboriginals don't make it as long as the Communists get what they want.

There is often a difference between wants and needs- I think this is where Aboriginals have things mixed up- but if they go down the wrong path that is their sovereignty- and their responsibility.

Will Aboriginals ever be able to map a path from "beating women over the heads with a stick and drinking themselves to death" to "creating a stable society that is self sufficient and sustaining and enduring and preserving and purposeful and meaningful"? The governing morality requires the threat of violence even under the Roman-Christian system of governing morality but Aboriginal violence seems more arbitrary and extreme. But Communism perhaps see the Roman-Christian system as "a Marxist False Consciousness" that needs to be destroyed in favour of Nihilistic Marxism. As Churchill said the "Democratic" Roman-Christian system of government is still imperfect- this appears to have been used by our enemies to attack us- even though it is better than their Communist Nihilistic Anarchism.

The evolution of humans is on-going & since colonisation the Aborigines too have sped-up.
Already there are extremely watered-down (for want of a better description) Australian Indigenous & indeed among the rest of the World who have adapted to modern ways of life & quite a large number are already faring significantly better than most original Westerners.
The one trait they appear not to display much of is good will for others.
Westerners have doomed themselves by their own stupidity & they're not only Caucasians.
The smart will forge ahead but is good will in their mentality ?

Well, the true agenda of the Yes Campaign is exposed in the Protest in Adelaide by the Marxist league, as they fight to overthrow the Westminster Government. The Voice debate was laid bare on the streets of Adelaide as protesters hurled abuse at Jacinta Price and Warren Mundine outside the No campaign launch in South Australia. Obviously, students at the University are taught by people like Marcia Langton, who preaches racism as a disadvantage, a typical Marxist ploy to create division and dependency on Government.

In Marxism the government is there to control society, in Westminster the Government is there to serve the people. We have had the experience during Covid where the governments controlled the people, especially in Victoria as they are Marxist. When society relies on the Government for their lives the population is suppressed as they become reliant on Government. When people must create their own income from work the freedoms of society flourish. When the Government uses more money to pay government employees than the self-employed industries and workers create there is societal conflict. Ideal situation for Communism to rise.

The protesters are directionless parasites who are rightly threatened by bits of common sense here & there.
We really need a resurgence of common sense & the only way to achieve that is via a healthy mentality-building National Service or whatever people want to call it. A kind of re-humanising gap year to halt the influence of the parasitic elites !

This is the cause of the Socialist left; they are not concerned for the disadvantaged aboriginals just want social equal justice according to Marxist principles.

Quote: "Channel Seven entertainment reporter Peter Ford has slammed people marching in a ‘Yes’ campaign rally for walking straight past a homeless Aboriginal man.

He said ‘Walk for Yes’ participants were only “pretending to care” about the actual struggles of Aboriginal people.

It is estimated that 30,000 people marched through Melbourne's CBD on Sunday afternoon to promote the proposed Indigenous Voice to Parliament.

But Ford, who lives in Melbourne, tweeted that he had watched campaigners “ignoring a homeless Indigenous man” on the street, walking right by him.

“Fascinating to see an Indigenous homeless man outside Flinders Street Station this afternoon as hundreds - maybe thousands - of YES marchers walk right past him,” Ford tweeted.

“Nobody stopped to acknowledge him. Nobody gave him anything. Maybe it happened outside the 20 minutes I was watching.”

But marchers shot back that the showbiz reporter was hypocritical for not helping the man himself.

Ford responded by pointing out that, unlike marchers, he was not “holding signs pretending to care”.

He then erased his original tweet.

“Deleted earlier tweet only because I'm not in the mood for abuse on a lovely Sunday arvo. Sure hit a nerve!” he said.

“People clearly unfamiliar with Melbourne CBD and how many homeless people you see on every block you walk. It was my observation. You don't like it - that's totally OK.”

Ford told people on social media that he is not going to vote in the referendum."

"they fight to overthrow the Westminster Government".

What a panicky little bleat from a panicky little person who trawls through bottom feeding libertarian facebook pages to spew out the most ridiculous tripe imaginable.

Of course he imagines he is defending things which are demonstrably not under attack nor threatened in any way shape or form.

Yet his reds under the bed paranoia knocks his white little knees and he repeatedly sounds the clarion call from the safety of his little keyboard.

Sigh.

Just remember SR that it is the useful idiots that are the first to be eliminated after the revolution.

When you have people financing their enemies then one should get a fairly good idea what kind of society is allowing that !

Hasbeen,
I take no notice of Steele rantings; he has nothing constructing to say and cannot debate civilly. He supports a Marxist Republican dictatorship as he is a disturbed individual, and that character type suits his personality.

Josephus,

Where on earth did you get the idea my posts were for you? They aren't. You are so far down the rabbit hole that the likelihood of you resurfacing into reality are virtually non-existent. It follows that rational discussion with you is impossible.

No the fun lies in showing how absurd your rants are. I enjoy it and if it in some small way provides utility to others then all well and good.

You just go about your business.

Dear Hasbeen,

Useful idiots indeed. The continued support for the corporations and the billionaire class from a crusty old pensioner like yourself must have them in fits of laughter. You have been sold a pup and you are just too blinker to see it.

Noel Pearson has revealed that to vote Yes will give aboriginal youth identity with their Blak heritage, and not continue trying to make them little white boys. What nonsense this is! Australia is multi racial and multicultural, but he wants to make black race an identity in the constitution.

Quote,"On Birpai country, Uncle Amos Donovan echoed Uncle Frank's calls for more culturally appropriate and accessible information.

The Birpai-Dunghutti elder and former chief executive of the Bunyah Local Aboriginal Land Council says getting some elders to even consider reading government-produced information on the upcoming vote is a challenge.

"People in their 70s and 80s, many of them are illiterate," Uncle Amos says.

Research conducted by the Literacy for Life Foundation estimates between 40 and 65 per cent of Aboriginal adults are functionally illiterate in English, with that figure likely even higher in regional and remote areas.

Uncle Amos thinks political alienation and trauma stemming from the Stolen Generations and Protection Era policies have added to the challenge for some elders to trust information from governments."

Why doesn't everyone just wait till Oct 15. Anyone can spruik support for Yes but then vote No in secret & vice versa !

For those wetting themselves about what foreigners will think of us if we reject the Marxist, racist Voice, Nigel Farage says that it has the feeling of Brexit. People are listening to the arguments and changing their minds. The result could be a real "slap in the face for the metropolitan elites".

Facts the Yes Voters are blind too.

http://www.msn.com/en-au/news/other/voice-is-a-soft-entry-point-to-arm-up-aboriginal-activists-with-constitutional-powers/ar-AA1h2srd?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=ca06055da08a47a18404cf3db4310390&ei=7

Quote: 250 delegates gathered on 26 May 2017 near Uluru.

Thirteen Regional Dialogues proposed three reforms, endorsed by the National Constitutional Convention. Documented in the final report of the 2017 Referendum Council.

Participation in the Uluru Statement from the Heart was by invitation from local Indigenous organisations, mostly land councils, who selected the participants.

Roughly, 60 percent of places were to be reserved for First Nations/Traditional Owner groups; 20 percent of places for Aboriginal community organisations; and 20 percent of places for individuals such as activists, Elders, youth, members from the Stolen Generations, and significant figures.

The Uluru Statement proposes: "Voice, Treaty, Truth"
Voice is referring to a constitutionally enshrined Voice to the executive Parliament. The Constitutional referendum would amend the Constitution to authorise the Parliament to make a law guaranteeing a First Nations voice to Parliament.

Treaty or Makarrata is a word from the language of the Yolngu people in Arnhem Land. Since the 1980’s it has commonly been used to refer to “treaty”; it means coming together to heal wounds of the past. A “Makarrata/Treaty commission” would supervise an agreement-making between First Nations and the Australian governments at a national and regional level.

“Truth-telling” is another function of the Makarrata Commission, to tell the truth about the Aboriginal side of Australian history and to bring awareness about the impact of colonisation and dispossession. The Commission would capture these stories as well as stories of co-existence, to create a path for reconciliation between First Nations and Australians.

An example of truth-telling can be found on page fourteen of the Referendum Council’s report from Ross River:

“Participants expressed disgust about a statue of John McDouall Stuart being erected in Alice Springs following the 150th anniversary of his successful attempt to reach the Top End. This expedition led to the opening up of the ‘South Australian frontier’ which lead to massacres as the telegraph line was established.Its presence and the fact that Stuart is holding a gun is disrespectful to the Aboriginal community who are descendants of the families slaughtered during the massacres throughout central Australia.”

More than 1200 Indigenous leaders representing 13 First Nations Regional Dialogues across the country were part of the process:

Hobart, hosted by Tasmanian Aboriginal Corporation (9–11 December 2016);
Broome, hosted by the Kimberley Land Council (10–12 February 2017);
Dubbo, hosted by the New South Wales Aboriginal Land Council (17–19 February 2017);
Darwin, hosted by the Northern Land Council (22–24 February 2017);
Perth, hosted by the South West Aboriginal Land and Sea Council (3–5 March 2017);
Sydney, hosted by the New South Wales Aboriginal Land Council (10–12 March 2017);
Melbourne, hosted by the Federation of Victorian Traditional Owners Corporation (17–19 March 2017);
Cairns, hosted by the North Queensland Land Council (24–27 March 2017);
Ross River, hosted by the Central Land Council (31 March – 2 April 2017);
Adelaide, hosted by the Aboriginal Legal Rights Movement Inc (7–9 April 2017);
Brisbane, (21–23 April 2017);
Thursday Island, hosted by Torres Shire Council and a number of Torres Strait regional organisations (5–7 May 2017).
The 13th dialogue refers to a truncated dialogue session hosted by the United Ngunnawal Elders Council in Canberra on 10 May 2017.
The Referendum Council sought the approval of the Prime Minister and the Opposition Leader to base the dialogues on the six reform proposals below and ask the dialogues: What is meaningful recognition to you?

A symbolic statement of recognition.
Deletion of section 25 of the Constitution (section 25 says that if a State law disqualifies all the people of any race from voting in State elections, then those persons shall not be counted when working out how many seats each state gets in the House of Representatives. The deletion is symbolic as it’s inoperative at the moment).
Deletion and replacement or moderation of section 51 (xxvi), the race power.
A racial non-discrimination clause.
A constitutionally enshrined Voice to the Parliament.
Agreement-making.

Josephus mate,

Are you really that thick?

Here you are posting "Research conducted by the Literacy for Life Foundation estimates between 40 and 65 per cent of Aboriginal adults are functionally illiterate in English, with that figure likely even higher in regional and remote areas." which in anyone's language except it seems yours, speaks eloquently about the divide in this country and the need to start healing it. But somehow you use it in an argument against the Voice.

It isn't you clown.

BTW posting crap from the Cretin is disgusting.

BTW posting crap from the Cretin is disgusting.
Posted by SteeleRedux, Friday, 22 September 2023 9:50:28 PM

Answer- I think SteeleRedux is "disgusting" but there you go. Josephus must have said something against SteeleRedux's ideology in order for him to get so upset. I suppose he'll double down now. If we don't fear "the truth" then we have no need to fear SteeleRedux as he'll keep hanging himself the longer the conversation goes on.

Steele cannot see it is the elite Uluru activits that are dividing this country by race, whichis a Marxist agenda. The genuine disadvantaged know nothing about the Voice and the Uluru Statement and they do not want Government interferrence in their lives. I want a unified nation one people of many races living equally together, supporting the disadvantaged of any race.

Well, well, well. Looky here. I was wondering where you two were having your leashes pulled from.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-09-23/white-supremacist-red-over-black-geoff-mcdonald-voice/102891560

"But then on January 30, the anti-Semitic website XYZ — founded by white supremacist David Hiscox — linked McDonald's work to the proposed Voice and described it as "communism by the back door".

Two days later, a new telegram channel, Aboriginal Voice Exposed (AVE) was created. It would go on to become one of the most shared anti-Indigenous and anti-Voice to Parliament spaces on Telegram.

Its very first post was a link to McDonald's documentary, which it claimed "exposes the Communist and New World Order agenda behind Aboriginal activism and the so-called Aboriginal Voice To Parliament"."

And

"A copy of the Blacklisted Research's video was shared more than 4,400 times on Facebook.

Since it was posted on Facebook on July 23, it has been shared almost twice as many times as any post by the official Yes23 campaign. It has outperformed most official Vote No material, including that of senator Jacinta Nampijinpa Price and No-vote advocate Warren Mundine, and most of One Nation leader Pauline Hanson's Facebook posts."

Useful idiots without original thoughts parroting narratives from the far right.

Well done the ABC. I had been bemused about the whole communist meme focus as it raised itself during the campaign. Josephus has probably been the most prolific user of the term:

"Take a look at the photo here of Anthony Albanese with Who/ None other than Marcia Langton and Thomas Mayo both communists. If you can trust the Communists, you may vote Yes, if not Vote NO!"

But now his little Toto CM is on the bandwagon as well:

"but the Communists don't care if the Aboriginals don't make it as long as the Communists get what they want."

Worker bee stuff. Pathetic.

OLO has really become just a place to post completely unoriginal memes, by unthinking drones, parroting hard right talking points.

It never use to be like this.

"White colonial elites regarded Aborigines as an inferior race requiring protection. Today the Aboriginal elites have taken over the task of treating Aborigines as if they were feeble and in need of the giant protection racket which the Aboriginal welfare industry has become. The irony is that Australians' well-intentioned decision in 1967 led to this sad, indeed shameful situation". (Sydney blogger)

The ANZ bank has bunged another $2 million to the Yes campaign, trying to buy votes. $20 million in bribes has now gone into the $100 million Albanese rort, from the likes of Qantas, BHP, Rio Tinto and Wesfarmers (the company that owns Bunnings, K-Mart and Target).

The views of big business in Australia are increasingly an echo of the government of the day.

. 9 out of 10 if the largest public companies are in sectors tightly regulated and heavily policed by the government.

. In Australia, once a business reaches a certain size, success is as much a product of political preferment as it is of expertise or innovation.

. As the reach of government grows chief executives have no alternative but to spend their time dealing not with the people who buy their goods and services but with politicians.

It's not hard to visualise the benefits Big Business will get from Comrade Albanese. Just look at Qantas for starters.

Kaz Ross appears to have links with China and the feminist movement- based at the University of Tasmania though she appears to have criticized China at times. It's often hard to find much detail on academic backgrounds their biases often hidden behind paywall's. Makes it difficult to determine the integrity of their argument at times- seemingly hidden in a black box of academic priestly inscrutability- and hence untrustworthiness as viewed by the principle of democratic transparency.

It's interesting how much so called white supremacists and neo-nazi's "promote books" given the communist accusation of illiteracy and stupidity. I'm interested in knowing what about Geoff McDonald's work has SteeleRedux frothing mouth.

In this age we can't trust the university priests.

It's interesting that the so called violent far-right, white supremacists, neo-nazi's, and anti-mandate crowd are trying to- shock- "force normal people to read".

ttbn said "The ANZ bank has bunged another $2 million to the Yes campaign, trying to buy votes."

Answer- Just means that those that are on the "No" side need to consider moving their banking to a different platform. Sounds like a desperate attempt to gain market share- but I could be wrong. Purchasing is a political act!

We need to trust our families motives more and universities less over what is in our enlightened self interest.

Steele believes I've been reading extremist views, which is incorrect. I've been listening to Marcia Langton and Thomas Mayo who are the influencers of the Uluru Statement and their agenda of VOICE, TREATY, TRUTH, REPERATIONS. Their World view is Marxist social justice for wrongs of previous generations. An eye for an eye, a life for a life. The Westminster system is forgiveness and living in reconciliation. Letting go of wrongs of past generations and together cooperating as equals. I lost friends in the second world war to Japanese, since then Dad sold dairy cattle to Japan 1948, had Japanese students exchange stay with us for 10 months schooling, and have relatives living in Japan and married to Japanese. Life must forgive the past and live for a better future.

CM

For many years I have used a credit union 100% owned by members. Not perfect, but definitely not banking barons. I would not touch a bank with a barge pole.

As of September 2023, UK banks are still closing bank accounts, for political reasons, at the rate "a thousand a day". I'm not aware of any such closures in Australia, but how long will it be before Australia follows on, as it always does with most things from carbon dioxide scaremongering to increased electricity prices and environmental vandalism with windmills and solar panels.

Whatever hoops unelected globalists and the UN hold out, our politicians jump through; which reminds me of something I saw last night.

That sneaky bastard, Albanese has signed up with the UN (no parliamentary involvement) to ban the gill netting of wild barramundi in Queensland. No consultation with the industry. They heard about it via a press release. No word from the Opposition, either.

If you want to know what the mainstream media (aka Pravda) is hiding from you, you must download the ADH TV app: the only conservative media left in Australia. There are still people who care about the future of Australia and Australians.

Bit of a laugh. Poor old Kamahl sobbingingly revealed that he is changing his Voice vote from No to Yes, after a blaktivist lied to him to him about the "terrible" things that happened to aborigines prior to 1967.

A lot of those Big Business and sporting code donations are probably going into searching for lies and liars - it's all they have.

Thanks ttbn. Yes member owned credit unions are probably the way to go. You can own shares in banks too I suppose. I guess I'd feel more comfortable with a credit union too. I know some people in Australia that have had their bank accounts closed for political reasons.

I'm on the way out & all I can say to the younger generations is, the crap you're heading for will be of your own making if you don't start thinking now !
Kick Labor out & don't ever let them back into policy & decision making again for the rest of your lives !
They're dictating via Democracy bleating ! Stop falling for it ! They're selling your freedom as fast as you let them !

he is changing his Voice vote from No to Yes
ttbn,
Looks like a choreographed & planned setup to me ! I met the bloke many years ago & he was a really nice chap in the 70's !
My guess is that he would have been pressured to do what he did.

Kamahl is 88 and probably more emotional these days, and easily conned by the lies of a couple of Yes huxters.

As for kicking out Labor … we have to kick out the lot of them.

I agree with Peter Smith, regular contributor to Quadrant Online, who says that politicians are "mainly corrupt". By that, he means that they are "in it for themselves" and, therefore, "blow with the wind".

By corrupt, Smith means they’re in it for themselves and therefore blow with the wind. They have to glad hand, grease palms and lick boots to get preselection. They start off compromised and its all downhill from there.

Given wets like Julian Leeser, Bridget Archer and Simon Birmingham in the Liberal party, there is every reason to think that the Liberals will be "embarking, in company with Labor and the Greens, on any number of future disastrous courses."

Kamahl has flipped again. He has gone back to a NO vote. Remember the character in 'A Very Little Britain'? "No, but yes, but no"

Looks more & more like he's being used by some callous elements in the Yes camp to take the focus off them !

Not sure if the man could be "used" by anybody.
He's always been too strong for that. However,
like quite a few people out there - he's probably
getting all the information together before he
makes his final decision. Many voters as we know
don't always tell pollsters and media the truth
as to how they are going to vote. They decide in
the polling booths on the day.

We've seen this from the results of supposedly
"un-loseable" elections in the past.

Indyvidual

Albanese was delighted to come up with the phrase "Kamahl-mentum" when Kamahl changed his vote the first time. Now that the old lad has changed again, what can Albanese say? 'Kamahl-de-mentum'; 'Kamahl-shovethevoice'. Maybe Kamahl will change his mind again. The Voice is sending some people nuts. Gawd help us if it is successful.

"Kamahl is 88 and probably more emotional these days". Unfortunately many once reaching the age of the octogenarian becomes unhinged, non compos mentis, to put it mildly they become dotty! Mr Kamalesvaran may have fallen victim to Octogenarianism, this affliction is common enough. Fortunately it never lasts beyond ten years, when a survivor thus becomes a nonagenarian, and develops Nonagenarianism in some cases, which unfortunately is similar to Octogenarianism but being on steroids, super dotty in other words!

super dotty in other words!
Paul1405,
You're that now & you're only in your teens mentally !

Some teens are very intelligent.

They usually don't crap all over the place
or need to wear nappies.

It seems that it suddenly dawned on Kamahl - or somebody other than an activist Yes liar told him - that the aboriginal industry is already getting $40 billion, every year, of taxpayers' money, and that that should be more than ample to do what the Voice would NOT do with even more taxpayers' money that the Voice would gobble up.

You would think that, with currently 44 aboriginal organisations under investigation for their spending, that alone would be enough to put the kibosh on the Voice - and perhaps it will.

They usually don't crap all over the place
or need to wear nappies.
Foxy,
Some but most do crap all over the place when using drugs & they do need stupid do-gooders to help them continue that parasitic existence !

The real parasites are those whose mission is to
distract, detract, and extract.

You can either be a seed or a parasite. You can
either give or take depending on your principle
of growth.

Perhaps Foxy many have discovered how much of what they give is being wasted in hand outs to totally undeserving "causes" & have decided enough is enough.

Dear Hassie,

Yes I do suspect that a lot of funding has been misdirected.
That's why we need people who can advise
and suggest solutions to the problems that exist in
their communities. They know what's needed. It will
be a better use of resources.

BTW - how are you?
Are you okay?

Warren Mundine put it right in his press club address.
http://www.msn.com/en-au/news/other/yes-campaign-built-on-a-pack-of-lies-warren-mundine/ar-AA1hg3DF?ocid=msedgntp&pc=U531&cvid=f7cf85f6150e4c04b684db647f35ab58&ei=7

http://www.skynews.com.au/australia-news/voice-to-parliament/reconciliation-has-two-parts-sorry-and-forgiveness-warren-mundine/video/d6e9b68048a6797db7a544ac98faee08

Hi Foxy, Good news story.

Had a group of Aboriginal folk turn up yesterday, about a dozen or so in a couple of old cars. Grandma, and her two daughters, one fella and a bunch of teens and youngsters. It was Brekky Club morning, sat them down, and then managed to get everyone a feed, some lollies and ice blocks for the kids, instant noddles, cereal and toasties, tea, coffee, juice, toast Vegemite etc and biscuits. All good, went on their way with a couple of family packs of groceries, personal hygiene pack, and fresh fruit & veg, bread, day old cakes and frozen meals. Don't know where they were heading.

p/s, We had a windfall, got the nod for part of the proceeds from this years Council Spring Festival/Carnival. The 4 days finished last Sunday, there was a good roll up. Battling to keep up with grocery demand, so I'll put it to the next ops meeting that we allocate the entire amount to basic grocery purchases.

The wonderful people on The Project bullied the gentlemanly Kamahl out of his correct belief that $40 billion dollars is wasted every year on the aboriginal industry, saying it was $4.5 billion.

Liars! A quick check with the Productivity Commission reveals that the amount is $39.5 billion. Near enough to 40 for anyone .

A further check reveals that the $40 billion wasted on the aboriginal industry is about the same as the amount spent on the defence of Australia.

Dear Paul,

I admire the work and effort that you put in to help
others. You see things at the grass roots level.
I've also got quite a bit on my plate at the moment
but nowhere near as much as you.

I count my blessings every day. Last week-end I had the
family over, it was so easy, and so rewarding. Tiring,
but rewarding.

My oldest son and his family may be moving to Europe
for a while. There's a job opp. on offer for a few years.
This means the whole family will be gone for a while.
I've got mixed feelings about that. Still it's his and his
wife's decision. But it's hard not to worry.

A further check reveals that the $40 billion wasted on the aboriginal industry is about the same as the amount spent on the defence of Australia.
Posted by ttbn

Answer- Thanks for the information ttbn. Very concerning sounds like an extreme amount of spending on a per capita basis in favour of Australian Aboriginal peoples. Surprising that they are still in poverty despite their privileged financing situation.

Hi Foxy, another good news story.

A bloke in his 40's whose never been homeless in his life. He was so embarrassed by his situation, so apologetic, so humble.

Recently we had our homeless friend doing it tough, during the mild winter nights, supplied him a sleeping bag, blanket etc, the outside power is left on, the outside toilet left open (sometimes a problem). With permission he was sleeping rough on the hall veranda, (not unusual as we can have anything up to 6 or more people sleeping on the concrete on the veranda over night, there is no need to ask permission, just keep it clean and tidy up your stuff in the mornings). The good news, he managed to get accommodated and move on, a couple of week back he returned one Monday morning, not to sleep, but to thank everyone for their support when he was down, and insisted on donating $50 to the cause. How fantastic is that.

We found two young folk, in their 20's, sleeping in our garden, softer than the veranda concrete, last Monday morning. They are another John Dory in themselves. I had the job of approaching these kids to find out their situation/circumstance, it was interesting, Sometimes you have got to ask hard questions. Do not ask those kinds of questions and before establishing their short term needs. They said they were okay, and left it at that. A feed and on their way.

Dear Paul,

Thank you for sharing.

Incredible stories. We're lucky to have people
like you in our community.

CM

There has always been a lot more per person spent on aborigines, with little result, and with 44 aboriginal organisations now under investigation after allegations of fraud.

Yet they want more, and Commissar Albanese wants to give it to them.

Noel Pearson is still fighting the war, attempting in his mind to get a peace deal. He demonstrated suppressed anger. Aboriginals have never had it so good; they have been granted land rights and the right to practice their culture on their identified lands. Aboriginals affected by colonization have been given an apology for the past, but in his mind the war continues, and only one side is fighting, the other has surrendered. It is obvious sorry in his mind is not enough, despite all the funds poured into one race of citizens, and the opportunities they receive to join Western culture.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-09-27/live-updates-noel-pearson-addresses-the-national-press-club/102897378

Kudos Josephus and ttbn

Noel Pearson tries to identify two nations the 3% "US" the ancient culture and the 97% "YOU". He imagines that the $40,000,000,000 spent on aboriginal programs each year with hundreds of advisory groups to parliament, including his own voice spoken in public, is not enough. If he knows the problems, he is guilty of neglect if he has taken no action. He should be taking charge of his family and children, not expecting others to take responsibility for them.

He mentioned rheumatic heart disease - it is caused by bacteria entering the body. continue to live in bush conditions without proper hygiene can be cured not by a Voice, buy by proper hygiene.

Warren Mundine Utube.

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?pglt=43&q=Utube+Warren+Mundine+ABC+Press+Club&cvid=7ede2e27d65544e5bc1aba127f7d5832&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOdIBCTM3OTYwajBqMagCALACAA&PC=U531&ru=%2fsearch%3fpglt%3d43%26q%3dUtube%2bWarren%2bMundine%2bABC%2bPress%2bClub%26cvid%3d7ede2e27d65544e5bc1aba127f7d5832%26gs_lcrp%3dEgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOdIBCTM3OTYwajBqMagCALACAA%26FORM%3dANSPA1%26PC%3dU531&view=detail&mmscn=vwrc&mid=C6B9722D1DDA37AA8D71C6B9722D1DDA37AA8D71&FORM=WRVORC

Dear Canem Malum,

You say,

"Thanks for the information ttbn. Very concerning sounds like an extreme amount of spending on a per capita basis in favour of Australian Aboriginal peoples. Surprising that they are still in poverty despite their privileged financing situation."

Firstly ttbn pulls figures out of his backside with gay abandon and absolutely zero consideration for the truth. He rarely if ever references any of his data and for good reason, it is fantasy spewed out to support whatever crap he is running with.

The truth is the last Productivity commission's report on Indigenous spending was in 2017.

The vast bulk of it was on the normal mainstream spending all non-indigenous Australians receive anyway like Medicare or primary school education. It amounted to $27,396,900,000. Indigenous specific spending was $6,028,100,000.

It can all be found in the Productivity Commission's report which can be found here:
http://www.pc.gov.au/ongoing/indigenous-expenditure-report/2017/ier-2017-standard-tables.pdf

So when poodles like ttbn call it "wasted" then so is education and medical support for all Australians. It is a racist position.

Now you don't have the ignorance excuse.

Kudos Steele, double kudos!

Bravo!

Funny. SteeleRedux always says he doesn't take any notice of what I say, but here he is, labelling me a racist; a racist poodle, no less.

References? Anybody can find references on Google that fit their fantasies. The ratbags and wackjobs are not all on OLO: there are plenty like SteeleRedux out there in la la land.

SteeleRedux himself could not post a word without his references. All he does is pass on the dubious rantings of other people - good little messenger that he is.

And, it appears, he expects us to believe, the money squandered on the aboriginal industry has reduced since 2017. If he didn't fossick around looking only for 'references' that suit his politics, he wouldn't talk such bullshite. If he read a bit more, or at all, rather than scanning the internet, he wouldn't be as ignorant as he is.

I tapped his you-beaut reference, by the way, and nothing happens.

I love the last sentence where he has the gall to mention 'ignorance'.

The Three Commos roll in ignorance like pigs in mud.

Thanks Foxy but it really is getting a bit over the top isn't it. No matter how much you repeatedly put things under some people's noses they keep their minds closed.

Of course there will be the toxic little turds on here who wouldn't shift from putting up mindless little diatribes like broken records.

But some of those who I thought would have at least been able to see both sides of this and had at least two brain cells to rub together have swallowed the No campaign's rubbish without a thought.

I am getting the distinct impression that the sense of fair go has really taken a holiday in this country at the moment.

"Proportionally, we are the most incarcerated people on the planet. We are not an innately
criminal people. Our children are aliened from their families at unprecedented rates. This
cannot be because we have no love for them. And our youth languish in detention in obscene
numbers. They should be our hope for the future.
These dimensions of our crisis tell plainly the structural nature of our problem. This is the
torment of our powerlessness.
We seek constitutional reforms to empower our people and take a rightful place in our own
country. When we have power over our destiny our children will flourish. They will walk in
two worlds and their culture will be a gift to their country.
We call for the establishment of a First Nations Voice enshrined in the Constitution. "

If people "who wouldn't shift from putting up mindless little diatribes like broken records" are "toxic little turds", SteeleRedux is describing himself: a name-calling ignoramus who always resorts to abuse because that's all he has to work with. Rarely initiates a thread, but rants and raves against anyone who does who is not one of the other too obnoxious windbags infesting the site.

Kudos ttbn. I've given my position on Aboriginal self determination in the past but the voice isn't about self determination of Aboriginals. Therefore I'm voting "Hell No"!
Thanks again for the information ttbn. Claims need to be fact checked but some sources are more trustworthy than others- sometimes the corruption in society is so great nothing can be trusted.
It's interesting to consider case studies of the weird and wonderful ways in which claims are distorted and corrupted. Take care ttbn.

Hi Foxy,

I must remind you, you have not been authorised to give out KUDOS! That is the exclusive domain of the KUDOS KID. Kudos is in limited supply around here, like pixie dust at the circus, and is only given on those very rare occasions to the most rightest and deserving of Forumites!

Hi Steele,

Is it a possibility that many on the 'NO' side are not really concerned with "A Voice to parliament" as such, that's not what this referendum is about for them, but they see a 'YES' vote as an attempt by a people and their supporters to wrestle some degree of authority from those who represent them and their social order, and have exercised the power of authority over Aboriginal people for a couple of hundred years. AND any change, they don't bloody like it! To this cohort the maintenance of the established hierarchy of authority in society is paramount.

Good to see the Good Ole' Boy from Alabama will be voting 'HELL NO'.

How sucessful aboriginals feel that are not looking to divide.
http://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/stan-yarramunua-dryden-indigenous-man-explains-to-sam-newman-why-he-wishes-the-voice-referendum-wasn-t-taking-place/ar-AA1hlUlP?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=2ff43d6909474638a8211b58c9f4ca75&ei=17

Quote:"Stan Yarramunua Dryden, a world-renowned Aboriginal artist and businessman, said he felt the Voice was being pushed by out-of-touch 'social elites'.
'All these people that are pushing the Voice and all the rest of it is to keep themselves in jobs and their own immediate families,' he told Sam Newman and Don Scott's podcast You Cannot Be Serious.

'They're not thinking about the people living in tin shacks in Alice Springs and Darwin and Broome.'

He added: 'People have jumped onto it, the people with agendas, it's a cottage industry of division and people get delighted if they can create division because it gives them a sense of power and it gives them a source of income.'
Mr Dryden, who came from a deeply impoverished background with an alcoholic father before making millions as an artist, said people should 'get over it'.

'I'm Australian. All the stuff we're all talking about as Australians, there's something bigger than all of us anyway.'

How each of us votes will be up to us to decide
at the polling booth on the day.

The results will be known later that evening, hopefully.

Australian voters will make their decision.

One which we all will have to live with.

Each of us can merely hope that the votes will be what
we think is right.

But today - the outcome is still not certain.

CM

Yes. We all need to take care. From some of the comments made by Yes supporters, the fact that Jacinta Price now needs 24/7 police protection is understandable.

One has to only look at what's been happening at some
rallies. What is objectionable, what is dangerous about
extremists as I posted earlier is not that they're
extreme but that they are intolerant. The evil is now
what they say about their cause, but what they say about
their opponents.

The rally in Melbourne in front of Parliament House
last night by the anti-Daniel Andrews - had a strong police
presence. And rightly so. This rally was run by the "World
Wide Rallies for "Freedom". Professional network Who rally
to the extreme - in this case against COVID lockdowns
and vaccines - bearing shocking signs on display.

Police warned people to stay out of the CBD.

Dear Calem Malem,

You bleat: "Claims need to be fact checked but some sources are more trustworthy than others- sometimes the corruption in society is so great nothing can be trusted."

What an idiotic post-truth statement.

Ttbn made an utterly false statement about the Productivity Commission figures. I provide you with the correct figures and a link to the Productivity Commission's own report and you are now throwing shade on them? My God. Doesn't the truth matter anymore in your world?

Yet just before you were happily applauding distorted figures without a source posted by an anonymous internet person.

It must be a hoot living in a world without the inconvenience of facts lapping up poodle vomit.

Extremism thrives amid ignorance, intimidation,
and cowardice.

CM

The aggressive maniac, SteeleRedux, needs to be ignored for the nasty boofhead he is. He insults people in the first few words of his posts; he is out of control. His only supporters are Foxy and Paul 1405, who don't seem to realise that allying themselves with such an extremist taints their reputations even more than their own behaviour does.

I would be surprised if complaints haven't been made against SteeleRedux. There certainly would have been complaints made against him if he spewed his nasty rubbish on Twitter or Facebook.

But, I suppose it's best to let him run, and show everybody just what sorts of people society is up against.

I just hope his appalling behaviour is not putting off decent people who might be able provide interesting ideas and opinions we might benefit from. I imagine their would be people who look at OLO but not touch it because they don't want to be abused. And, it is abuse, not just healthy argument.

The Moderator of this Forum is quite fair. He allows
arguments (and abuse) from both sides of the table.
If you take up the mantle yourself you can't complain
when someone else hits back.

I admire posters like David F., Banjo Paterson and others
who are able to control themselves and refuse to react
to0 abuse. They simply correct the misinformation being
spruiked. That's not easy to do.

I've lost many sleepless nights - wondering - "Why me?
I'm not that person?"

After a while you realize that some people have made up
their minds about you and are too set in their
ways and not capable of change.

Then all you can do is say:

"Are you f*ing kidding me?" And walk away.

Thanks Josephus and ttbn.
Yes supporter Emeritus Professor Denise Ferris spitting in the No Voters face concurs with my experience as to the intolerance of the Communist Marxists.

This academic could be considered as a representative of a certain standard character archetype of so called "modern academia" and the academy or university and it's dangerous effects on downstream institutions.

Sadly many academics appear to have dangerous communist beliefs whether they went into academia with these ideas or they were indoctrinated by the university environment.

Traditionalists shouldn't try to pitch their ideas to Communists but to the normal people. It's often pointless to argue with Marxists because we are the enemy in their reality. As Hebrew Philosopher and Writer Ayn Rand and German Philosopher Nietzsche say Marxist Nihilists try to short circuit the means and try to go straight to the ends- cause to effect- substitute thought for feeling.

I often find myself getting distracted by communist argument rather than focusing on the important. But of course at times it is important to warn against communist ploys.

For Marxist Communist Nihilists our very ideas and cultures need to be exterminated let alone our physical bodies- this is exactly what occurred in Maoist China in their purge.

The irony is these same communist nihilists will promote equality, peace, transparency, fairness, etc in public however in private and action they don't appear to believe in these things. With case studies of communist policy in the west it becomes apparent that they are totalitarian.

They seem to say to new communists that all lies are valid because the evil of the other side is so great. Muslims apparently have a similar concept of taquia in which it's ok to lie to infidels.

What should we do about the scurge of communism? What have they done about ideas similar to communism in the past? Rather than being reactive against communism is there a pro-something philosophy that renders the threat of communism as irrelevant? Maybe there needs to be a layering of different approaches

I believe that localism could be an answer or part of the answer. Aristotle's idea of virtue based reality is very powerful. Our cultural heritage is important- our families are important- our genetics are important.

Communists seem to favour nurture over nature especially in the west- ideas over genetics- but both are important.

Just because Traditionalists believe that genetics are important and should be preserved doesn't mean that we believe that other genetics should be destroyed- but context is important

I've come to believe that communist ideas are dangerous to society especially to western society and we need to come up with strategies to mitigate against them for the survival of society. Perhaps these strategies will involve jail, access to media, education, etc for proponents. Some of these strategies have perhaps already been used against us and so there is already a mirror communist model that could be used- perhaps in a modified form.

We could return children to parents to their natural place- from what have perhaps become communist training grounds for your children.

There are computer systems that create social systems based on real grass roots rather than fake grass astro-turf communism.

The people need to take back control over their own governance, their own families, their own children, their own streets, towns, nations.

Capitalism vs communism. Is it really in the genes?

Here's an interesting link:

http://medpagetoday.com/opinion/themethodsman/72224

Here's another link:

http://reddit.com/r/GGdiscussion/comment/8b72an/capitalism_vs_communism_is_it_really_in_the_genes/

I hope this one works.

"I (ttbn) would be surprised if complaints haven't been made against SteeleRedux" If so they can only come from YOU and those of your ilk.

What a load of sanctimonious clap-trap, you bully and abuse, and give as good as you get. So crawl back under your rock, and leave it off, particularly with Foxy, until next time.

Dear Foxy,

I admire those posters too.

I have come to accept that the world has changed and that tools we use to be able to employ to limit the poison purveyors are much less effective because of how they conduct themselves now.

This thread is 32 posts long and Josephus has contributed 21 of them. Most of it filled with hard right, toxic RWNJ talking points. If challenged on a particular point he just ignores it and moves on bring up another 10 more.

Look at Canem Malum. I know there is nothing I could say to move him off a particularly nasty ideology. When challenged there is no acknowledgement just a quick change of topic. It is like engaging with an automaton.

As to the truth of things Daniel Andrews has called out the Cretin on more than one occasion.

Whenever she runs one of her lies he just will not let her get away with it, telling her "I'm not going to stand here and have things that are absolutely incorrect put to me in an attempt to perhaps put them to me so often that they become the truth"
http://youtu.be/wY07bvoTxuw?si=iZ3kVJOFfiVZj2t8

That is what the RWNJs on OLO attempt all the time. They think if they keep repeating untruths, even though people like me have clearly shown that is what they are, they are back the next week with the very same lies.

Well I'm not on here every day but when I do pop in and see them doing the same rubbish of course I'm going to call it out and any sense of me being nice about it disappear a long while ago.

Yet I generally do not let fly at anyone who hasn't gone after someone else on the forum in just that manner. I am bemused by any of the RWNJs who might complain after what they dish out.

As to moderation I ascertained a fair while ago that the rules had been loosened in a nod to 'free speech'. This is the playground now and 'whack a mole' is the game.

Dear Steele,

Thank you for your comments.

It becomes difficult playing whack-a-mole with trained
snipers. (Joke).

To be serious. I try to focus on the positive.
I try to keep in mind that negative comments are only
a small part of the Forum so I try to focus instead
on positive inter actions with others and not allow
the negativity to bring me down.

People get joy out of different things. For me it's
always been small things - like a kind word. Making
someone smile. Helping someone. And that doesn't
cost much but it can achieve a great deal.

I was raised in a family where good manners mattered.

Of course it becomes more challenging when the negative
attacks and insults increase and are allowed. When
the standard of discussion develops into insults
instead of well reasoned arguments - than it becomes more
difficult to communicate.

I am so grateful to have people such as yourself, Paul,
and so many others posting. You are pluses. The minuses
are a minority.

You would think that someone as heavily dependent on third party opinions for her posts as Foxy is would be able to present them in one go, instead of all the 'oops' and 'pardons', and looking like a fool for something that we all know is where she got her 'opinion' in the first place.

CM,

I have no doubt that communism is seeping back. I'm not saying that some people are Communists; I leave that for people who are actual Communist Party members. I am referring to the political ideology of communism that most people these days, certainly the young, don't understand, and don't know that it is the doctrine they are adhering to. Nor do they know about the horrors of communism.

I like your idea of "localism". Communistic ideas have been part of another hideous doctrine, globalisation. Trade with China, which is NOT OK just because rich people want to be richer, and to hell with human rights, freedoms, jobs and local manufacturing of vital things, including medicines that Beijing can block anytime they wish to in their ongoing war against the West.

The Albanese government is madly trying to change the population - with little resistance from the Opposition. Our only solution is to change our political class. (and make them fear us as politicians used to fear the voting public) Voters must learn to use the preferential system intelligently, and not leave it to their preferred candidate to tell them what to do. They need to take more interest in politics generally, and learn more about the minor parties and independents, instead of taking notice of what the mainstream politicians say about the options. It's only the possible success of these options that frightens Labor, Liberal and the Greens.

Dear Foxy,

You say "To be serious. I try to focus on the positive." and so you should.

And you have been remarkedly good about things, particular with fixated poodles.

So feel free to leave it to me to pop in every now and again to give them a clip around the ears.

I see Steele believes his superiority, and dictatorial stand- he would make a good Communist. He promotes half-truths as facts and misrepresents other people's posts with Left wing views.

Estimated expenditure per person in 2012-13 was $43,449 for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Australians, compared with $20,900 for other Australians (a ratio of 2.08 to 1 — an increase from a ratio of 1.93 to 1 in 2008-09) yet it does not yield benefits to the disadvantaged.

We sat down with the Productivity Commission. We looked at the Indigenous space. $30 billion is spent in this space annually. $30 billion on 500,000 people and you still see the problems.

Fact check warren Mundine 2011 -2012,
Quote "I have reviewed this FactCheck. Mundine was right on the figure of $30 billion; total direct expenditure on services for Indigenous Australians in 2012-13 was estimated to be $30.3 billion, as detailed on page one of the Productivity Commission’s 2014 report. Based on the 2011 Census, the Indigenous population was approximately 550,000 people, with most living in urban areas. Researcher Sara Hudson’s August 2016 report, published by the Centre for Independent Studies, outlines the continued waste and duplication of government funding as raised by Mundine. – Dennis Foley."

"Warren Mundine’s broader point that current spending is not yielding results needs further attention. The government’s Closing the Gap targets are nowhere near being met, and in some cases, widening, suggesting that these programs are, by and large, failing. Policy logic underpinning spending should be examined. – Elise Klein."

Jose'

"Closing the Gap targets are nowhere near being met, and in some cases, widening, suggesting that these programs are, by and large, failing."

AND people like YOU, at the very least want more of the same, but we know your real belief is that our indigenous brothers and sisters are undeserving and should be left to their own disastrous fate.

Josephus

You are only encouraging these idiots.

Noel Pearson receives $500,000,000 p/a, for his programs in Cape York and none of his programs show any changes in the society he represents. He is a radical left Marxist.

Quote Wicki "Noel Pearson (born 25 June 1965) is an Australian lawyer and founder of the Cape York Partnership, an organisation promoting the economic and social development of Cape York. He is also the Founder of Good to Great Schools Australia an organisation dedicated to lifting education outcomes for all Australian students."
[schools closed and children are now bussed miles]

"Pearson came to prominence as an advocate for Indigenous Australians' rights to land – a position he maintains.[1] Since the end of the 1990s his focus has encompassed a range of additional issues: he has strongly argued that Indigenous policy needs to change direction, notably in relation to welfare, substance abuse, child protection, education and economic development. Pearson criticises approaches to these problems which, while claiming to be "progressive", in his opinion merely keep Indigenous people dependent on welfare and out of the "real economy". He outlined this position in 2000 in his speech, The light on the hill.[2]

In the first decade of the 2000s, Pearson began outlining an alternative to traditional left-wing politics that he called radical centrism.[3][4] One part of his selected writings is entitled "The Quest for a Radical Centre".[5]

In November 2019, it was announced that Pearson would be one of 20 members of the Senior Advisory Group set up to help co-design the Indigenous voice to government.[6]"

"He is a radical left Marxist."

Answer- Thanks for your comments Josephus. Point of order though. I would say "I suspect/ think/ ... that he may be a radical left Marxist". I think that I agree with your understanding. That way it is clear that the comment is just your opinion or understanding not "a fact". It's still "ok" to give your opinion in a democracy. Even if it is actually a verified fact it's probably best to couch things in these terms. Unfortunately often language is used in shorthand form- on OLO the number of words is limited too- but some have used this sort of language to attack people such as Alex Jones through the courts. The ADL and SPLC seem to have used these apparently awful underhanded tactics but that sadly is the world we currently live in.

Josephus simpers: “He promotes half-truths as facts and misrepresents other people's posts with Left wing views.”

My God what gall.

Just look at the rest of his post. No attribution as usual. Why? To make it difficult for people to fact check the weasel.

For those who can be bothered here is the link: http://theconversation.com/factcheck-qanda-is-30-billion-spent-every-year-on-500-000-indigenous-people-in-australia-64658

You will see in between the blocks of text Josephus posted is the very clear statement:

“While it’s true Warren Mundine used the most up-to-date figures, his quote didn’t quite convey the full story. It didn’t get across the fact that only a really small chunk of the overall Indigenous spending is on Indigenous-specific programs. Most is on mainstream programs.
As the article notes, Productivity Commission estimates that only $5.6 billion or 18.6% of the $30 billion Mundine refers to is provided through Indigenous-specific or targeted services. The Productivity Commission does not examine how much of this $5.6 billion actually goes to Indigenous organisations within community or Indigenous peoples themselves – and how much is spent on government businesses.”

It totally supports the position I have been putting, which he found the temerity to label 'half-truths”.

He really can't help himself.

Hi Steele,

Unfortunately Proud Boy Jose's posts are littered with the lies and deceptions of a bigoted racists. The most galling thing about many racists like Jose', is they don't see themselves as being racists, in fact quite the opposite, they see themselves as the benign people of virtue who only want to help their black brothers and sisters, but they offer nothing except negative criticism and hate speak.

Kudos Kid, you really are orbiting somewhere out there to the far right of Pluto! Your fixation with Communists and Communism, defies reality, is that common practice with you Good Ole' Boys down in Alabama?

"Yabber, yabber, yabber, said the monkey to the chimp" ( Dr. Doolittle).

Cut the crap. Express your opinions on October 14th.

Kamahl, noticed in all the protests organized by the yes campaign the Communist flag was present. Beside this the protests present outside No campaigns of Jacinta Price the Marxist league were the major players with amplification shouting "Go to Hell Jacinta Price'. The Yes agenda is purely Marxist socialist, and they deceive the good will of the ignorant public.

http://www.smh.com.au/education/millions-flow-to-noel-pearson-s-education-organisation-against-department-advice-20220202-p59t8z.html

Millions of taxpayer dollars are being poured into an Aboriginal education venture headed by prominent Indigenous leader Noel Pearson against departmental advice to the education minister that it should not receive any more federal government money.

A Sydney Morning Herald and Age investigation has spoken to more than 20 current and former employees of Good to Great Schools Australia, the not-for-profit education organisation founded and co-chaired by Mr Pearson, who say the organisation is “on its knees” under the leadership of chief executive Bernardine Denigan.

Good to Great Schools has received $10.8 million to launch a new program this year, despite evaluations that found the organisation’s previous program was not ready for scale and did not lead to any statistically significant results when compared with other schools.

The organisation’s flexible literacy for remote schools program - which received $31.55 million in federal government funding between 2014 and 2020 - served a peak of 35 schools across the Northern Territory, Queensland and Western Australia in 2017.

But schools dropped off each year until just eight were still participating at the end of 2020.

CM,

I have no doubt that communism is seeping back. I'm not saying that some people are Communists; I leave that for people who are actual Communist Party members. I am referring to the political ideology of communism that most people these days, certainly the young, don't understand, and don't know that it is the doctrine they are adhering to. Nor do they know about the horrors of communism.

I like your idea of "localism". Communistic ideas have been part of another hideous doctrine, globalisation. Trade with China, which is NOT OK just because rich people want to be richer, and to hell with human rights, freedoms, jobs and local manufacturing of vital things, including medicines that Beijing can block anytime they wish to in their ongoing war against the West.

The Albanese government is madly trying to change the population - with little resistance from the Opposition. Our only solution is to change our political class. (and make them fear us as politicians used to fear the voting public) Voters must learn to use the preferential system intelligently, and not leave it to their preferred candidate to tell them what to do. They need to take more interest in politics generally, and learn more about the minor parties and independents, instead of taking notice of what the mainstream politicians say about the options. It's only the possible success of these options that frightens Labor, Liberal and the Greens.
Posted by ttbn, Thursday, 28 September 2023 1:51:39 PM

Well put ttbn. Kudos.

Generally I don't have an issue with people making money but there is a point where making money becomes genocidal treason.
Ayn Rand (and Nietzsche) in her Objectivist philosophy and "Atlas Shrugged" argues that productive people create life whereas those that resent productive people create death. Nietzsche in Genealogy Of Morals compares two philosophical codes- Knightly/ Priestly codes. The Knightly code defines goodness as basically the Hebrew academic Abraham Maslow's Hierarchy Of Needs.

Ayn Rand misses/ ignores some subtleties but can probably be excused to highlight the bones of the argument- somewhat biased in favour of Hebrew's and racist multiculturalism- but her New York feedback group seems to have been structured to suit the western mind- which is why she has been so influential.

SteeleRedux seems to be unable to accept any philosophy but Communism- in my view this makes him totalitarian. 100 million people were apparently murdered for ideology under Communism's global totalitarian view and yet those advocating Communist ideas seem to present anti-Communists as global genocidal murderers.

Dear Steele,

My apologies for not responding earlier. I had used up
my posts and had to wait.

I appreciated the way you supported me. Your support means
a great deal.

ttbn accuses me of being heavily depended on expert opinions.
What I do is present information from a wide variety of
sources, experts in their relative fields and provide
accompanying links as appropriate.

Most people do the same on this forum. It's an occupational
habit for me. He then says I look like a fool because of the
typing errors I make when presenting links at times. I've
explained in several discussions that I need an eye operation
because my sight is failing. So I do make typos.

His thinking that I'm a fool says more about him than it
does about me.

BTW: - Where does he get his sources of information from to
make his opinions ?

It appears that no matter what I do or say - he has to attack.
Then it's my fault for reacting.

Trying to stay positive is becoming harder to do.

Ayn Rand did criticize those business people that used their productive influence to stop other people producing. She argued that in order to become wealthy- products need to be created that people value- the productive should benefit from their efforts. Creating things of value makes life easier for everyone- even the poor- commodities are cheaper- innovative and time saving products give everyone more time. In theory production creates life. Scotsman Adam Smith in Wealth Of Nations talked about how division of labour creates value in a "production line". Other theorists such as French gunsmith Honoré LeBlanc talk about the value created by "standardized interchangeable parts". Henry Ford invented the "moving production line".

http://www.history.com/topics/inventions/interchangeable-parts
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interchangeable_parts

Ubiquitous consumer goods became possible through these developments.

CM

I just heard a truism. The ALP is not interested in saving Australia: it is interested only in saving the ALP.

The No rally from a bunch of white wing extremists>
http://www.rebelnews.com/sydney_s_no_to_the_voice_rally_rejects_racial_division?utm_campaign=ay_sydrally_250923&utm_medium=email&utm_source=therebel

Thanks ttbn- Kudos- yes when an organisation forgets it's purpose it loses it's relevance.

That's why the Liberal Party lost the last election.
And will probably lose the next one unless they
change their out-moded tactics.

Josephus,

True to form off with another quick diversion rather than addressing being found out.

So why don't you tell everyone why you wilfully and with intent chose not to include those paragraphs from the site you quoted from?

It is one thing to try and prosecute your case with sources but you quite obviously read all the material, so what possesses you to completely ignore it?

How can you ever complain about people not taking you seriously when you do something as blatant as that?

Dear Canem Malum,

Cutting to the chase when you state: "Claims need to be fact checked but some sources are more trustworthy than others- sometimes the corruption in society is so great nothing can be trusted." do you believe the Productivity Commission is corrupt? Or does it only seem corrupt when it conflicts with your internal narrative? Not a pleasant way of going through life I would have3 thought.

Dear Foxy,

I really don't know why you engage with the poodle. Nasty snappy little creatures should just be ignored. I figured out a long while ago he was an obvious waste of space with a propensity to use the term "lapdog" when deriding others, thus his identifier.

In the end it isn't sheep stations. I really don't get offended by anything that is posted on here, because with everyone being anonymous what would normally be behind a façade is being openly expressed. It is interesting to see what makes people tick.

Dear Steele,

You say what my husband has said all along. And you're
both right of course. I kept hoping that people would
become more reasonable given enough time - and if I took
a more tolerant approach. I'm beginning to see that
it's not working. And never will - no matter what I do.

It's funny - my in-laws had a miniature black poodle.
The cutest creature. My girlfriend had a large black
poodle. It was so elegant.

So I'm used to black dogs. I've actually grown up having
dogs as part of the family. But the difference here is
that the chosen moniker is for a "bad dog," and the black
dog here is one if taken from folklore refers to a demonic
hellhound. That's the difference. It's the intent and
context that matters.

I am concerned with some of the fixations expressed.
The obsessions expressed over and over again -
I find disturbing and not normal. More akin
to derangements.

As you and my husband suggest - best to ignore and leave
them to their vacuous babblings with like-minded posters
in future.

Aboriginal advantages.
http://www.facebook.com/watch?v=964215314686408

Aboriginal "advantages":

Shorter life expectancy.

Higher rates of infant mortality.

Poorer health.

Lower levels of education and employment.

Higher incarceration rates.

Not being listened to and having decisions made for them.

Self-determination not allowed.

Who could possibly object to all these "advantages?"

They should be happy to leave things as they are.

Steele cannot get over the fact that:
Quote: "The same report also found that:
Estimated expenditure per person in 2012-13 was $43,449 for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Australians, compared with $20,900 for other Australians (a ratio of 2.08 to 1 — an increase from a ratio of 1.93 to 1 in 2008-09)."

Then you have royalties paid directly to aboriginals from mining and other companies for use of lands.

Foxy believes the lies that the Voice will solve these problems.
The problems exist despite Billions being spent to overcome these problems. Now she wants an additional bureaucratic system installed for the Voice of aboriginal activists.

They just need to move into a Western lifestyle like most aboriginals and abandon the dust, bush food scavenging, flies, and smoke. The Voice will not change their choice of culture. See Noel Pearsons school projects for levels of education failures. It will not change under the VOICE. She should listen to aboriginals who have achieved self-determination without a Voice in Canberra, it is a fantasy that Canberra will give them self-determination.

Quote: "The Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Social Justice Commissioner conducted a survey of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people’s perspectives on the Declaration in 2012. Participants in the survey identified the following examples of how self-determination can be exercised:

through our own representative bodies
through our own schools, justice systems, health systems
by having control over our lives
by being able to participate in decisions that affect us
through being subject to our own laws
by establishing our own government
by establishing our own sovereign state."

This is what self-determination means to the activist. Note by establishing our own Government and laws. That is what Foxy pursues.

No. That is wrong.

This has nothing to do with Foxy or anyone else.
This is what our First Nations people have asked for.
To advise the government of the day on laws and
policies that affect them - and what will work
in their communities - because government solutions
without their consultation have
not worked thus far and the money has been mis-directed.

Why not give them a chance - when nothing else has worked?

Josephus,

You are doing it again. Diversion, diversion, diversion.

I will ask directly again.

Why did you exclude the paragraph in between the two that you quoted which showed exactly what I had been putting?

For your information.
Taken from the following link:

http://theconversation.com/the-voice-alone-wont-solve-the-issues-facing-indigenous-people-everyone-has-to-do-that-work-206676#

Indigenous leaders, scholars, and community members
have spent decades suggesting solutions to inequities
in this country, which still have not been implemented.

For years communities have called asking to be heard
in government. They now have a chance to hopefully
with the Voice assist in informing government on
policy and legal decisions that impact on their lives.

Having a few Aboriginal politicians in parliament who
also represent their wider electorates is not enough.
Indigenous people need a Voice that represents them
so they can be heard and listened to.

Of course the Voice can't solve all the deeply entrenched
bigotry in Australian society, media, and institutions.

The efforts of the social imbalance caused by colonisation
impacts on us all. And whether we like to admit it or not
the reason that it continues - is because people in power
and the wider (whiter) community continue to benefit
from it.

Of course, aboriginals have not benefited from colonization, just look at Marcia Langton, Megan Davis, Noel Pearson, Linda Burney all totally disadvantaged and uneducated, and homeless - poor aboriginals. They need a Voice - YES!

Yes but John Howard, Tony Abbott, now Peter Dutton,
Barnaby Joyce, et al, wouldn't
give it to them preferring to keep them in their
place and have full control

Proud Boy Jose'

Your extreme racism is evident in every post you make. You would gain more respect from others if you dropped that silly pretence that you are; "a friend of the black fella", and posted your true feelings of bigoted hatefulness that you harbour for our indigenous brothers and sisters. You are in good company there are several others of the 'No" brigade on the forum who hate Aboriginals just as much as you do.

Josephus, there you go again, deflect, deflect, deflect.

You are like a little frightened squid spurting ink to avoid having to justify your distortions and mistruths.

So why did you strip pertinent information from your quoting of the article you listed?

Why are you so keen to ignore information contrary to your position even when it stares you fully in the face?

Well I called it early and you are certainly true to form aren't you.

One day you might surprise us all and defend your position rather than running away. Then again the sun could fail to rise tomorrow as well.

In my view Paul1405, SteeleRedux, Foxy are the "extreme racists". I believe that many Traditionalists believe the same about Communists.

Steele, you failed to read the results of the percentage of spending. I read the lot and can comprehend the lot. I look for the bottom line in the figures and the results. E.G. Noel Pearson received $500,000,000 to establish multiple schools project in Cape York, to teach aboriginal languages and culture and how to live off the land. The schools are failing in their achievements and closing just leaving eight schools and children are being bussed, and the attendance is poor, and the education standards do not meet the education Departments standards. Read Wiki on his programs.

He wants a separate Nation, separate sovereignty, separate Government, separate flag, separate health system, separate laws, separate language, and separated land title. This is the agenda of the Voice he believes in. Two Nations existing together.

Canem Malum,

Could you please explain your statements about Steel,
Paul, and myself. I don't understand what you are trying
to say - and give evidence of why you think we are "racists."
Also what does communism have to do with any of this?

It all doesn't make any sense. And unfortunately repetitive.

Could you try a different approach please.

I was responding to Paul1405's comment about Josephus. Apart from that see my previous posts for a reason why "I believe" that Paul1405, SteeleRedux, Foxy are extreme racists and communists.

See my posts below...
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/user.asp?id=72968

Canem Malum,

I didn't aske for your posting record on the subject.
I asked for an explanation. I didn't get one.
You throw the term "communism" around so freely at
people you don't know who happen to have different
opinions to yours - and whose opinions are not set in
concrete and can change as different facts and evidence
comes to light.

With you however - it's a different story. You seem
fixated on just the one thought. That's unfortunate
and of course makes any future discourse impossible.

That is something I do regret - because from time to
time I have seen a glimmer of light coming from some of
what you post. But then it disappears. I'd like to
see that light return more often - which I think it
would if we were to meet in person and had a chat.

Perhaps that's foolishness on my part.

Still I have grown up with dogs - and they certainly have
not all been bad.

I don't expect Foxy to change her views based on my opinion. Hopefully something I say will raise questions in her own mind over her own beliefs and over time she will understand- or not- and in my view that will reduce tyranny and genocide in the world.

Communists (and Foxy) seem to believe in racist multiculturalism- mostly in the western world- to mix all cultures so that only one culture exists- this is racism and genocide- especially Anglo-genocide.

Perhaps just one of many examples of bigoted principles held by communists. What makes communists much worse than other forms of bigotry- their ideology as a universalist world principle and have shown at many levels in theoretical ideological propaganda and practice that they are willing to accomplish these ends by the deaths of 100 million people. Most nations do their killing with the sense of a measure of last resort. The Communists seemingly killed in the name of righteousness- even though they did seem to hide the bodies. Combining Trotsky's principle of permanent revolution- "in the communist universe it's horrific ideological murderous genocidal cleansing all the way down and forever for all time" (rather than the Earth being supported on recursive turtles all the way down).

Over time I investigate different things- sometimes contradictory and challenging- not everybody is able to confront a reality contrary to the lingua franca. But principles seem to be important to define reality- in existentialism being true to oneself is more important- to see reality through ones own eye's to attempt to understand the paradoxes of the human condition and different social theories to live a genuine existence- as much as we can.

Do you ever feel that the modern world is fake- twisted and distorted?

Sometimes I find myself making bad decisions because of faulty logic- but I think more than most (I'll let you work out for yourself what that means)- we are all fallible. Sometimes I look at the way people come to their views and see faults- despite their passion and authoritativeness- which can be influential in the minds of the weak.

Canem Malum,

Thank you for explaining some of your beliefs.
I find them very interesting and would love to
hear more from you. In some of your outlook you
remind me of my father. Who by the way was a
great admirer of Winston Churchill. I grew up
with a love of English Literature. Dad used to buy
books for me to read.
He would roll over in his grave at your referral
of me as a communist.

Anyhow - surely we can hold different opinions
without labeling people - surely? And people's
opinions do change depending on the circumstances.

I grew up with a love of tradition. But as I grew
older I realized that we can't just assume that
because something is old it is right.

Also today many of us have come to realize in
modern times that the "melting pot" need not mean
the end of particular ethnic identities or traditions.

CM

Did you mean communists (like Foxy)?

She is likely to snap back and say that she knows all about communism, and how her parents escaped it. She comes up with that one regularly.

Escaped it, or did they come to spread it?

Not knowing them, I will give them the benefit of the doubt. They were probably decent, hard working people typical of their generation and post-war immigrants.

But you know what they say about immigrants: they are OK, but it's the children born here (first generation Australians) that you have to watch.

ttbn,

My father's brother was tortured and horribly mutilated
to death in a very famous massacre. There's
a Memorial built in Lithuania. My father's
grief lasted a lifetime. Communism is and never will be
part of our family.

There's also much more to our family's story which I
shall not have mocked
on a public forum such as this one by clueless people.

We all have different
life experiences and it's easy to brush things aside and
disrespect others but to do that is
not something to be proud of - when those experiences
are what some families had to live through.

Showing respect and some empathy does not cost much.
And if that can't be done - than perhaps not to comment
at all would be the decent thing to do.

Thanks for your question ttbn
"Did you mean communists (like Foxy)?"

Answer- When I said "Communists (and Foxy) seem to believe in racist multiculturalism".

I was saying that both Communists and Foxy believe in a particular concept. Comes from the old saying about the metaphorical "rose"- "a rose by any other name is still a rose". So if someone believes in many communist principles they may be effectively a communist- even if they don't know what a communist is- or don't identify as a communist. Obviously there is some subtlety here.

The same goes the other way- even if someone calls themselves a communist- but they don't believe in the principles of communism- they may not be a communist.

Some argue that woke-ism, crtical race theory, feminism (there are four generational ideologies of feminism), gay politics, multiculturalism, socialism, etc are communism by another name.

Question- "She is likely to snap back and say that she knows all about communism, and how her parents escaped it. She comes up with that one regularly. Escaped it, or did they come to spread it? Not knowing them, I will give them the benefit of the doubt. They were probably decent, hard working people typical of their generation and post-war immigrants."

Answer- In my view when I see the danger of Foxy's views I find it difficult to give her the benefit of the doubt. Sometimes tough love is appropriate. Sometimes a nation has to go to war.

Yes those with communist views seem to agree with me one day but reject it the next. I don't expect Foxy's view to change easily as she seems to repeat communist propaganda. Maybe it's not intentional but in a sense that doesn't matter

I don't know how she has come to her views- most women's views are influenced by their husband, family, work, church, friends, etc especially in modern times. To go against her social group (especially woke-ist social groups) is very difficult especially for women because they tend to be higher in agreeableness, in the modern age rejecting or even questioning the views of the social group often results in physical exclusion from the group.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_group
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunbar's_number

Question- "But you know what they say about immigrants: they are OK, but it's the children born here (first generation Australians) that you have to watch."

Answer- This could be a bias due to Foxy identifying as an immigrant. It seems similar to the communist view of ownership. I see ownership as a hierarchy- ownership acts at all levels of society- based on traditional social structures and cultural hierarchy- Foxy's view seems very individualistic and atomised- this seems to be similar to the communist view.

It's important to label these concepts or groups of concepts because that way normal people are able to encapsulate the concept in their mind. This is what politicians do in sound bites. Sometimes sound bites can be inaccurate but hopefully the message is simplified enough for most people to understand for them to act in the best interest of themselves- and they can do further research if required.

There's much more here I suppose.

Thanks for the question ttbn. Kudos.

You "shall not have mocked"? Very pompous, particularly as I didn't mock anyone. I'll leave my 'mockery' for those deserving it; not your unknown family who might have been models of virtue for all I know, just like the Eastern Europeans who came to live in my town after WW11.

I can't 'respect' people I don't know. And, as for 'empathy, far from helping us to improve the lives of others, empathy is a "capricious and irrational emotion that appeals to our narrow prejudices. It muddles our judgement and, ironically, often leads to cruelty. We are at our best when we are smart enough not to rely on it but to draw instead upon a more distanced compassion".

Sticking your nose into conversations between other people is like listening at keyholes: you might hear something you don't like. I was addressing Canem Malum, not you.

You are always telling me, and others, that we don't have to read your posts; take your own advice.

Canem Malum and ttbn,

Reading your comments has made me realize the
reality of your thinking.

I appreciate your candor and wish you continued
success in sharing your views on this discussion
forum with each other.

Enjoy your week-end.

CM

We've had a crossover.

I gave Foxy's family the benefit of the doubt, not her. She has too much form, and she is here. The stuff she comes out with, her obvious ideology, is quite shocking if her family did suffer as she claims they did . I say "if" because we can never really know if truth is always delivered anonymously, online.

HI Foxy,

As I've said before to you, apply the "Armadillo Principle" when dealing with this pair of Galah's. The old parrot tries to insight you to retaliate by attacking where he thinks you are most sensitive, this time with some communist jibe, the blokes a decrepit old fool, as we know. As for the Kudos Kid, well communism is music to his ears, he probably thought old Ronnie Reagan was a Communist, he's so off the planet on the subject, its in just about every post he makes

Anyone can be anyone online. People can present
a certain version of themselves online that's
hard to discern from reality.

Anyone could be a teenager, male, female, trans,
elderly, members of the Ku Klux Klan,
white supremasists, Nazis, Chinese or
Russian agents, members of ASIO, the mafia,
crims, drug lords, or whatever.
Life is never risk free.
Dealing with people online exposes us to a certain degree
of vulnerability. The point is we can't eliminate risks
from our lives or at least in anything that's worthwhile
doing.

As far as this forum is concerned - we can however go by
a person's posting record. The consistency of their
arguments, the length of time that they've been posting,
and impressions formed. Also we have a Moderator who
keeps an eye on things and has kicked suspicious and
undesirable people off. Perhaps not all - but some.

It also depends on how trusting we are. I take people at
face value. As do many here. Perhaps we should question
things more often - especially someone's mode of operation.
And question what they hope to achieve by their comments.
Some comments are really questionable and deserve to be
looked into - and what they hope to achieve.

Of course there are people who are just bat-shyte nuts.
Those we can't do much about except ignore them.
And hope that eventually they'll leave, get banned, or
move onto someone else to throw bricks at. That's
what we get with public forums. Licorice all sorts.
Some tasty, some not so.

.

Hi Paul,

Our posts just passed each other. You got yours in first
while I tried to respond to ttbn's not trusting posters
online and questioning what they say about themselves.
Quite funny coming from him.

Thanks for your support. It is appreciated.
As for the comments that both CM and ttbn made about me?

Well, as I wrote to mhaze, I tend to barricade myself in
that preposperous condition known as self-respect.
I see myself as civilized and sensitive.
However, don't be concerned. I can build a firm foundation
with the bricks others have thrown at me.(smile).

Take care.

ttbn and CM, Foxy is naive as to what the agenda of how communists work. They try to create a wedge of injustice in society, and they promote it as racial injustice. Usually, it takes three to five percent of the population to initially believe they are unjustly treated, and it brings on board those that sympathize they are being unjustly treated. Foxy has fallen for this as she sympathizes with this supposed injustice based on race. She believes they are unjustly treated and SBS, NITV and the ABC are left wing socialists with immature reporter's brain washed in the injustices of race. They are told what to report, and any extension of the Voice proposal is out of bounds, as they want the Voice to get up. Marcia Langton, Thomas Mayo, and Thea Reid are the communists proposing the Voice, and the injustices of the past as a wedge in society. They learned from the Republican Referendum not to give a plan how it would work till after it gets up. They misunderstood public intelligence.

These media are all about the injustices committed upon aboriginal over the past, which feeds into the communist agenda of wedge.

I've had ABC 24 on most of the day in the background, at one stage they were talking of what a Treaty would mean. Their closing statements they said it would make no difference and the Voice is not about Treaty. They have been told by the overlords to not associate the two.

They ARE communists. They just don't know it. They think their dangerous dogma is normal. They will continue to do so, no matter what other people say. Everyone should have realised that long ago. It's a waste of time talking to them. Talk ABOUT them to keep their stupidity to the fore, but it's totally unrealistic to think that they will ever be different.

Dear Paul,

I could never be a communist.
I like to own things.

Besides people who use the term have no understanding
of the difference between communism, socialism, fascism.
They don't understand the terms and they tend to use
them interchangeably or mix and confuse them.

Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn said:

"For us in Russia communism is a dead dog.
While for many people in the West it's still a living
lion."

Unfortunately all too true.

Thanks Josephus and ttbn. Kudos.

Russia is a broken state due to communism run by warlords- even though the Russian people now understand the dangers of communism- it doesn't matter.

The west seems to have been infiltrated by communists and sympathizers the people in denial- it could never happen in the west- could it?- perhaps in a state of civil cold war or communist surveillance state. (Thanks Josephus for the point about the ABC, SBS and their apparently communist propaganda)

Yes ttbn no point in discussing with communists. Even shaming doesn't work. If 100 million dead doesn't convince them nothing will.

Discussing on OLO isn't about convincing the communists it's about talking to the silent majority readers in the middle and refining the skills of supporters to do the same.

CM

Yes. There will be lots of people out there watching and listening. The 'silent majority'.

I take an interest in several different blogs and learn from them. I don't comment. The same applies to OLO. People reading, being informed, not joining in the comments, but making up their minds.

I'm well over pointless arguments with two-bit bullies. I enjoy hearing from people on my 'side' and being encouraged by them.

When it comes to having a say in what matters, we have that wonderful thing, the secret ballot.

It was amazing to hear, a couple of days ago, a woman telling of another woman saying that she wanted to vote NO to the Voice, but she didn't want to be called a racist!

Doesn't this poor thing know that nobody on Earth will know how she votes unless she wants to tell them!

Some posters here have not been given the kudos
they deserve. Sadly, they're not recognized by
enough people on this Forum - as being worthy.

However, the next time I want information on
communists and other extremists - I know who
I'm calling.

Talking about the "silent majority?"
(Shades of Richard Nixon).

The object is not to be on the side of
this majority but to escape finding yourself
in the ranks of the insane.

Look at what's happening in America today.

In the past - when the silent majority opened
its mouth it was usually to yawn. Today - the
situation is different thanks to Trump.

Trump did not make America great. He poured gasoline
on it - and fanned the flames.

Nixon seems a "working man's" Liberal Republican from early policies. Almost as if he was a Democrat.

This is interesting.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silent_majority#Nixon's_constituency

Nixon's silent majority referred mainly to the older generation (those World War II veterans in all parts of the U.S.) but it also described many young people... many of whom eventually served in Vietnam. The Silent Majority was mostly populated by blue collar white people who did not take an active part in politics...

In his famous speech, Nixon contrasted his international strategy of political realism with the "idealism" of a "vocal minority." ... "to end the war in a way that we could win the peace." ... Nixon Doctrine, according to which, "the defense of freedom is everybody's business—not just America's business." After giving the speech, Nixon's approval ratings which had been hovering around 50% shot up to 81% in the nation...

Publisher Roy E. Larsen wrote that "the events of 1969 transcended specific individuals. In a time of dissent and 'confrontation', the most striking new factor was the emergence of the Silent Majority as a powerfully assertive force in U.S. society." Larsen described how the silent majority had elected Nixon, had put a man on the moon, and how this demographic felt threatened by "attacks on traditional values".

The silent majority theme has been a contentious issue amongst journalists since Nixon used the phrase... Nixon won a landslide victory in 1972, taking 49 of 50 states, vindicating his "silent majority"...
The "silent majority" shared Nixon's anxieties and fears that normalcy was being eroded by changes in society. The other group was composed of intellectuals, cosmopolitans, professionals and liberals, those willing to "live and let live." Both groups saw themselves as the higher patriots. According to Republican pollster Frank Luntz, "silent majority" is but one of many labels which have been applied to the same group of voters. According to him, past labels used by the media include "silent majority" in the 1960s, "forgotten middle class" in the 1970s, "angry white males" in the 1980s, "soccer moms" in the 1990s, and "NASCAR dads" in the 2000s.

Whether we consider the USSR, Nazi Germany, the Vietnam
and other wars, or the recent invasion by Putin of the
Ukraine, or the injustices against our First Nations
people, there are many people who observed what was
happening and said nothing.

If we observe such abuses and don't say - "That is wrong!
Stop it!"we give tacit approval for the abuses to continue.
We are part of the silent majority that makes these heinous
deeds more acceptable.

Foxy is trapped in a communist plot and cannot perceive the current advantages given to the tribal people that occupied Australia. For her it is all about abuse and injustices, which is the Marxist cry agenda.

She cannot perceive they gained equality as citizens in 1967 and continued to receive funding support for projects for which they put in a business proposal. We are all here as equals except aboriginals who have twice as much spent on them per person compared to all other races in Australia - no problem. She assumes aboriginals are abused, treated unjustly, and we neglect to give support, which is a guilt and shameful assignment to those that vote NO.

She needs to talk to aboriginals who are voting NO, why are they?
http://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/this-aboriginal-elder-is-voting-no-she-s-persuaded-her-voice-backing-mp-to-do-the-same-20230908-p5e33v.html

Dear Canem Malum,

You are so off with the bloody fairies mate you need to be committed.

Russia isn't a communist country and hasn't been since 1991 even though there are plenty of very thick Republicans continue running the line for the even more stupid supporters, which obviously includes you.

http://www.newsweek.com/most-republicans-wrongly-believe-russia-communist-country-poll-1684317

For you to claim other posters here are communist even though that is patently not the case shows a deep ignorance of what makes a communist.

Why don't you try rubbing each of your two braincells together and get a grip.

The Australian Constitution, our nation's most
important legal document, does not acknowledge
Aboriginal and Tores Strait Islander people as
the First Nations People of this country and
still includes provisions to make discriminatory
laws based on race.

Our Constitution should reflect our values of
respect and fairness and recognize Australia's
rich Indigenous history and culture.

Ever since colonization Aboriginal and
Torres Strait Islander people experienced extreme
hardships ranging from the loss of their
traditional culture, homelands, to the forced
removal of children, and the denial of citizenship
rights.

Some of the rights that Aboriginal and Torres Strait
Islander people did not have - included
the required rejection of their
language and culture, plus a range of other rights and
freedoms which continued to be denied - such as where
they lived, whom they married, and how they spent their
earnings. To mention just a few.

The referendum of 1967 did not end discrimination.
Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples did not
receive equal wages as a result of the referendum.
Not much changed for them. Control was not in their
hands. And remains not in their hands today.

As for why some Indigenous people are voting no against
the Voice to Parliament?

Arguments for the NO campaign include - that the Voice
would not deliver any meaningful change for the Aboriginal
and Torres Strait Islander peoples or that Sovereignty and
Treaty should be priorities ahead of a Voice to Parliament.

We should appreciate what is being asked of us is a very
modest request - to allow them to advise Government on
policies and laws that will impact on their lives.
How can we deny such a simple request after what these
people have for decades had to put up with?

My post up above was in response to Josephus
and his invalid claims. The facts presented
are on record. All anyone needs to do is
Google them.

Josephus needs to give it a rest. Only extremists
are buying what he's selling.

Kudos Josephus. If the Labor Party had any good arguments to make about The Voice they should have made them by now but they haven't at all in my view. In my view "The Voice is evil". Democracy only works with an informed electorate and they need time to make a decision. Sounds like the Labor party is trying to use "glittering generalities" and complexity to confuse and obfuscate the public to push the issue through.

Vote No-
I believe that Foxy is an extremist and only extremists really believe in Voting Yes for The Voice.

Communists also seem to use the same ploy as Foxy is using.

If you say that people that vote a certain way are extremists enough then people will start to believe it- it will start to eat into people brains and distort their reality- other people will start to believe it and attack people that believe those beliefs.

But if you think about it this tactic alone doesn't actually give any more information than an unsubstantiated assertion.

The sad thing is this tactic is effective in politics and therefore if you are morally above these tactics you are at a significant disadvantage. Perhaps a moral tactician would also provide legitimate information.

Voltaire got it right long ago:

"Those who can make you believe absurdities,
can make you commit atrocities."

So did Bertrand Russell:
"Many people would sooner die than think. In
fact they do."

A people inspired by democracy, human rights, and
economic opportunity will turn their back decisively
against extremism. But when peaceful democratic change
is made impossible it feed into extremist propaganda.

Yes, Foxy's mantra is Communist sympathizers' beliefs, it is wedge politics to change the Constitution. This then allows the rise of division by race and the rise of Marcia Langton and Thomas Mayo [a non aboriginal], and Thea Reid to introduce their communist agenda by their voice.

Josephus,

You're somewhat confused.

Do you know what communism even is?

My family does and they fled from it. Also what does that
have to do with the Voice referendum? All its asking is
for our First Nations people to be recognised in the
Constitution and to be consulted on policies and laws
that will impact on their lives. This is not a race issue.
Constitutional law experts have already made that quite
clear.

Why do you keep repeating the same nonsense over and over
again?

Surely you're smart enough to do your research and make up
your own mind for yourself. At present all you're doing is
throwing absurdities around and expect to be taken
seriously.

Foxy, I have books on the Communist Manifesto which I've read and know exactly how they work to change a society.

From the Spectator Australia:
Quote: "There is complete amnesia on behalf of the #Yes campaign over the enormous efforts made to embrace Aboriginal Australians.
There are no corners of society - government, the law, or institutions - where Aboriginals are discriminated against.
We now have a claim that we should listen to Aboriginal people through the #VoiceToParliament. We have been listening, hearing, and acting for decades."

Any aboriginal that is living in poverty is their choice, the same as anybody else. Those that have made a choice to be educated and move into society and work benefit the same as anybody, ask Warren Mundine or Bess Price.

Josephus,

You have a book about the communist manifesto.
MY family has actual lived experience as to
what communism is. They lost not only their
country but their family members as well.

As for what the Spectator writes? It is very
much a part of the No campaign strategy. And
is not truthful to say the least.

You obviously have not done your research on
the extreme hardships that Indigenous people
have experienced and are still experiencing.

As for Jacinta Price and Warren Mundine. They
have their own agendas. They both believe that
the Voice won't deliver meaningful
change. However they don't know until it's been
tried because what's been done in the past certainly
hasn't worked.

Australians cannot make treaty with other Australians. We are all Australians. "Any Australian that loves Australia and that loves their fellow Australians of any shade of melanin, should absolutely reject the notion of Treaty. Blacktivism, the entire industry, they are all invested in an ongoing division between Australians. Treaty is one of the culminations in that separatism."
WATCH Spectator TV
http://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=667614651552641

Josephus,

You don't seem to understand.

Our First Nations people are the original owners of this
land. The Australian Constitution, our nation's
most important legal document, does not acknowledge
Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people as the
First People of this country and still includes
provisions to make discriminatory laws based on race.
So stop saying that we're all equal. We're not - and we
haven't been.

Our Constitution should reflect our values of respect
and fairness and recognise this country's
rich Indigenous history and culture.

Foxy, you ignore the facts that currently apply to all Australians and mouth the communist wedge mantras.

Josephus,

Again with the communist mantra?

Dear oh dear. I'm starting to see what's influencing you
and it is sad.

Australia is one of the only commonwealth countries
without a treaty with its First Nations peoples.
New Zealand, Canada, the United States all have treaties.

However I can see that having a conversation with you is
impossible. Before I go I shall leave the following link
for you to read as an alternative to the Spectator:

http://abc.net.au/news/2023-09-23/white-supremacist-red-over-black-geoff-mcdonald-voice/102891560

Any aboriginal that is living in poverty is their choice, the same as anybody else. Those that have made a choice to be educated and move into society and work benefit the same as anybody, ask Warren Mundine or Bess Price.
Posted by Josephus, Monday, 2 October 2023 10:44:32 AM

You obviously have not done your research on
the extreme hardships that Indigenous people
have experienced and are still experiencing.
Posted by Foxy, Monday, 2 October 2023 11:04:03 AM

Answer- Josephus is not denying that as Foxy says "Indigenous people are in extreme hardship"- but Josephus says that "living in poverty is their choice, the same as anybody else".

This raises a classical philosophical question- should we force people not to be in poverty.
To say no- means some people could starve- To say yes- means taking away their free will.

The Aboriginal situation in Australia seems in a sense to be similar to what occurs in "hunger strikes"

Foxy, I read your 40-year-old document, totally irrelevant to the proposal of the Voice of Thomas Mayo and Marcia Langton and Thea Reid communists who are currently behind the push for the Voice. Australia recognizes aboriginal land rights to those living on their land and practicing their culture. This is not about those claims, as 51% of the land mass of Australia has been granted in Land rights.

This agenda is diving Australia by race and families, by a mixed race of aboriginals elite attempting to rewrite their sovereignty over all Australia. It is the mixed aboriginal elite who seek power and self-government - a Blak sovereign Nation. A repayment for their loss of stolen land, of which 51% is already in their control.

If you believe aboriginals are equally Australian, then they cannot have rights not given to all Australians. It is a division of Citizens of Australia by race, which was voted out in 1967.

I think that 51% of the land is too much. Thanks for the information Josephus. Kudos.

Canem, I hear Redfern aboriginals when we receive payments, under pay the rent scheme we won't have to work and will have our own homes instead of living in Government provided housing.

How much land do Aboriginals own? As of 2020, Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples’ rights and interests in land are formally recognized over around 40 per cent of Australia’s land mass. The recognition of Indigenous rights in land and waters is fundamental to the process of reconciliation.

In the NT 50% of the land and 85% of the coastline is under aboriginal control.
The Australia's Indigenous land and forest estate (2020) dataset shows that a total of:

134 million hectares of land in Australia (17%) is Indigenous owned
of this, 22 million hectares is forest
174 million hectares of land in Australia (22%) is under some form of Indigenous management, comprising 141 million hectares Indigenous managed and 33 million hectares Indigenous co-managed
of this, 29 million hectares is forest, comprising 18 million hectares Indigenous managed and 10 million hectares Indigenous co-managed
337 million hectares of land in Australia (44%) is subject to other special rights for Indigenous people
of this, 51 million hectares if forest.
RECENT ADDITION
http://www.oric.gov.au/publications/spotlight/australias-biggest-native-title-settlement-clears-final-hurdle
formal recognition in an act of parliament acknowledging the Noongar as traditional owners of Noongar lands in the south-west of Western Australia;
Handback of 320,000 hectares of cultural and development land to Noongar ownership and control and $46.8 million over ten years for environmental projects on that land;
joint management of the national parks and conservation estate on Noongar lands;
access rights for Noongar people to undertake customary activities on ‘Crown land’;
$600 million over 12 years through a ‘future fund’ trust for the use and benefit of Noongar;
$120 million over twelve years in operational funding and $6.5 million in capital funding for the establishment of the Noongar corporations;
121 houses and $10 million to develop and refurbish them; and
$5.3 million and up to 2 hectares of land for a Noongar cultural centre.

POOR ABORIGINALS WE COLONIZERS TREAT THEM BADLY ACCORDING TO THE YES CAMPAIGN.

Josephus,

This is for you:

http://news.un.org/en/story/2023/04/1135827#

Hi Foxy,

Proud Boy Jose' was content to see Aboriginal people marginalised in camps on river banks, black settlements etc, dying of preventable diaereses such as Tuberculosis and Leprosy, which had been eradicated in the White population years before. Now he comes on here and has the audacity to claim he is some kind of; "friend of the black fella", what a sick joke that is.

BTW, can you give me the names of those on this Forum who are advocating a 'NO' vote, you consider have ever posted anything remotely indicating their concern for the welfare of our black brothers and Sisters? Please don't laugh at the question, I'm being serious.

Dear Paul,

Its hard to tell how people are going to vote.
People often change their minds inside a polling
booth. As for anyone's concerns about Indigenous
people - I'll let their posting records speak for
themselves. (smile).

I see Foxy's as uncaring and self serving- finding fault but not finding real solutions. But there you go.

Hannah McGlade is a deprived poor aboriginal individual who is oppressed by the Colonizers?

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Born 6 June 1969
Perth, Western Australia
Academic background
Alma mater Murdoch University (LL.B., LL.M.)
Curtin University (PhD)
Thesis Aboriginal child sexual assault (CSA) and the criminal justice system: the last frontier (2010/2011)
Doctoral advisor Linda Briskman
Academic work
Discipline Indigenous Australian studies
Sub-discipline Indigenous human rights
Indigenous law
Racial discrimination law
Institutions Curtin University
Member of the United Nations Permanent Forum on Indigenous Issues
for the Pacific
Incumbent
Assumed office
1 January 2020
As of May 2022 is an associate professor at Curtin University's law school. She was appointed Senior Indigenous Fellow at the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights in 2016 and has been a member of the United Nations Permanent Forum on Indigenous Issues since 2020.

Early life and education
McGlade was born on 6 June 1969 in Perth, Western Australia. She is a Kurin Minang Noongar woman of the Bibulman nation, an Aboriginal Australian people whose traditional lands are located on the southwestern coast of Western Australia.

At Murdoch University, McGlade completed a Bachelor of Laws in 1995 (making her the first Aboriginal woman to graduate from this university[4] and the first to graduate from any WA law school. She was admitted as a solicitor and barrister of the Supreme Court of Western Australia in 1996.[4]

In 2011 she received her Doctor of Philosophy for her thesis, "Aboriginal child sexual assault (CSA) and the criminal justice system: the last frontier", under doctoral adviser Linda Briskman. The thesis won the Australian Institute of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Studies (AIATSIS) Stanner Award, which is "presented biennially to the best academic manuscript submitted by an Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander author". Due to this win, the thesis was published as a book in 2012 with the title Our Greatest Challenge: Aboriginal children and human rights.

Academic career
In 2016, she was appointed Senior Indigenous Research Fellow at Curtin, and is as of May 2022 an associate professor at Curtin Law School.

Firstly - I stand by my posting record.
As for offering solutions? We're being given
that opportunity with the Voice referendum. To
allow our First Nations people to suggest
what will work in their communities when government
is making laws and policies that will impact on them.

Of course the Voice alone will not solve the issues facing
Indigenous people. And, non-Indigenous people often don't
know how they should address social inequality brought about
by colonisation and white privilege. The Voice won't fix
what's broken. But it's a step in the right direction.

Indigenous leaders, scholars, activists and community members
have spent decades suggesting solutions to inequalities in
this country, which still haven't been implemented. For
hundreds of years Aboriginal communities have called for
appropriate representation in government.

Yes, there are a few aboriginal MPs - but they also represent
their wide electorates and don't speak on behalf of their
people. The Voice could potentially represent the views of
Indigenous communities and hopefully assist in informing
policy and legal decisions that impact their lives.

But the Voice can't solve the deeply entrenched bigotry in
Australian society, media and institutions.

And expecting it to do so is assigning the role and
responsibility of addressing bigotry to the very people
experiencing it.

This should be the ongoing work of everyone, all of the time,
regardless of the upcoming referendum.

The effects of the social imbalance caused by colonisation
impacts on everyone.

And the reason it continues is because people in power and
the wider community continues to benefit from it.

Josephus you really can't help yourself can you. Sticking to the Rightwing Nut Job script entirely of selectively posting material.

At least you provided a link this time so that is a step forward.

So what did you leave out? Just the critical statement that they had surrendered their native title.

"Noongar had agreed to surrender native title in the claim areas in exchange for a comprehensive set of benefits including the following and more:"

This was the sentence immediately prior to the rest of what you quoted wasn't it.

The fact you deliberately left it out speaks directly to your character and labels you as a little racist turkey selectively regurgitating any divisive take on the Voice that you can.

Utterly pathetic as usual and very much par for the course from you.

Only a racists and a bigot, such an old fool, would keep putting up posts about individual Aboriginal people who have made good in life! You are a jealous hater to think that people who YOU believe should be oppressed by your superior white society should live successful lives. I hope before YOU die, YOU get over it!

Josephus,

Here's something else you left out about Dr Hannah McGlade:

http://nit.com.au/26-09-2023/7822/the-voice-gives-chance-to-organise-collectively

Shame on you.

Hi Foxy,

Thanks for the read, about Dr Hannah McGlade and the story of her people, HEAR! HEAR!

You wont be receiving kudos from that fool spreading pixie dust at the circus, the Kudos Kid, nor from the bigoted racists Proud Boy Jose' or from any of the Decepticon's here, why should we care. Steele has shown these guys to be deceitful liars so many times, and so have I, and others, its getting boring.

Dear Paul,

In my life I had never met people as nasty as some of the
ones I've encountered here. I thought that we could have
discussions without personal insults and labels. Then,
unfortunately I go sucked in as well. I'm not proud o f
the way I have reacted at times. I always believed that
people are basically good and decent. I've been proven wrong
on this forum.

Anyway, we have enough of a choice in posters who are capable
of reasoned debates. We don't have to agree with each other,
but we do need to be civil. Unfortunately some aren't
capable of doing that. My father used to say - that those
sort of low-based attacks - usually come from narrow-minded,
ignorant people. Luckily, I have not encountered many of
those.

I have met some incredible characters on this forum, and for
that I am grateful. To me this is an ongoing learning process.
And I intend to make the most of it - while I still am able
to tolerate the noise.

Hannah McGlade
Continued,
"Academic career
"In 2016, she was appointed Senior Indigenous Research Fellow at Curtin, and is as of May 2022 an associate professor at Curtin Law School.

Advocacy
McGlade has often acted as an advocate for Indigenous Australians, especially focussing on issues relating to law, sexual assault, women's justice and systemic discrimination.

In 2016, McGlade began campaigning for a stand-alone national action plan to address violence against women, and her advocacy was successful before a number of UN treaty bodies and expert mechanisms. In 2020 she called for a Council on Violence Against Aboriginal Women and Children in collaboration with the national body Our Watch (founded by Natasha Stott Despoja in 2013. In June 2021 the Morrison government established a National Plan Advisory Group headed by Marise Payne, Minister for Women, to "inform the development of the National Plan to end family, domestic and sexual violence in Australia".

Her advocacy for Aboriginal women and children over decades led to the establishment of the first service in Perth for victims, named Djinda. She was later the first CEO of the newly established Aboriginal Family Law Services."

Violence against aboriginal women is caused by aboriginal men - get the facts right. The Voice will not change this culture, it is traditional. It is linked to family, see above, not colonization.

Comment Foxy 1-
Firstly - I stand by my posting record.
As for offering solutions? We're being given
that opportunity with the Voice referendum. To
allow our First Nations people to suggest
what will work in their communities when government
is making laws and policies that will impact on them.

Answer 1-
Not a realistic solution and a lot of confusion- how could people logically vote in favour of something they don’t understand and still believe that they are doing the right thing for their families- purely out of stupid guilt. Giving Aboriginals control over all of Australia doesn't help Aboriginals out of poverty and puts everyone else into poverty.

Comment Foxy 2-
Of course the Voice alone will not solve the issues facing
Indigenous people. And, non-Indigenous people often don't
know how they should address social inequality brought about
by colonisation and white privilege. The Voice won't fix
what's broken. But it's a step in the right direction.

Answer 2-
I agree The Voice will not fix Aboriginal problems. Non-Indigenous have made many grand attempts in good faith and there is still a huge problem. If it's a step in the right direction what about the other steps that have been made- what about the steps by Aboriginal people.

Comment Foxy 3-
Indigenous leaders, scholars, activists and community members
have spent decades suggesting solutions to inequalities in
this country, which still haven't been implemented. For
hundreds of years Aboriginal communities have called for
appropriate representation in government.

Answer 3-
And many solutions have been tried and implemented. Aboriginals have their own communities.

Comment Foxy 4-
But the Voice can't solve the deeply entrenched bigotry in
Australian society, media and institutions.

And expecting it to do so is assigning the role and
responsibility of addressing bigotry to the very people
experiencing it.

Answer 4-
I believe that there are many indigenous, scholars, activists and community members that are Anglophobic and bigoted and just want to see Anglo's burn even if they hurt themselves. And it is predominantly the Anglo Australian people that have been giving to Aboriginal programs.

Josephus,

The whole idea of the Voice is so that Indigenous
people can suggest solutions to the problems in
their communities. Indigenous leaders, activists and
community members have spent decades suggesting solutions
which have not been heard, listened to, or implemented.
The Voice is an attempt to try again.

The Voice alone won't solve the issues facing Indigenous
people. It certainly can't solve the deeply entrenched
bigotry in Australian society, media, and institutions.

This should be the on going work of everyone, all of the time,
regardless of the upcoming referendum.

How about you doing something positive for a change instead of
just pointing out the negatives?

Are you capable of doing that?

Bigotry and Racism passes both ways but Anglo Australian's have made many good faith first moves- I believe that their needs to be more of a show of good faith from the Aboriginal side.

Posted by Foxy, Tuesday, 3 October 2023 8:25:05 AM

Comment Paul1405-
Only a racists and a bigot, such an old fool, would keep putting up posts about individual Aboriginal people who have made good in life! You are a jealous hater to think that people who YOU believe should be oppressed by your superior white society should live successful lives. I hope before YOU die, YOU get over it!
Posted by Paul1405, Tuesday, 3 October 2023 8:27:07 AM

Answer-
I think that Paul1405 is the racist bigot as he seems to want to destroy Anglo Australian's. If Anglo society finds it's way through this crisis of faith and self determination perhaps we should find a way to manage Paul1405's disruptive and destructive influence over society. Every society thinks it is superior I suppose- even Communist civilization- though I hesitate to call Communists civilized- given the 100 million dead.

Comment Foxy-
Josephus, Here's something else you left out about Dr Hannah McGlade:
http://nit.com.au/26-09-2023/7822/the-voice-gives-chance-to-organise-collectively
Shame on you.
Posted by Foxy, Tuesday, 3 October 2023 8:36:37 AM

Answer-
I think that Foxy is the one who should be ashamed.

We have only 11 more days till The Voice situation is over. I pray that Australian's think hard and do what is best to stand up for their families

If you believe aboriginals do not have equal Citizenship, Vote TES. If you believe they are equal and have equal opportunity under our civilization Vote NO! The Voice will keep them in victim status forever as being less capable of entering a modern society. This is what the YES camp believe that they cannot cope in our society.

Aboriginal people don't want control over all of Australia.
The Voice will be only a non-binding advisory body under government
control.
What they want is to be consulted
on the laws and policies that will impact on their lives.

And if anyone who does not know what the Voice is all about
can easily find out. The information is everywhere.
But of course - dis-interest and a closed mind can't be helped.
But it's not a valid excuse. When information is available.

Answer to (Foxy, Tuesday, 3 October 2023 1:50:59 PM)- The view of many is that The Voice will be able to pressure the High Court of Australia to force it's decisions and will therefore be "binding" (despite Foxy's apparent claim to "non-binding"). The Voice will also have an influence over other institutions not just in Aboriginal communities but over all of Australia. The Labor Party seems to deny this assertion as expected. I'm concerned that in a world where many institutions seem to have become corrupted and propagandized by woke-ism and Communism- where can decent hardworking people go where the information isn't tainted. As they say in the end we get what we deserve- sometimes that means death- hopefully that isn't what my people choose.

I believe that Foxy is evil and hates Anglo people- despite any fence sitting claims- such as her claim to admire President Reagan- I can't believe her.

“Giving Aboriginals control over all of Australia doesn't help Aboriginals out of poverty and puts everyone else into poverty.”

and

“I pray that Australian's think hard and do what is best to stand up for their families.”

Truly fearmongering, fruit loop stuff. There is no reasoning with that kind of warped and toxic logic. Just have to call it out when it appears.

I wonder who this demented character is praying to? It isn't Jesus because that man would look at the Uluru statement from the Heart and see the words:

“Proportionally, we are the most incarcerated people on the planet. We are not an innately criminal people. Our children are aliened from their families at unprecedented rates. This cannot be because we have no love for them. And our youth languish in detention in obscene numbers. They should be our hope for the future. These dimensions of our crisis tell plainly the structural nature of our problem. This is the torment of our powerlessness. We seek constitutional reforms to empower our people and take a rightful place in our own country. When we have power over our destiny our children will flourish. They will walk in two worlds and their culture will be a gift to their country.”

And know that 57% of incarcerated kids in custody in NSW are Indigenous and see it all for what it is, deeply unjust.

As the Christian Judean bible relates:

"The Spirit of the Sovereign Lord is on me, because the Lord has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor.
He has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim freedom for the captives and release from darkness for the prisoners, to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor and the day of vengeance of our God”

This is so far from anything that CM is putting out now.

May God have mercy on his tainted soul.

Steele want to use the scripture, but he does not understand and believes this does not work for aboriginals as they will always be denied good news to rise above their poverty, and are bound captives of our society, that they are denied healing, and all continue in intellectual and spiritual darkness. The Yes vote assumes they will always be in poverty, and slavery to colonizers, and captive to primitive cultures, and spiritual depression.

Always being given special attention to believe they are victims of colonizers crimes against them. AS Mundine said they must forgive and move forward and achieve like most aboriginals. Steele does not want their situation to change, as they are given special leniency in laws and treated as inferior alongside our society. He cannot accept aboriginals can compete equally and successfully in our society. He wants them permanently divided from our society by the constitution.

IF YOU BELIEVE THEY ARE LESSER PEOPLE VOTE YES!

Peter Baldwin states it is unconstitutional under the United Nations conventions to isolate a race in a national constitution.
http://www.msn.com/en-au/news/other/obnoxious-and-bizarre-former-labor-mp-slams-the-voice-as-racial-discrimination/ar

Dear Steele,

Poor old CM. I hope that he lives long enough to see
Australia become a Republic. And, an Indigenous person
become Prime Minister.

But such is the quirk of fate that the poison in his
heart may just hasten his miserable life and force him to
depart.

He probably won't live long enough to see a monarch of
the UK's future choice of partner. A start has already
been made with the current choice of PM. It may also
influence a future monarch's choices.

Interesting times lie ahead.

Anyhow getting back to the Voice.

All this negativity. Talks should be far more positive.
The Voice is after all about giving our Indigenous
people a say in the laws and policies that will impact
on their lives.

They are simply asking to be able to be consulted.
Surely we can grant them this simple request.
It will give them some dignity and inclusion instead of
continuing to live with a history of being controlled and
excluded.

I'm kind of over democracy altogether at the moment.
I think there needs to be some serious reforms.

My problem is that when America virtue signals about it's support for democracy;
- That the word democracy is actually a codeword for imperialism.

That they bully, coerce, blackmail, threaten, cause civil unrest and conduct regime changes and military interventions without any basis except their own imperial interests, and somehow all this is perfectly fine and celebrated.

If I hear Americans virtue signal about their 'democracy' one more time, I'm going to be hard pressed not to scream.
[Not really, but you get the idea]

Until the world can come to some agreement about this issues I've listed above, I don't want to hear anyone tell me how great 'democracy' is.

Endless bickering, and poor outcomes.
From people who have zero qualifications to manage the ministries they're put in charge of.
That's what democracy is.

Just a point.
What proof do aboriginals have that they 'own' the land?
Can they prove they didn't steal it from another group long ago?
Are they in fact the 'dis-possessers'?
This gets sillier and sillier.

It comes back to 'we cannot change history'.
What's done is done.
And we, living in the present day, are in no way responsible for what happened before we were born.
We are only responsible for what happens now.
And we cannot pay reparations to persons long dead .
Those persons simply don't exist.
To pretend they do is a fantasy?
And we certainly cannot give benefit to them through lavish gifts to their descendants.
So is this a con?
Is this a ploy to extract wealth from others?
Is it done because it CAN be done?
Did someone misinterpret the Mabo decision?

Dear Ipso Fatso,

So you believe Jewish heirs who are recipients of German reparation money should return it?

"From 1945 to 2018, the German government paid approximately $86.8 billion in restitution and compensation to Holocaust victims and their heirs. Germany has also identified Nazi-looted objects – including art works, books, and objects within larger collections – and has returned 16,000 objects to survivors and their heirs over the last 20 years. Thousands more pieces of looted art are still missing worldwide."
http://www.state.gov/reports/just-act-report-to-congress/germany/

Ipso Fatso

The "ownership" myth is an invention of modern activists. Aborigines were originally said to be part of the land; they had no conception of ownership; they were never in the one place long enough to "own" anything.

In 1945, when reparations were 'set-up', the matter was current.
The people directly affected were alive.
The link between them and the dead was direct and provable.
Our situation is not the same.
The dead are ancient history.
Links are hazy at best.

The same thing applies to belief systems.
Whether it be Aztec or Roman or any other long past time, they have no direct relevance now.
Similarly with past languages.
Even though we study them to find out what the people were doing.
Curious little fellows aren't we!
But we plan survival based on what is happening around us right now.

We could not write down any significant amount of the total of past history.
Logically, so much has happened that could be 'corrected'.
But it never shall.
Nor should it be.
The past is past, and it should stay there.
We can learn from the past, but now we must live in the present, and plan carefully for the future.
Survival and procreation depends upon it.

And I disagree about ownership.
Ownership has always involved control.
And this requires combined effort.
In the past, ownership would have been patchy across the world?
Most peoples simply occupied an area, and moved on when needed?
So their approach was occupation, rather than ownership.
And you seem to agree with this.

And these conversations often remind me of the founding of the US of A.
I think their original declaration is wrongly worded.
But as they are bigger than I am, I won't bother to tell them so.
But the fact is that no one has natural 'rights'.
Rights are given by law.
Laws must come first.
A group must first establish itself, and THEN contrive and enforce laws.

But what they did have are NEEDS.
Life is about survival.
To do this, we need at least food and water and shelter.
We also need the freedom to move and to think.
Significant freedom to move and think was being denied them.
So of course, and quite rightly, they made a stand.
It is pleasing that they were successful.
They must have come from good stock.

Steele cannot get over the fact that the German government paid the repatriations to family members who lost members of their immediate family and were displaced in the current time. The family members were still alive, and suffering from the loss of their parents and homes.

This is not the same as what happened 200 years ago, to aboriginals who owned nothing and lost nothing. Before 1788 only the fittest survived, death was frequent and violence commonplace. After 1788 attempts They have been made to repatriated into our society and those that have survive very well.

A yes Vote is racial aparthied and discrimination on the basis of race.

Josephus,

How on earth can you claim that the Voice is going to
create apartheid in Australia. Do you even know what
apartheid is?

According to international law apartheid involves the
commission of inhuman acts such as - murder, torture,
personal injury, arbitrary imprisonment, extermination,
persecution, denial of human rights, discrimination, and
so on.

The Voice does not in any way involve Indigenous Australians
perpetrating any inhuman acts against other Australians or
establishing systematic oppression and discrimination over
other Australians.

Constitutional Law experts have made it quite clear that:

"The Voice is not about racial division, but about
recognition of the unique status of Aboriginal and Torres
Strait Islander Peoples as the Indigenous Peoples of this
land that's now called Australia."

Please stop making these false claims.

Josephus,

You limp in with: "Steele cannot get over the fact that the German government paid the repatriations to family members who lost members of their immediate family and were displaced in the current time."

What an unhinged comment. I applaud the reparations made to Jewish families impacted by the Holocaust and want to see a similar assessment done here.

Bloody hell mate, do try and get that addled brain in order and impart some logic into the points you are trying to make.

Steele, what current person among aboriginals who have had the State, murder their parents or support relatives, and steal their property? NONE! Besides Aboriginals have been granted land rights and Government assistance in Health, Housing, Education, and Employment. What is the Voice supposed to do, above what is currently happening? Nothing except control Government decisions.

Josephus,

Try reading the following link:

http://theguardian.com/australia-news/ng-interactive/2023/jul/20/the-no-pamphlet-referendum-voice-to-parliament-voting-essay-aec-published-read-in-full-annotated-fact-checked

The proposed Voice violates the United Nations Human Rights first two clauses.
http://www.un.org/en/about-us/universal-declaration-of-human-rights#Article%201
Article 1
All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Article 2
Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status. Furthermore, no distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs, whether it be independent, trust, non-self-governing or under any other limitation of sovereignty.

Here's the link again:

http://theguardian.com/australia-news/ng-interactive/2023/jul/20/the-vote-no-pamphlet-referendum-voice-to-parliament-voting-essay-aec-published-read-in-full-annotated-fact-checked

Josephus,

The Voice is not in breach of international human rights
standards. In fact the Voice is supported
under international human rights law as it
recognises Indigenous Peoples rights to
political representation and is consistent with the UN Declaration
on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples.

Foxy, according to human rights lawyers, it violates these principles. The Yes camp constantly claims it does not identify a race of people, which is to avoid violating the UN human Charter. DOES THE VOICE IDENTIFY RACE? Noel Pearson says it is not about race, merely to confuse and sidestep the issue.

http://www.spectator.com.au/2023/09/the-un-declaration-of-human-rights-asks-us-to-reject-the-voice/

The ‘Voice’ sits in direct contradiction to both these Articles.

The Voice imposes a hierarchy of origin or descent on Australians, giving some more rights than others on that basis.

History shows us that this is a dangerous path down which to tread.

Josephus,

Can you please tell us why you earlier chose to omit the line “It didn’t get across the fact that only a really small chunk of the overall Indigenous spending is on Indigenous-specific programs. Most is on mainstream programs.” from the middle of earlier your quote?

Could you also tell us why you chose to delete the words: “Noongar had agreed to surrender native title in the claim areas in exchange for a comprehensive set of benefits including the following and more:" from the start of your other quote?

Both entirely change the context of the quotes and for you to have excluded them was entirely duplicious.

Why are you doing it with such monotonous regularity?

Where I live, we'll probably need indigenous permission to visit the local parks and cemetery before long.
I have no idea what is going to happen.
Let that sink in.

Native title claim over Redlands coast near Brisbane casts doubt on ownership of urban public spaces and amenities across Australia
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12490441/Native-Title-Redland-Brisbane.html

"Australia's first major native title claim of a large urban area is clouding the future of popular scenic areas, parks, playgrounds, cemeteries and even council buildings.

The claim could infer native title rights on approximately 3,500 council-owned or managed properties in the Redlands coastal area south east of Brisbane, which is home to 165,000 people."

The wording of the proposed constitutional change does
not mention land, property or native title but rather
would establish an advisory body called the Aboriginal
and Torres Strait Islander's Voice.

Perhaps it would be wise to actually look up what the Voice
is and how it will work.

It's disgraceful that there is so much misinformation
and falsehoods being published and then being spread.

Hi Foxy,
"It's disgraceful that there is so much misinformation
and falsehoods being published and then being spread."

- Don't blame humans for doing what humans do.
It's like blaming an young untrained puppy for peeing on the floor.
- A puppy's going to do what a puppy does.

The responsibility stops with the government, they chose to embark on this divisive venture.

The '7 P's' come to mind.
- 'Proper Planning and Preparation Prevents Piss Poor Performance.'

Don't blame people for something the government is responsible for.
What sort of fool expects someone to sign a contract;
- without finding out what's in the contract until after it's been signed?

This is essentially what the government is asking us to do.
Albo insults our intelligence and divided the nation just by asking us to choose.

Here we are - it won't be long before it will all
be over on the Voice to Parliament proposal - which
will show everyone the Australian character.

Yet the zone is being flooded with misinformation,
disinformation, and out right lies.

As millions of Australians are trying to decide and
are giving their attention to the referendum much of what
they are seeing and hearing has nothing to do with the
question they are going to be asked when they vote.

What they are being asked is to amend the Constitution
to allow the creation of an Indigenous advisory body to
Parliament.

That body, the Voice may give advice. The government is
under no obligation to act on that advice.

The advice will not interfere with parliamentary processes
or clog up the courts.

The advice will be about matters directly affecting First
Nations communities.

The parliament including Peter Dutton, Jacinta Price,
and all the opposition members now andinto the future
will design the Voice, including its composition, functions,
powers, and procedures.

That's it. That is what we are being asked to say yes or
no to.

The Voice will not over-ride Parliament. It cannot.

It will not give advice on link roads, defence spending,
tax policy,. It will not abolish Anzac Day. It will not
cause people to lose their properties or backyards. It will
not take away anyone's home. It will not force Australians
to pay reparations.

It is not a communist plot. It will not take away our
national parks or beaches or cemeteries. It will not
result in Aboriginal people getting free home loans or
cars or university degrees.

There's much more at the following:

http://theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/sep/13/indigenous-voice-to-parliament-referendum-fact-check-yes-campaign-no-campaign

And it will not divide us. It will unite us by us
finally recognising the unique status of our First
Nations People. By finally including them in our
Constitution and allowing them to be heard on
matters that affect their communities.

A small request is being asked. And so much dust and
noise is being created by people with their own
personal agendas - giving the rest of us a bad name
and eroding the foundations of our democracy.

But I still have hope in my heart that the majority of
Australian voters will do the right thing - then the
minority won't really matter at all.

What you just said there Foxy is a contradiction.
You're showing that you are holding 2 opposing arguments at the same time.

Firstly you state : "And it will not divide us."

Then you state : "But I still have hope in my heart that the majority of Australian voters will do the right thing - then the minority won't really matter at all."

"But I still have hope in my heart that the majority of Australian voters will do the right thing"
If you think that people who don't vote yes are doing the [emphasis] 'wrong' thing
- then you are not recognising the country is ALREADY divided on this issue.

If you think the minorities opinion wont matter
- then you are not recognising the country is ALREADY divided on this issue.

Maybe very soon you might find out that YOU are the minority
- And that your opinion doesn't really matter at all either.

That's easy Steele, the Grand Wizard at Jose's local KKK chapter told Proud Boy what to write, sorry Proud Boy is the Grand Wizard of his local Klan chapter. So silly of me! Jose' always posts only what fits his narrative. Leave a word out here, a sentence there, a whole paragraph if need be. Its all good, as long as it buckets on Aboriginal.

Copying an eight hundred word into a 350-word document means editing them to state the points of the document. Of course, it does not suit Steele, or Paul, but they can read the link themselves to form their own opinion.

Within democracy the majority opinion rules, which 3% of the population cannot get noticed. The next group, which is 3%, will argue that their culture is not being fully recognized so they also need an advisory Voice in the Government. This is not feasible in administering a cohesive society. Especially when lands are disputed over who has rights to use or occupy and carry out their culture.

Foxy cannot understand tribal rights to land, waterways, beaches, and natural resources are being contested as aboriginal or Commonwealth. The removal of the Crown from Australia applies to lands allocated by the Crown to settlers. Always was, always will be, aboriginal land. The NITV constantly promote the native American scene on Australian settlement. The Australian settlement was to accommodate the native population, but some settlers abused the principle by murdering and were brought to justice.

Dear oh dear. How sad it is.

Mark Kenny has an excellent article that was originally
published in The Canberra Times. He sums things up much
better than I could. So here's just a bit of it of what he
says:

"The deterioration of Australia's Voice debate is revealing
a country profoundly divided, cleaned between myth and fact.
Essentially the country looks brattish, indignant. The
scaremongering and mischief-making of recent months has
escalated to name-calling, scurrilous misrepresentation
and worse."

"One myth has been scorched - that Australia is a post-racist
society. It's not. Both sides have now complained that
Indigenous leaders are being targeted by opponents with vile
racist abuse and threats of violence. So nobody is pretending
on that score anymore."

"Racism it turns out was there all along, coursing like a
psycho-magnotheric slime beneath Gotham's streets in
Ghostbusters II, just waiting for enough boorish negativity to
summon it forth."

There's more at the following:

http://ausi.anu.edu.au/news/opinion-voice-parliament-isnt-dividing-australia-it-revealing-country

The Voice to Parliament is not dividing Australia - it's
revealing the country.

I think that Foxy is the one that is racist and negative.

Also it seems to me that many people at the ABC are undemocratic and racist.

Josephus,

You claim: “Copying an eight hundred word into a 350-word document means editing them to state the points of the document.”

Rubbish. Your omissions completely changed the points being made in the document.

As to your claim you had to condense to fit within the word limit your factcheck post was 253 words long. You omitted this which is 56 words long.

“While it’s true Warren Mundine used the most up-to-date figures, his quote didn’t quite convey the full story. It didn’t get across the fact that only a really small chunk of the overall Indigenous spending is on Indigenous-specific programs. Most is on mainstream programs.”

All well within the 350 word limit.

You post on Indigenous Lands was 304 words long. The opening sentence you omitted was this: "Noongar had agreed to surrender native title in the claim areas in exchange for a comprehensive set of benefits including the following and more:"

It is only 24 words long and could again have been included under the limit.

Given we have dealt with that piss poor excuse I ask again, why did you omit these significant contextual sentences in order to convey something the documents weren't? Why not argue in good faith rather than continuing to distort?

Hi Foxy and Steele,

Had Albo show up at our hall this morning, its being used for pre-poll and voting day until 14th, hopefully we'll have it back for Monday 16th. We were working at sorting for tomorrow's handouts. We've been consigned to the rear end behind screens using the rear door, thanks to the good grace of the returning officer, that we have access at all.

Couldn't but think when Albo was having a photo opp with the 'YES' supporters, holding up their vote 'Yes' placards. What irony do I see here, a bunch of the white dudes from the cheer squad, trying to influence the decision of other white dudes as to what's best for a bunch of black dudes. All the time we've got white and black dudes sleeping on the veranda outside here at night.

p/s; Asked Albo to give our charity a plug, ha ha. BTW I don't know if his almost black, sombre suit, was an indication of the outcome.There has been a good roll-up each day for the pre-polls.

Dear Paul,

CM inference that "Foxy is negative and racist."
The facts speak for themselves.

But then CM also thinks Foxy is a communist and worse.

The problem is CM appears (judging from his posts),
not to be capable of rational thought. However, I'm
willing to compare my posting record with his and allow
posters to judge for themselves.

As for CM's statement about many people on the ABC being
undemocratic and racist? ? Well, Stan Grant is one who
would agree with CM.

http://smh.com.au/culture/tv-and-radio/how-the-abc-s-betrayal-of-stan-grant-exposed-its-racism-problem-20230523-p5dalw.html

BTW - I sent your story about the white dudes vs black dudes -
to my federal MP. He loved it and would like to use it.

Obviously Foxy and Paul love to pit the melanin of skin colour to divide the nation, which the No case refuses, to divide Australians.

Josephus,

" We have enough on our plate with the Voice Referendum
on Aboriginal recognition in the Constitution. Lies flow
about that, but I'll be voting YES to it since, in
legitimising Aboriginal validity we legitimise ourselves,
including children now to young to vote. Our crabbed NO vote
will send us back to a pale and demoralised and unresolved
Australia, a race of trespassers."

"A YES vote will animate us and flow like a living river
among us."

(Thomas Keneally).

Josephus,

I remember years ago when my son was in primary school
and there were issues like the White Australia policy
being raised in the media. We were talking at the dinner
table about the policy. My son's best friend at the time
was a little boy by the name of Benjamin, a Chinese boy.
I turned to my son in the middle of the dinner conversation
and asked him, "Do you know that Ben is Chinese?"

My son was silent for a moment, and then he replied,
"No he's not. He's my best friend!"

Out of the mouths of babes.

I doubt if my son knew what being "Chinese" meant at that time.

In our family we were raised to take people at we found them.
Neither skin colour nor ethnicity mattered. I remember as a
young girl being told by a neighbour that my friend, a young
Maltese lass was to be avoided because Maltese people ate
snails from their gardens and lived in filth.

Well, when I was invited one Sunday to Betty's home - I was
served a lovely beef casserole for lunch and her home was
neat and tidy. Actually much cleaner than that of my
neighbours.

Proud Boy Jose'

"Obviously Foxy and Paul love to pit the melanin of skin colour to divide the nation, which the No case refuses, to divide Australians."

All I've got to say to you Jose' is; are you a member of the branch of the 'NO' campaign called, 'The Warriors for Convict Resistance', fess up don't be shy!

Dear Paul,

I'm not sure I understand why Josephus as a man of
serious religious beliefs seems so obsessed with
skin colour, racism, and division. What is wrong with
acknowledging our First Nations people and allowing
them to advise on policies that directly affect their
communities?

Surely our Indigenous people are God's creatures as well?
Why can't we acknowledge them as our First Nations people
and allow them to advise on matters that affect them?

Something is wrong with Josephus continuing with his tirades
and then not responding when confronted with facts.
Why is he doing that?

Foxy stop lying, The Voice is not about recognition, it is about empowering one race who already has equal rights to a special position in Government, that no other minority will have. You are deceiving yourself.

Dividing Australia by race forever in our constitution.
http://www.msn.com/en-au/news/other/are-we-going-to-be-one-people-former-deputy-pm-says-australia-is-moving-into-separatism/ar-AA1hJw5H?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=96f9816ccc844649b95f57f9f5be63c2&ei=29

Josephus,

I do not lie.

You need to sort out fact from fiction instead of
repeating the same misinformation and lies.

A group of leading lawyers, including a former
High Court judge have found that the Voice does NOT
confer rights let alone "special rights" and powers
on anyone. The Voice would NOT change or take away
any right, power, or privilege of anyone who is not
Indigenous.

Stop going to disreputable sites and do your research
properly instead of reading biased points of view only.
Broaden your vista and get the true picture.

I read the whole facts of the Uluru convention, and not just the ABC media presentations. Get all the facts, not just selected facts, which hide the hidden agenda. Like: it is just one page. It is not about Treaty. It is not about repatriations. It is just about advice but does not identify what advice. It claims the Voice will give advice about overcoming infant mortality - HOW? They do not attend pre-natal and post-natal clinics but prefer to birth under birthing trees in dust and flies. If the elite know now and they are denying it to their sisters, they are morally derelict in their duty of care.

http://www.indigenoushpf.gov.au/Measures/1-20-Infant-child-mortality
"For Indigenous children aged 1–4, injury and poisoning accounted for almost half of the deaths (47%). The most common causes of injury deaths were transport accidents (16% of injury deaths among Indigenous children) and accidental drowning (10%). The death rate due to injury and poisoning for Indigenous children aged 1–4 was 2.7 times the rate for non-Indigenous children (14 and 5.0 per 100,000, respectively). Deaths due to injury and poisoning accounted for 61% of the gap in death rates between Indigenous and non-Indigenous children aged 1⁠–⁠4.

For Indigenous children aged 1–4, the next highest causes of death were infectious and parasitic diseases (10%), diseases of the nervous system, and signs, symptoms and abnormal clinical and laboratory findings (both 6.3%)"

Josephus,

Again more repetition from you of things that have
nothing to do with the Voice and what we are being asked
to vote for. What we are being asked is to amend the
Constitution to allow for the creation of an Indigenous
advisory body to parliament.

That body may give advice. The government will be under
no obligation to act on that advice.

The advice will only be about matters directly affecting
First Nations communities.

The parliament including Peter Dutton, Jacinta Price and
all the opposition members now and into the future will
design the Voice, including its composition, functions,
power, and procedures.

That's it. That is what we're being asked to say YES or
NO to.

You're arguing things that have nothing to do with the
Voice referendum and what we are being asked to vote on.
Stop doing that. It makes no sense. We've been through
all this yet you keep right on re-gurgitating the
same nonsense.

Josephus, why did you strip the relevant contex from your quotes to impart a completely different impression of the points they were making?

This was disinformation at its finest.

You got caught out but refuse to correct either of them.

By not addressing them you have rendered any thing you have put as completely suspect and not worth anyone's attr tion.

Do the right thing and acknowledge your mendacious behaviour.

Dear Steele,

Here is a link that I feel explains Australia's
situation rather well:

http://bbc.com/news/world-australia-66944609

For Australia 14th October will indeed be a date of
reckoning. History will judge the nation on how it
voted on the rights of its Indigenous people.

Thanks Foxy, the BBC article encapsulates rather well what its all about. I can't help thinking the 'NO' campaign for the majority of their advocates, its not about the Constitution, or the legality of it all, but is rooted in deep seated prejudice and racism, and they are using false arguments to win over the majority of moderates. I have listened to several 'NO' voters pontificate on the subject, and I can spot their undertones of prejudice..., Aboriginals are undeserving, they get too much already, the problems are all their fault, etc etc.

p/s, Its easy to see the bigotry and racism of most of the 'NO' posters on this forum.

Dear Paul,

I found the link I gave an excellent read and it spells
it all out. How after reading all the facts any one
could possibly vote no is beyond my understanding.
The fear and the hate must be so deeply entrenched
in people who actually won't be losing anything by voting
yes.

I just am not able to get my head around any of this negativity.
I honestly had no idea that the prejudice in this country was
so strong. And why? It doesn't make any sense.

We have an Indigenous rich culture in this country that we
should be proud of and we should be preserving. We should be
working together with our Indigenous people and making our
society an inclusive place, a united nation. Not a "Do as I say"
where total control is only in select hands - and only a
select few benefit.

Paul, and Foxy, has been taken in by the communist wedge politics, with sympathy for supposed injustices committed toward aboriginals 200 years ago by the British Crown by stealing their lands and destroying their culture. They fail to see aboriginals were given full citizenship in 1967 and those that have adopted Western culture thrive and prosper, but NO according to them our generosity to improve their plight is not enough they need unelected academics sitting on a Voice telling the Government what laws and programs they need, to give them self determination as a sovereign nation distinct from everyone else. They were here first and have not ceded their sovereignty.