Before he could be thrown "under the bus" Senator David Van has quit the Liberal Party. Accused this week by independent Senator Lidia Thorpe of “inappropriately touching” in a stairwell in parliament house. Although not named by Thorpe but it was obvious she was referring to Van. Then Van was named by former Liberal colleague Amanda Stoker, accusing him of "bottom squeezing" at a Liberal social gathering, also in parliament house. There is a third unspecified allegation against Van, but no details have been given. Van denied Thorpe's allegation, and also said he couldn't recall Stoker's claim. Dutton then moved swiftly to expel Van from the Liberal Party room, today Van resigned from the party altogether, but not before delivering the party a broadside, claiming he is being denied natural justice, saying the Liberal Party is disregarding due process. Do you agree with Van that he is the victim of a witch hunt, or is it simply a case of the party getting rid of an unwanted nasty liability.

Dutton did a Morrison by 'believing women', and ousting from the party a man who has just been accused - not convicted - of sexual misbehaviour. Trial by allegation. We no longer have rule of law or the assumption of innocence until proven guilty in Australia.

I have made my feelings about the crap leadership of the Liberal Party - Turnbull, Morrison and now Dutton, known to SA Senator Alex Antic, the only Liberal politician with a backbone and sense of decency left in that awful imitation of of the communistic Labor party.

ttbn, I say to you, yes and no. Most certainly Van is being denied natural justice, there's accusations, nothing more and in the normal course of events the bloke is innocent until proven guilty. On the other hand, and this seems most unfair on Van, Dutton has a "hot potato", the political reality is no party in the present environment can afford to be seen as supporting a "sex fiend" if the opposition and the media were to choose to call a person that, all based on accusations and little in the way of evidence. Dutton has chosen the safe way out, "sack the bloke", unfortunately for someone that is the reality of politics.

I seen in a door stop interview, Simon Birmingham SA senator, seemed to be pleased if Van got axed, not so much in what he said, but the off the cuff way he said it, no defence there. I don't think Birmingham is all that upset with Van going. Is factionalism of which Birmingham is a leader dividing the Liberal party still?

Birmingham is a pathetic little runt. As for whether or not factionalism is dividing the party - yes it is. But I have no interest in the Liberal Party; it doesn't deserve to survive if the best it can get to lead it are jellyfish like Turnbull, Morrison and now, the biggest flop of them all, Dutton.

Australia is now effectively a one-party state. Just like the PRC we are told to be frightened of. Yes, the CCP is a threat; but the number one threat is within, from a steadily growing ACP. It is axiomatic that Communism never goes away: it just changes its coat.

Brittany Higgins all over again.
Some woman makes an accusation and everyone else is expected to immediately react to it, without any evidence.
Though we might've learned something after that saga, but not in this country.

Hi AC,

Have you heard the latest case of rape in parliament house!

From Hansard;

The Minister for Feminism The Honourable Ms Squeaky Clean; "Madam Speaker, five years ago the member for Macho had a sexual thought about me while I was sitting on the parliamentary karsey!"

Madam Speaker; "DISGUSTING! DO we still have a male in the CHAMBER?"

Ms Squeaky Clean; UNFORTUNATELY WE DO Madam Speaker, and its the Member for Macho, THE DISHONOURABLE MISOGYNISTIC DOG!"

Madam Speaker; "You poor devastated little woman, Minister for Feminism, I have considered the evidence and I will act forthwith on this terrible tragedy, all women need to feel safe when sitting on the parliamentary karsey! Bring him before me! We will apply the parliamentary guillotine immediately......someone get a man to clean up this disgusting blood, its men's work! Back to business, in what is now the safe and wholesome female environment of parliament."

I don't understand why people are avoiding the obvious in this matter: we no longer have assumption of innocence until proven guilty in this country.

We have not had that since Morrison and the SAS; Morrison and Higgins; the media and Cpl. Ben Roberts-Smith and now, Dutton and Van.

Like everyone else, I don't know what Van did or didn't do. I don't know if the two women, plus one not wanting to be identified, are telling the truth or not. And, like everyone else, I will not know until, and unless, Van is charged and given the chance to have the matter decided in a court.

I don't know what everyone else thinks on why the alleged acts were not reported when they were supposed to have happened, nor why the allegations are being made - initially under privilege when the man made a particular speech, followed by two me-tooers. That is suspicious in itself.

Any man who takes advantage of women in the way alleged should get what is coming to him; but we need proof that he did it, first.

So. Back to the obvious misdeed - Dutton, like Morrison, two leaders who should know better - throwing people under the bus on heresay. They are either bad, lawless men, or they are stupid, and have no business being in our parliament.

Hi ttbn,

"I don't understand why people are avoiding the obvious in this matter: we no longer have assumption of innocence until proven guilty in this country."
- That was exactly my point in my previous comment.

I think these grovelling weak men like Dutton and Albo are half the problem, I mean I don't want to be rude, but Lidia Thorpe is not at all very attractive, I find it almost incomprehensible that any man would go out of their way to sexually assault her, let alone risk their career and reputation.

Unless of course the man is a some kind of depraved serial sex pest that cannot control his urges for the life of him.
I'm sure even he could easily do better than Thorpe without much trouble.
- He's a Senator after all, just that fact alone would be enough to get some women wet in the pants.

If it were American politics, presidents like Clinton or Trump would get away with bottom pinching as soft harassment. Or Australian politics like Hawke it would be lauded as playful fun, but things have changed to stop all flirting or sexual aggression in the workplace. With the current workplace laws Van should have known the limits. I do not know how it works if a woman was the aggressor?

Politics is a dirty game, and Mr Van learned a hard lesson. Poor old Dud Dutton must be tearing his hair out, ha,ha, over this one. At the start of the week he had a bucket full of political crap to throw at Gallagher and Labor, good for him! He must have thought; "Wow! things are lookn' up, I've got dynamite!", by the end of the week Dud's on life support as he has to axe Van 'Grub'. I have no sympathy for anyone who cops it in the neck in politics, that's the nature of the beast.

"Greens federal election candidate Jonathan Doig has been jailed for multiple child abuse offences, including paying to watch and direct the live stream of a girl being sexually abused in the Philippines.

Jonathan Doig, who stood against Prime Minister Scott Morrison in the seat of Cook in 2019, was sentenced to nine years jail on Friday in the NSW District Court.

He was arrested in 2020 and accused of storing hundreds of child abuse images on his computer."

Unlike you shadowminister, I don't have a preoccupation with paedophilia. Doug was not an MP, having said that I have no truck with paedophiles at all, be they green, blue, red or any other colour. Other than deflection from the topic what is your point about that dog Doug, only 9 years not enough. Now what do you have to say about Van?

Males who molest females using their superior physical strength and menaces to get away with it deserve what is coming to them.

But, in a civilised society, even the worst people are entitled - by law and by convention - to the presumption of innocence until proven guilty.

However, we have now had, in the recent past as well as this new incident, two Prime Ministers and and Opposition Leader who have blatantly broken the law and convention. We also have, now, government ministers looking as though they are not fit for office.

That's what should be important: not arguments about which political party has had the most perverts of sex offenders.

Paul,

I am only fascinated with the convicted pedos in the greens, especially when green grubs try to point fingers at others when their house is so filthy.

SM

"I (shadowminister) am only fascinated with the convicted pedos" I'll agree with that, you certainly are, bring up the subject at every opportunity......what a strange fellow you are.

As for Van, I posted earlier; " Most certainly Van is being denied natural justice, there's accusations, nothing more and in the normal course of events the bloke is innocent until proven guilty. On the other hand, and this seems most unfair on Van, Dutton has a "hot potato", the political reality is no party in the present environment can afford to be seen as supporting a "sex fiend". Note the quotation marks around "sex fiend", as I don't consider Van Grub did all that much, and the incidents were dealt with previously. There is a third allegation that Dutton acted upon, but that one we don't know anything about.

Paul,

First, you misquote me, and then you call me odd for pointing out The Green's shameful past while you and the gangreens are smearing people on the with the flimsiest of evidence.

The whole bunch of you are slimy grubs.

SM,

I didn't misquote you I forgot to add ... to signify there was more. Both the Greens and Labor have had very little to say about Van, they don't need to, Dutton and co did a hatchet job on Van for them. How about YOU commenting on the topic, and stop the deflection. I don't know how women are treated in your workplace, given your attitude and your claims you are in a "managerial position" of sorts, I wonder if they do all that well, if there are any employed in the first place that is. For all I know you might have a "No Chicks Allowed" policy.

Seeing this thread has turned into a slanging match well off the topic, how about the teacher deregistered in NZ for refusing to use a student's preferred pronouns. And he had to pay the costs of the enquiry into the student's complaint.

Then there is the new PM replacement for Dame Jacinda, who is continuing NZ's love affair with Communist China.

Shortly after Joe Biden accidently got something right and called Xi Jinping a dictator, the new boy jumped in and defended Xi, saying that he is not a dictator. Very tolerant people, the Kiwis: as long as you are NOT a white and a freedom loving, non-racist white bloke, or a Christian school teacher.

ttbn,

You are like Proud Boy Jose', never posting the whole truth, but your distorted take on the subject.

NZ Herald

"He (the teacher) later met with the student during a morning tea break and told him gender transition went against his Christian beliefs."

"The student came up with a compromise, telling the teacher he could refer to him by his preferred name, but continue to use she/her pronouns."

"The teacher again refused, adding words to the effect of not wanting the student to “go down a path of sin”.

The teacher is a Christian fundo nutter, who should keep his 'way out' beliefs to himself, or suffer the consequences

Paul

Truth? You have got a different story from a different source.

Are you claiming that this teacher was not deregistered? That he didn't have to pay the costs of the finding against him? Perhaps your source left that bit out? Or, perhaps you, the bloke who's calling me a liar, did?

This time, it's the NZ Herald that fits in with your narrative.

You brand the teacher as a "Christian fundo nutter, who should keep his 'way out' beliefs to himself".

Way out beliefs? His beliefs are not 'way out'. They have been held for a couple of thousand years by Christians and people of other religious faiths, and people of no faith at all. They have held good since time immemorial.

Most people would suggest that it is the schoolgirl who should keep her minority views to herself in the public/school arena.

The vast majority of people still hold the same beliefs as the teacher does; it is only a small minority of people who do not. Yes, they are loud, and they have frightened the cowardly PC brigade to twist and pervert science and reason, but they are still in the minority.

If any people have 'weird beliefs', it is those who think that they can change their sex, pronouns, birth certificates - whatever - against all reason, sanity and science.

We are hammered with 'believe the science' rhetoric when it comes to climate change, vaccines and so on; but when it comes to real science/biology, that doesn't count!

In the last couple of days, in the UK, there has been an uproar because kitty litter was put in a school toilet because one female student identifies as a cat. In another school (Christian), a female student was expelled because a teacher objected to the kid saying that females have vaginas, and males have penises.

This nonsense will run its course; and, like the myths and mania of climate and a bad case of 'flu, the relatively few people who have taken part in the hoax will have to invent something else to draw attention to themselves.

ttbn,

Pull your head in, at no time did I call you a liar, what you are is selective with the truth, choosing only that what suits your particular world view. Unlike you I gave a source for what I said, the NZ Herald. I did add to what you posted, certain relevant details that you omitted.

The problem is people like you and this teacher, want the right to interfere in other peoples lives, based on your beliefs, even when those other people are doing nothing to impact on your life. This female wants to transition to becoming a male, so what? Not a problem for me, and shouldn't be a problem for you or this fundo teacher, but for some reason it is.

No. I will not pull my head in or be browbeaten by you. The next thing we know, you will be resorting to name-calling, your usual ploy to get people to shut up. I will think, do, and say what I like, when I like, about whom I like, whenever I feel like it - and you can whistle.

Paul,

Once again you are a liar and a fraud. You frequently deliberately misquote me most often claiming things I have never said.

You are clearly an idiot, and probably not allowed near schools either.

SM,

You came onto this thread trying to deflect from Van and the LIBERAL PARTY, and onto others. You can't defend this bloke or the actions of Dutton, so lets talk about something else.

ttbn,

You certainly are an angry little man, very negative. I always refer to you as ttbn, no name calling there. Simply deflecting to a totally unrelated event in another part of the world is irrelevant, and then you only posted the facts from that story that suited your narrative. In what could be described as a magnanimous gesture by the student he offered the teacher an out, in the form of telling the teacher he could refer to him by his preferred name, but continue to use she/her pronouns. In this case the bigoted intractable one is the teacher. But none of that has diddly squat to do with Van and/or the LIBERAL PARTY.

Paul

You got "angry little man" from that awful woman who is thankfully no longer with us. You have to work overtime to replace her.

You use epithets against everybody; you just don't remember doing it. You also project your own faults onto everbody else; but you are not aware of it. You are very unaware.

The only purpose you serve is to constantly remind us how dreadful the Greens and the Left are.

The transgerism has certainly confused you. In one post you refer to the poor silly student as a female wanting to become a male (an absurd wish); in another post you describe the person as a 'him'. The male to female option is more popular than female to male: those who fail at being men think that they will be better off if they pretend to be women.

You are a joke. An archetypal bully, lacking the intellectual capacity to be anything but. Keep it up. Keep on reminding everyone how bad and mad Leftists are. You missed out on a King’s Birthday Award this year, but you might get nominated next year for services to warning everyone about the dangers of socialism/communism.

In the meantime I will decide what affects me, what I think about it, and what I say about it - according to my "narrative", just as you do. And, instead of ignoring you, I will look forward to your posts as a reminder of the rubbish that Australia must say NO to. I now realise that, if we didn't have you here, we could fall into complacency.

What some pundits are saying about the non-stop yabber on the Voice putting people more and more against it could apply to your yabber, too.

ttbn,

You are so full of nastiness, "You (Paul1405) are a joke. An archetypal bully, lacking the intellectual capacity to be anything..bad and mad Leftists.." Another one of your diatribes. Typical of your insecurity is the need to invoke words like "us" and "everyone", are you referring to all the other old white male conservative geriatrics posting here, believing you have supporters and are not just some lonesome loser, which you most certainly are.

What concern is it of yours if a person in NZ wants to transgender, you think you have some authority/right to impose your will on other people when they are not harming YOU, simply because you disagree with their choices. You push One Nation often enough here, that in itself indicates what kind of person you are.

That's the stuff. Keep up the propaganda. Keep us aware of the alternative to democracy - the Greens and the Communists.

I'm OK with being an old, white, conservative male. You seem to be having trouble with your own ageing; mis-generationing yourself in a party for the young and naive, the Greens.

Now, you have me down as a "lonesome loser" with no supporters.

Who are your supporters on OLO?

Unlike you, I am confident in my beliefs and opinions. Supporters? I don't think about that. People agree or disagree with me. I prefer people to agree with me (doesn't everyone, especially you as your increasing anxiety indicates). But, disagreement, different opinions, don't affect me; don't make me doubt my principles and views.

Your outrage, for instance, doesn't matter to me at all. You just need to be called out as you get more strident.

What concerns me about delusional people in New Zealand is the same concern I have for people everywhere, but particularly in Western society. You might not be concerned about people you don't actually know, but I am. And, unlike you: no, I do not feel that I have the "right or authority" to "impose my will" on them. You, however, think that I don't have the right to an opinion. And you are doing a pretty job of trying to impose your will on me, here and now. I am merely rebutting your accusations.

You could be asked why you defend and apologise for people who don't affect your lives by anyone interested.

Finally, I wasn't aware that I was pushing One Nation, or that One Nation wasn't a legitimate political party like, say, the Greens. Nor did I know that referring to One Nation made me a certain "kind of person".

You think that I should "pull my head in". I think you should pull yours out of your arse.

Paul,

You are a creepy little troll and an inveterate liar.

You are happy to dredge up the most flimsy accusations against anyone connected to the liberal party while desperately trying to ignore the convicted paedophiles in the Greens, the homophobic, racist and violent Greens councillor and the foul-mouthed Greens senator.

Every time you hop on your soap box I will be happy to knock you off and remind you of your green's torrid past.

SM,

You admit you are a forum troll, and will target me at every opportunity, feel free. Then I'm not the one who said the Christchurch terrorists, Brenton Tarrant, who murdered 51 innocent people "didn't go far enough" and "he was only acting in retaliation" I know what sort of person would say those things. Rather shameful remarks hummmm, feel free.

So, you have nothing to say on the topic?

Pauliar,

Again you are a lying scumbag. I admitted nothing

You are the only person posting the words "Christchurch terrorists, Brenton Tarrant, who murdered 51 innocent people "didn't go far enough" and "he was only acting in retaliation"

So you are a terrorist-supporting scumbag.

How's your mate Jonathan Doig? He can't go near schools.