I refer to the following:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-04-06/forrests-lose-bid-to-build-project-that-could-kill-sacred-snake/102199638
Hasn't this nonsense gone far enough?
It is time to end it?

IF,

Enough of your loaded bias questions. "nonsense", the tribunal didn't award a section 18 on the grounds that; "because of the area's significance to the Thalanyji (Aboriginal people) and because he did not think the project had enough public benefit." The fact that its "aboriginal" may influence your opinion. I, do not believe in the the water serpent spirit in the river, buts that's nether here nor there, there are a people who do, and its culturally significance to them. Would you be saying "enough of this nonsense" if good old Twiggy was proposing that St Mary's Cathedral in Sydney should be demolished and high rise erected in its place, so it can add to his billions, on the grounds that the belief in a Christian God is nonsense, and therefore has no cultural significance. Poor old Twiggy will just have to console himself with his billions, and get over it.

Is it churlish to point out that St Mary's Cathedral actually exists whereas the water serpent Warnamankura....ahem, doesn't?

Ipso

Alas, the nonsense has only begun. I don't like Forrest, but he has done a hell of a lot to help remote aboriginals. Perhaps, like Gina Rinehart, he might find a more grateful and polite group of people to share his wealth with.

I have to agree with Paul1405 on this. This insane mining everything now is not just thoughtless, it is also very dangerous. Let's leave some of these resources for later generation with better technology & better mentality !
Most of these resources only go into frivolous & utterly pointless manufacturing that only aids in polluting the environment.
People who think that more commodities are needed for more people should start thinking for more birth control.

mhaze,

St Mary's Cathedral exists, just a surely does the Ashburton River exist, you fail to compare apples to apples. The Christian God no more exists than does the water serpent spirit exist, but they may exist. Christians need St Mary's Cathedral preserved in its present state to venerate, some would say non existent, God. The Thalanyji people need the Ashburton River preserved in its present state to venerate, some would say non existent, water serpent spirit. Just as I would not want to see St Mary's Cathedral destroyed, I don't want the Ashburton River destroyed. And its conveniently not mentioned that the Twiggy project does not have enough public benefit. No, IF uses the word "nonsense" in his loaded question, just indicates he is biased against Aboriginal people, and what they believe.

As per an article by one David Barton: "Most people don't realise the Australia is at war - with itself". (Quadrant.org.au).

The war is about ownership: who is going to control the country. The people through a democratic parliament, or by those who "ignore (their own) European bloodlines and heritage to identify solely as Aboriginals".

The Voice referendum will determine the answer.

Some of the things Barton lists that we have already lost in the war with aboriginal (or part thereof) activists are:

. Language with many English place names are being replaced with Aboriginal names.

. Access to land and waters denied or payment to enter.

. Freehold title to National Parks now handed over to localised Aboriginal Corporations.

. Our children’s education about early Australian history now revised, distorted and perverted into self-loathing.

"All of what we have lost, of what has been forced upon us, has all been done to us without any consultation and without our permission or consent".

All to 3% of the population - many of whom, it is believed - are not aboriginal at all, or even part aboriginal.

We are not just in a "culture war" Barton writes, but we are in a war against "the reshaping of our whole society".

And, the Albanese government and some of the gormless citizenry are fighting against us on the wrong side.

I am certainly biassed against those who live in a fantasy world, and try to inflict their 'beliefs' on others.
People are entitled to hold strange personal views if they want to, but to insist others follow suit is both unlawful and ridiculous.
However, it seems the law must take in to account the 'existence' of a water serpent during some aspects of its deliberations.
That is quite absurd to me.
It is making a mockery of the serious intent of the law?
But still I am glad others have a different slant on this.
It wouldn't do for us all to be the same, would it?
I was more concerned with the 'water serpent' than with Twiggy.
He was incidental to my interest.
Perhaps I should have quoted from the article.
For example the court found:

...implementation of the ... project, which will affect the natural flow of the river, risks killing or harming the water snake, or causing the water snake to become angry.
'And that that would have a significant adverse impact on the Thalaynji people.'

It is true that it must be an ill wind which blows no good, but to endure such an extreme example?......

ttbn:
Thank you for the link.
I agree with 90% of what is said there.
But it doesn't go far enough?
The situation could be far more serious and urgent than it dares to suggest?
We have already travelled a long way down a very dangerous road.
We are fortunate there are learned and clever people in the crowd around us.
In fact, there are always good men who are willing to step forward in a crisis.
I think they will be well able to explain our dilemma to the population at large.
But I do wish those with this know-how would stop fiddling whilst rome burns.
At least we are moving in the right direction now.

Australia's worst enemies are from within !

Thanks ttbn for the quadrant article.

In typical conservative fashion some are bemoaning small changes that recognise the roll of Aboriginal people in Australia. For example; "English place names are being replaced with Aboriginal names." Oh dear, shock horror, most upsetting, I would say insignificant recompense for 200 years of murder and genocide, but like any recognition the 'Usual Suspect' will try and carry on the fight their ancestors instigated in 1788. One of the great "achievements" of the Phillip governorship (1788-1792) was his ability to wipe out over half, possibly up to 90%, of the Aboriginal population around the new colony.

Oh, I thought Paul was supportive of immigrants who arrive in Australia by boat. We are constantly told that immigrants enhance our multicultural society and diversity and that they significantly improve our economic performance. I'd have thought that the refugees who arrived in Sydney in 1788 are great examples of how immigration benefits society,

After many years and many billions of dollars plus cushy quangos for city aborigines, the lot of aboriginals and some part aboriginals who are missing out on the benefits of modern society has not changed one iota; they are still at the bottom of the heap.

Not a thing has been said or done - or proposed - recently has Buckley's Chance of making life better for about 20% of aboriginal identifiers who, in the past and now, have not in given any indication that they want their lives to change through their own efforts or with the help of others.

People who think that aboriginals are so DIFFERENT from the rest of us and therefore need help from our despised white Anglo culture, stubbornly refuse to accept that it is the ancient aboriginal CULTURE that is still holding back the 20% or so people who have never caught up with modern times. Eighty percent of aboriginal identifiers themselves know this and they have adapted - assimilated, to use a 'taboo' word. They don't need help; and the very few who are still talking about serpents, refusing to work, get educated, speak English, and who are living in prehistory, are not going to be helped, particularly by interfering with a Constitution that represents modern civilisation that they have rejected, with the aid of people posing as their saviours. People who, hypocritically, call themselves "progressives".

Yup I too am heartedly sick of it.

We have wrung most of our significant rivers dry in this country.

Flow stressed waterways are now a feature in all our states. Most rivers can wear some diversions but there are some now with over 80% of their flows removed.

Put simply Twiggy wanted to put 10 weirs on the river where it ran through his property so he could strip more water from it. This not only serves to decrease flows but also creates barriers to stop fish species moving up and down the river to breed.

This is just well understood basic science. The fact that local indigenous people are telling of the same intuitive understanding but in mythical form does not negate the obvious.

The continued un-critical support from many on this forum for the actions of our billionaire class is just sickening.

Wake up.

Thanks Steele, the thumbs up sign from me. I am sick and tied of this bunch of Old Farts, and their fawning over the mega rich. Most of them are Old Aged Pensioners with the arse out of their trousers Twiggy Moneybags couldn't give a toss about them.

SR,

If the weir proposal had been rejected because of the damage to the ecosystem that it may cause which you claim is "obvious" then you might have a case. But it wasn't so you don't.

It was rejected because some stone age people made up a story to try to explain what was inexplicable to them. All stone age people did that. But some of us have moved on since then.

In the modern world, compromises have to be made between the environment and producing the wherewithal to enable modern life. Actually, come to think of it, its not just the modern world. Even in the ancient world such compromises were required which explains extinction of the American horse and the Australian mega-fauna.

Not so long ago you were swooning over stories of weirs being built by stone age folk in Victoria to capture eels. I bet you feel really repentant know that you know the obvious...that it "not only serves to decrease flows but also creates barriers to stop fish species moving up and down the river to breed."

So true mhaze, but it wasn't only stone age people who made up stories to try to explain, the to them, inexplicable.

Computer age folk are even dumber. They don't manage to develop their own myths, they have to have lefty academics do it for them.

Having been given their ridiculous myths, such as CO2 will heat up the earth, like their stone age brethren, they then cling to their them, no matter how often they are proved ridiculous.

Its only "stone age" people who believe in such nonsense as serpents, oh no, modern day Europeans wouldn't believe in a load of biblical fairy tails, about people living in gardens, arks and whales for example. I have a couple of JW's call on me, and when it comes to beliefs they are more tutti-fruiti, than the average forum Old Fart. There was one Old Fart here banging on about place names, this story is about the Ashburton River, not only is it a river in WA, its also a place in Victoria, and a city in Canada. I would like to see my local area renamed from its bastardised English name to the indigenous name it was know by for 20,000 years.

Hassy old cock, you haven't mentioned for some time that other old cock living up the road from you, who you said had a thermometer in his chook shed that proves climate change is a hoax. Did he fall off the perch or some such thing? Maybe he drowned in the last unexpected flood cased by climate change.

Looks like there's another "stolen" bandwagon in the making. Some bright spark only just now realised that Aborigines were taken to Makassar over the Centuries.

The laws on water rights are different in each state. In South Aus for example even the rain water that falls on your roof belongs to the state.

In Queensland any riparian land holder is entitled to stock & domestic water from an adjacent river. They may do minor works, such as installing a foot valve in the water course for pumping, but may not indulge in earth works, such as building a weir or digging a hole in the river bed.

During the 1993/4 drought our river stopped flowing for about 5 months each year. Most of us had a puddle somewhere where the water still flowing through the 3 meter deep sand in the bottom of the river bed allowed us to pump enough water for stock. I had a 600mm deep 10 meter diameter pool packed with small fish, prawns & even a couple of small eels.

I installed a 300mm PVC pipe with fine slots cut into it vertically in the bottom of the pool to strain out the wildlife, with a 8 liter/minute 12V pump, pumping enough stock water up the 25 meters to a collection of drums & bath tubs at the top of the river bank.

Many had something similar. When the down stream pools started going dry we found a turf farmer had dug an Olympic pool size hole in the river bed to gather enough water to irrigate, sucking the entire flow for a period each day. The local irrigation committee had to inform him this was illegal. We could see his problem. No irrigation meant no turf & no cash to pay the mortgage, but he had to fill the hole. Luckily he found a job off farm to tide him over.

If our river has a serpent I will happily cut it's head off, I will not be ruled by stone age myths, but I will not see anyone take more than a fair share of any water from his down stream neighbors.

I am secretary of our local irrigation committee. Our charter demands that if there is water flowing into the top of our stretch of river complex, there is water flowing out of the bottom of it. To achieve this we impose restrictions on ourselves.

First we restrict the number of days we can pump water, then we restrict the number of hours per day we can pump. There is some flexibility in this, & small user with a 5,000 gallon/hour pump may be allowed a longer pump period than one with a 40,000 gallon/hour instillation, but not much. For those who are interested, it takes 25,000 gallons to put an inch on an acre.

We also have a large sand miner on our stretch of river. No washing plant means no sand production. They have been great in establishing settling ponds to ensure quality of water, & making sure most of their usage is returned to the river for down stream use. They also have a couple of bores the use of which may actually augment the river flow.

We don't use as much water today as 30 years ago. The last dairy farm closed a few years back, as did the last big market garden. The Vietnamese family who worked their backsides off for not much, are much happier running a few trucks. As it gets harder every year to make a living producing food, I guess that will have to be imported from China sometime soon too, & our fresh water can run uselessly out to sea to kill the coral.

Dear Hasbeen,

How's it going old cock? Good?

You say: “Having been given their ridiculous myths, such as CO2 will heat up the earth”.

CO2 already heats up the earth mate and has done for a very long time. It has little regard for you cultish beliefs, superstitions and anti-science, Trump fed views of the world.

Well it is good to see you have loosened, even if only slightly, your I'm all right Jack and bugger the rest mentality. You have realised that the system is connected and loam farmers putting in big dams to harvest water is not on.

Most people broaden their world view as they age. Their empathy extends to wider and wider groups as they mature, often to other species and ecosystems. To say yours has been severely stunted is an understatement.

Given the eels in your stretch of the river are probably short finned ones which are born in the Coral Sea and migrate up Eastern seaboard rivers during summer flows which are now severely restricted, your wanting to grasp all the water purely for human use would kill them off in your river. That is what "cutting the serpent's head off" entails and you would revel in it wouldn't you.

This country is really going to be a lot better off when dinosaurs and their reptilian brains fade away.

Water allocation & irrigation & indeed the bulk of present & immediate future infrastructure need new thinking & for that new brains are needed. The present ones are failing the Nation !

It is a pity SR that those writing your lefty hymn book didn't have enough math to understand the fact that CO2 can do about 2 fifths of stuff all to the global temperature.

Come to think of it, which chapters did you write?

God I am getting sick of fools who think they are smart.

Hassy,

You did say that years ago you moved into a thriving green oasis, and in no time flat managed to turn it into your own personal Sahara sand hill by fighting against nature and the environment? Have you done as I suggested, contacted the local mob, and the Greens to see if your bit of Death Valley can be salvaged? And you're the secretary of the local irrigation committee!

Dear Hasbeen,

So where exactly is your thinking at now? I'm never sure.

Do you accept that without CHGs the world would be an average temperature of -18C rather than the +14C that we have now?

Or has the cult sucked you in so far that even this basic physics can not be countenanced?

If you had enough math to know which way was up SR you would know that water vapor is already doing 99% of what CO2 could do.

To help you understand with out the math, just think of clear & cloudy nights. Cloudy nights warm, lots of water vapor forming cloud, the real warmer. Clear nights, just as much CO2 as warm nights doing just what CO2 can do, 2 fifths of stuff all, so very cool.

"Water allocation & irrigation & indeed the bulk of present & immediate future infrastructure need new thinking & for that new brains are needed. The present ones are failing the Nation !"

- 200k+ new immigrants a year aren't going to produce a single drop of water, but they will consume lots of it.

Someone please help me but I have to agree with Paul1405 again !

Hi Indy,

Another idea, with the shortage of labour, do you think that a special employment style agency for Seniors should be set up. The idea being this agency could be easily accessed by those in retirement, and based on a retirees skills and work requirements, specialise in matching local part time work for Seniors, without endangering their retirement benefits. A friend of ours on the pension is looking for 3 hours work a day, five days a week, but it has to be in the afternoons from say 2pm to 5pm. She's finding plenty of "work", but not suitable because of her special requirements.

Paul1405,
You don’t appear to have a mentality that incorporates a sense of fairness. A senior or rather an old age pensioner who has contributed to society for 50+ years has earned to rest for the last few years. What you argue is for young people to have a share in this common wealth without having to proof any effort or commitment for the society they live in & supports them far beyond their usefulness. They still have to contribute to the coffers for their own old age unlike the old who already have !
Re the old lady who wants to work a few hours to suit her you failed to present her personal situation as to wether she is either selfish, needy or simply feels sh can still contribute whereas many young simply demand without caring about the rest of us !

Paul1405,
I forgot to say that there is no such thing as shortage of Labour, there’s only lack of will to work & a lack of enforcing some discipline & responsibility !

Any news on that causeway .

Looks like that causeway feigned indignation bandwagon has lost all momentum !