Ben Pobjie tells us that:

"The modern home is obsessed with "reality'. Like
ravenous wolves we consume the exploits of reality TV stars,
dissatisfied with fiction and desperate to be entertained
by the lives of 'real people'. Real home cooks, real top
models, real singers, real fat people, real whatever the
people on "The Bachelor" are - these are what we live for now."

And yet, we so often neglect the greatest reality show of all,
the reality of our own lives and our own relationships.

I'm currently addicted to watching "Married at First Sight".
And I can't wait to see what happens next.

From watching that show and the inter-play of the various
couples I thought it might be interesting to see what's
important to us on the Forum in our relationships.

Some people on "Married At First Sight" -
seem obsessed with money, ambition, drive, a successful
job or career as being very important when they're seeking a
life partner.

Others want intimacy and sex. Having sex regularly is
important to some. While others want to feel that they are
loved and chemistry is important. As is a display of
afffection. Hugs, kisses, holding hands - physical contact.

Others want a combination of all three factors - Money, sex, and
love.

What's important to you? What do you like to give and
receive? What makes for a successful marriage/partnership
in your eyes? Is it important to you in the "roles" each one
has in a relationship. Like in days of old where
the female did all the household chores? Is it important
for the man to "control" things? How flexible are you in
your relationships?

This should be fun to discuss and share.

Foxy,
As it would be crystal clear to anyone here already, I like harmony, stability & compassion.
I am absolutely opposed to Woke divisiveness, greed & disregard.
That's why I am more conservative than liberal.
Money, Sex & Love are fantastic if they're founded on decency & honesty but are utterly evil if manipulated by self-serving Woke !

I have enough money, sex is a memory, I am secure in the love of my wife and older son. Learning more in my areas of interest is the most important part of my current life. The beauty and ugliness of history, poetry, nature, philosophy, mathematics and literature are what occupy me outside of the necessities of living.

Hi Indyvidual,

Thanks for your comments.

Harmony, stability, and hopefully compassion is
something most of us would want and strive for.
But as I have learned from watching the young
couples on "Married at First Sight," TV program
stability and compassion are not easy to come by
if you're partner is career driven, or a
philanderer, or is not capable of showing love
emotion, intimacy as well as being a control freak.

To me personally - family has always come first.
Money - has never mattered all that much. I've
worked in jobs all of my life and always
managed to cope. Love and intimacy matter - lots
of hugs and kisses are part of my life. I'm a very
tactile person - as my grandkids will tell you.

Dear David,

Your wife and family are very lucky to have you in their
lives.

"Married at First Sight,"
Foxy,
If our Senior Bureaudroids & Politicians had an ounce of decency, they'd take that sexual "Meat Mart" off the Air in a flash !
Arranged marriages in some cultures are bad enough but this circus is something else !

indyvidual,

It's a show about relationships.

And very addictive.

Try it and you'll see.

I used to poo-poo it too, until I tried it.

Indyvidual,

Have you ever watched the British TV series:
"As Time Goes By," starring Dame Judy Dench?

Superb series.

Thank you Foxy for an interesting topic to talk about.

For me the most important thing I longed for (and have eventually found) was someone to share stuff with. Be it the everyday mundane things of life, or the exciting, unexpected adventures. This is born of always being lonely as a kid, never fitting in, being drawn to things my peers weren't (I took up conjuring and would practice for hours alone in my bedroom.)

Family was never a big one for me. My biological family were quite horrific actually. Now I have a family around me of my choosing. As far as financial wealth is concerned, that's never been important either. I have a loving partner, a roof over my head, every now and then I have smoked salmon on my scrambled eggs for breakfast, and Uncle Dan always has a decent bottle of wine on special. What else could I wish for?

Hi Aries54,

Your life sounds great.

I can identify with certain aspects of yours.
When I was little I didn't have many toys so I used
to have a sock puppet that I would tell stories
to and play with it for hours on end. To me it
was real. And then I became involved with stories
as an adult. Funny how things pan out.

Stories to me were an escape. A world that I could enter
at any time.

It is amazing how some people can't mind their own business, and others are so willing to spill their guts to Nosey Parkers.

then why are you here spilling your guts?
And why are you so concerned about what others are
doing? It's none of your business either.
So you qualify as not only a nosey parker. But a PEST!
Minding everyone else's business instead of his own.

The trouble is I am a writer and most writers are
nosey parkers.

You on the other hand - if you stop focusing on
other people's lives you'd have more time to fix
you own.

Foxy, I always find it infinitely fascinating and yet somehow sad that some people (whoever could I be thinking of?) can't find any joy in life or smell the roses, but rather concentrate on a futile battle to convince everyone else that they should be / must be just like them or else the world will end.

Hi Foxy,

The wife and I are not into those "reality" and "soaps" on TV, I can honestly say I've never purposely watch and episode of "Neighbours" or "Home And Away" or those "talent' shows they continually promote, who will be the next big star! SBS has a great cooking channel, ABC has the best news coverage. WE watch the 'Chase' some nights on Ch7, that's followed by two sad sacks with so called news, they would make a person want to puke! Oh! the wife enjoys "Outback Truckers", I think she can identify with some folks on it, not sure how, but says she does! We spend time on video calls catching up with family, that can be entertainment enough! family and friends visits are popular. There's nothing like a good book.

Dear Paul1405,

Woody Allen said, "Outside of a dog a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read."

I can't stand those "reality" shows, they are as heavily scripted as any of the dreadful soapies or even worse the "drama" shows favored by the ABC. 96 & 3 have all the best documentaries that used to be on the ABC before it went totally woke. Anything on it now is heavily loaded with the "MESSAGE", what ever the current greeny, lefty homosexual message might be.

I think Arranged marriages might be a good way actually, I believe we are programed to love those we sleep with. I noticed as a young bloke that most of my mates fell in love with, & married the first girl who took them to bed....nicely. most of those marriages worked well, the kids were young enough to survive knocking the rough edges off each other. And it was usually the girl leading the bloke, rather than being seduced. Those coming together later can have trouble with those rough edges.

Never drank, smoked, gambled, or romanced bad women, so only needed enough money for racing cars, yachts & show jumpers, so needed less money than most. I did like to own my own house, which helped against inflation.

Only bothered with ladies who really turned me on, so not all that many have been in my life. Met my lady in Gladstone while on a single handed trip from Rabaul to Sydney, a 5500 mile trip. She was crewing on a yacht with a couple of blokes so assumed, as you do, she was with one of them. There were a few yachts heading south, & we often met at different anchorages & towns. They crewed for me in a couple of races, & I danced with her a couple of times at various yacht clubs.

They were in Mooloolaba when I left for Sydney, when I got there she was there waiting for me & moved aboard. That was 46 years ago. I owned that yacht 19 years & this property 32, so when I fall in love I guess it's for keeps.

.

Foxy,

I am not spilling my guts. I am not answering your questions like other posters, who apparently like talking about themselves as much as you do. My life and likes are none of your business.

And, you are not a writer. Like anyone else, you can say anything you like, make any wild claims about yourself, because you are just a name on a computer screen, and you don't have to come up with the goods. Nobody knows anything about you, nor you about them. The internet is all fantasy and horsefeathers. OK for a bit of fun, and an outlet for people without power and position to let off a bit of steam. And that's it. It's not real. Not to be taken seriously. Fake. People like you mistake it for real life.

We posters are just made up names on a computer screen. No personality. Nothing.t6

This is interesting-

Esther Perel: The secret to desire in a long-term relationship | TED Talk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sa0RUmGTCYY

It talks about the paradox between sex and love between novel risk and boring stability. A child is happy to explore when they know they can return to safety.

And life isn't all about sex or love or money in a sense- it's about stability with occasional novelty.

Human's are paradoxical- their brains are made of many layers which have contradictory drives and physically different structures- reptilian (flight, fight- brain font), mammilian, primate, human. In order to avoid reflecting this instability in society human's need to be active in promoting stability in society and more broadly. Some prefer to stir people up and let nature take it's course- chaos- and they can divide people against themselves- and they can profit.

We need to reduce complexity to reduce instability.

ttbn,

Being your nasty self as usual, Foxy is not asking you to spill your guts, who would want to see what comes out anyway. This is a free forum, and topics are approved by the Administrator, not YOU, although you have said in the past you think YOU would do a better job, and you want certain people and topics banned. Get real!

Esther Perel says that imagination is critical- paraphrasing "even if the suiter goes to the office for a million dollar purchase it doesn't matter if reception isn't at the desk".

Perhaps that is the problem with those that continually seek novelty- "a lack of imagination"- they have an external locus of identity.

Hi Aries54,

It's funny how people who know the least about us, have
the most to say.

Thank you for your kind words.

____________________________________________________________________

Hi Paul,

I agree that there's nothing like a good book but sometimes
work exhaustion sets in and television provides an escape.

My TV programs vary. From reality shows to murder mysteries,
to live entertainment. I enjoy Quiz Shows (for the questions).
Shows like "Millionaire Hot Seat," "Million Dollar Minute,"
"The Chase," then I also watch "Kavanaugh QC", "Inspector
Morse", "Midsummer Murders," "Lewis," and even "Father Brown".

There's also - "Insiders," "Q & A", "Foreign Correspondent,"
"Australian Story," "Four Corners," "Back Roads," "Getaway."
I love " As Time Goes By," with Dame Judi Dench.
And many others. It depends on my mood.

_______________________________________________________________

Hi David,

I love Woody Allen's sarcastic and witty humour. For example:

"I took a speed-reading course and read "War and Peace" in
20 minutes. It involves Russia."

_________________________________________________________________

Hi Hasbeen,

Reality shows are pure escapism for me. It's interesting
watching the lives of other people and how others live
and think. We can watch a wide range of personality traits
and relationships. Sometimes I find people with whom I can
identify.

I'm not sure about arranged marriages though. Although I
do think common interests and similar cultural backgrounds
do help for family connections as well.

My husband and I met at a University Convention held in
Melbourne. It was a holiday romance. I was from Sydney and
returned home after the Convention. I thought I'd not hear
from this charming fellow again. But, he turned up in
Sydney a few weeks later and ended up moving to Sydney.
The rest as they say is history.

First came marriage, then travelling overseas, living and
working on two continents. Over ten years in Los Angeles.
Two children and four grand children later - here we are.
Both still together. Still in a committed relationship.
Did someone say - stability and harmony?

____________________________________________________________________

Hi Canem Malum,

Thank you for the link. And for introducing us
to Esther Perel's work on relationships. It certainly is
interesting.

The forced abandoning of imagination is causing kids to become emotionless, insensitive droids at a stage when they're supposed to be adults !

Did someone say - stability and harmony?
Foxy,
How many times did you & your husband have to leave a place to look for work, accepting what you could get, not what you really wanted ?
I had to give up my flying lessons when the Goaf & Co sent companies broke including the one I worked for.
Three years of basic wage with no affordability to continue training followed & by then I had to spend nearly half my wage on renting for the following 25 years.
Stability for me didn't come until my late 40's & harmony will vane once the Woke occupy all seats in authority.
I'd love to last to see them be felled by their own stupidity !

The definition of woke I found was:

adjective

"having or marked by an active awareness of systemic injustices and prejudices, especially those involving the treatment of ethnic, racial, or sexual minorities: In light of incidents of police brutality, it’s important to stay woke.He took one African American history class and now he thinks he’s woke.This generation of kids is trying to make woke choices in life.

Disparaging. of or relating to a liberal progressive orthodoxy, especially promoting inclusive policies or ideologies that welcome or embrace ethnic, racial, or sexual minorities.

Slang. aware of the facts, true situation, etc. (sometimes used facetiously): The moon landing was staged. Stay woke!
awake: I had to drink lots of coffee this morning to stay woke."

I think the liberal, progressive ideology is a good thing. I think it's good to be inclusive of all ethnic, racial and sexual minorities. I hope systemic racial, ethnic or sexual injustice will be lessened or eliminated. I will try to be woke.

The definition of woke I found was:
davidf,

https://www.independent.org/news/article.asp?id=13758

Dear Indyvidual,

David Hume said “Reason is the slave of the passions.” Our opinions are based on our feelings. Our feelings are a product of much that is beyond our control – our childhood, our parents, our associates, our position in society etc. My opinion is that being woke is good. Victor Hanson and you have a different opinion. If I had your background or the background of Victor Hanson I would probably agree with you. As it is I have my background and feeling that being woke is a good thing is my feeling.

I am not going to convince you to support my opinion, and you are not going to convince me to support your opinion. We live in a democratic society. If a majority support an idea, that is what will be, and those who don’t like it will have to live with it.

Victor Hanson called Wokeness evil. Evil may mean nothing more than, “I really don’t like it.”

I really do like it.

indyvidual,

I've never had a problem with imagination. My grand mother
was a great storyteller and she made sure that she read all
sorts of stories to me. I did the same with my children
and am doing the same with my grand-children. There's so
many wonderful books out there.

As for working in jobs we didn't like? My family came to
this country with very little. Due to the labour shortages
at that time they had to work for two years in jobs that
were needed.. They went wherever the government sent them.
Dad's last job before he died was in a rubber factory in
Sydney. He died of a massive coronary at the age of 52.

I've worked in all sorts of jobs as did my husband - in order
to support our family We've both had varied careers over two
continents. Neither one of us ever lost our jobs.

I'm sorry that your experiences were not positive. But hopefully
things have improved for you.

Hi David,

Thank you for explaining the "woke" term. I agree that caring about
fellow human beings is important. We may at times be powerless
to stop injustice and we should never be silent when we see it.
And speak up.

I found a bit more about the term "woke".

The term has found itself into the mainstream vocabulary.
But many are still unsure of the meaning. I used to think
it was US slang - meaning to wake up, or awaken.

"aware of and actively attentive to important facts and
issues, especially issues of racial and social injustice".

Words change. Woke nowadays refers to being aware or
well-informed in a political or cultural sense, especially
regarding issues surrounding marginalised communities.
It describes someone who has "" woken up" to issues of
social injustice.

I'm so pleased (and grateful) that my husband is
"woke". I doubt if I could be compatible with
someone who was not on the same wave-length as myself.
Who took an interest in what's going on in the world.
It would be difficult living with
who would not be well informed in a political or
cultural sense especially regarding issues.

My husband is well-informed. And I enjoy discussing
issues with him. Life is never dull or boring. It
doesn't mean we agree on everything - we don't.
That's also what makes things interesting

Hi Foxy,

Do you notice on this Forum, the hard right posters actually oppose all those, "not like them". They believe, all in society should act in ways that reflect their values only, regardless if others values impact directly on them or not. A perfect example is ttbn, he gets on here blowing up and demanding those not like him, along with their opinions be removed, and this forum be nothing more than an echo chamber for his and those of the same ilk world view.

One of ttbn's great laments is the vast majority of Australians don't agree with him, and he can't understand why. Must be the work of us "woke" people, nothing to do with the fact his world view is well and truly anchored in the 1950's, long before the vast majority were even born.

Dear Paul,

I guess a discussion forum such as this one is going
to get people with all sorts of opinions contributing to it -
Being a forum of political and social debate - the views are
going to get heated at times.

Still people can surprise us. And they have me on numerous
occasions. And it's also
a question of self-reflection as well. To me even after
all these years here, it is still a learning process
of what to do, what not to do. And how to do it better.

That's where people such as yourself, and others -
who can make me laugh out loud at times help my journey
here. So very much. Also my husband's advice also helps.

All in all I am grateful not only for my husband and family,
but for being given the privilege to exchange thoughts and
opinions. I'm grateful for the balance that's
provided on this forum by the rational people here of which there
are many.

Our opinions are based on our feelings.
davidf,
Our feelings are the result of our experiences. One may have a certain feeling of something but this feeling may or may not change our opinion once an experience is experienced !
As in 'He/she seemed like a nice person until I got to know them" & that is what changes our feelings & we change our opinion accordingly.
If someone tells you what you want to hear then you tend to think better of them than if they disagreed with you from the start.
The Woke will say everything that is good but the end result is that they're exploiting & abusing by saying one thing & doing another, exactly in the way they accuse those of doing.
The Woke are not only extremely hypocritical, they're also devoid of integrity !
Anyhow, we agreed to disagree.

indyvidual,

Facts versus feelings?

I understand that you trust your gut more than any
"experts". You said so in the past. And in today's
emotional politics reason has to fight for a seat
at the table. Misinformed people rarely change their
minds when presented with facts and often become even
more attached to their beliefs.

Winston Churchill said:

"The best argument against democracy is a five minute
conversation with the average voter".

It would be wonderful if that wasn't true.

But we have to take people's feelings seriously in today's
political world and not dismiss them as irrational.
The last federal election showed us that political issues
such as climate change mattered.

Hilary Clinton's mistake in 2016, and her unfortunate reference
to the "deplorables"(those most likely to vote for Mr Trump)
didn't help her.

indyvidual,

Not sure why you're so anti- the "woke".
We need people in our society who speak
up against injustice and try to change
things for the better for everybody.

Indyvidual wrote:

"The Woke will say everything that is good but the end result is that they're exploiting & abusing by saying one thing & doing another, exactly in the way they accuse those of doing.
The Woke are not only extremely hypocritical, they're also devoid of integrity !"

translation: Those who disagree with me are dirty dogs.

Dear David,

The "mad" King George III said:

" A traitor is everyone who does not agree with me".

Putin feels the same way.

translation: Those who disagree with me are dirty dogs.
davidf,
I gather you didn't like what you read so now I'm a dirty dog ?

Dear Indyvidual,

I don't think you're a dirty dog because you disagree with me. I don't have to adopt your rhetoric. People who disagree with me are people who disagree with me - nothing more. I don't have to say they are hypocritical or devoid of integrity. You are better at insulting people than I am, and you win at that sort of game.

I guess we find comfort among those who agree with us.

I'm not suggesting that we have to always agree but usually
our friends are people with whom we do have something in common.
If we couldn't agree on anything I doubt if we would be
friends for very long.

Dear Foxy,

I was against the Vietnamese War. I once got into an argument with a man who supported it. We wound up completely agreeing on the facts but with different opinions. We parted friends, and that was a satisfying argument.

The sophists who were pre-Socratic Greek philosophers had a technique called Dissoi logoi.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissoi_logoi

“Dissoi Logoi, also called dialexeis, is a two-fold argument, which considers each side of an argument in hopes of coming to a deeper truth.”

A Greek demonstrated the technique to a group of Romans. The Romans heard him argue for an opinion. When he started to argue against the opinion he had previously argued for they killed him. I understand their anger. How can anyone honestly argue two sides of a controversial question? I can also understand the sophist. It is valuable to try to consider matters from the other person’s point of view. That can lead to compromise or understanding.

Good arguments are ad rem - to the thing. Bad arguments are ad hominem - to the man or person.

Dear David,

My father-in-law firmly believed that people should only
marry their own kind. From their own cultural background.
He wanted that for his only child. I did meet his
criteria. But in the beginning our relationship was not
a very warm one. He looked at me with suspicion and
thought my views were too progressive on many issues.

Initially I made the mistake of arguing with him. I shouldn't
have. It took quite a few years to let him see that perhaps
I wasn't so bad after all. Eventually, we both became very fond
of each other and would spend hours talking. I learned a lot
from that man. I always respected his opinion.

How important is it to marry someone from the same
culture?

To my parents it was very important. They wanted the culture
in which I was raised, the language, the food, the traditions,
the history, all part of who our family was and what I had
inherited, to be passed on.

How important is it really?

Indyvidual- Don't worry mate- I'm a dirty dog too.

In regards to Foxy's "How important is it to marry someone from the same culture?" - In regards to the motivation behind this question- There's possibly some success/ selection bias here- or possibly Grass is Greener bias- which can be related to fear of commitment.

The simple answer is identity and culture are the way we see the world.

Confucius said that the family is the atom of society. Marriage is the creation of the family. So the structure of the family supports or degrades the society and culture- and even influences the stability of relationships between cultures.

It's hard to maintain stability with change.

This is why Marx and others try to destroy culture- for power-even discrediting the concept of the family and marriage and culture- reverting to nihilism. In a sense Marxist thought correlates with ultra-Machiavellian ideas of dividing society even atomizing society against itself. You could perhaps accuse the Westminster system of doing the same thing- but in this case- the institutions are divided against each other for the benefit of society.

But there is a relationship sometimes ironic between perceptive and empirical reality.

In regards to David F's comment- I'm not sure we should be taking Woody Allen as the epitome of wisdom or virtue. But I suppose from Allen's point of view it's dogs all the way down. There's nothing wrong with dogs- even bad ones in a sense- all things under heaven.

The paradox of wisdom is that it doesn't have to come from the wise or dogs.

Marrying someone from a different culture or race used
to be frowned upon. It was not something I ever
considered because my husband and I felt an inexplicable
attraction between us which has sustained our marriage
through several decades and the raising of two children.
It also helped that we agree on fundamental issues and that
our families found things they had in common.

Therefore I can only image what marriage to a person from
a different culture would be like. I imagine a mixed
marriage would open one's heart not just to one person but
also to an entire new culture or racial group. One's world
would expand.

I imagine one's children would be more open
and understanding of other racial races and cultures.
So I think it would be a positive
thing. I have an Iranian girlfriend who follows the
Bahai religion. The Baha'is believe in the unity of humanity
they say that -" love and marriage should transcend all
limitations imposed by race".

I can't say that this always works for everybody. We're all
individuals with our own quirks and prejudices. Also family
members may come into the equation as well. They may also
influence some of us.

If you can have Money, Sex & Love why get married ? (Woke, it's a joke)

Hi Canem Malum,

Thank you for your thoughts.

As for "dirty dogs?"

A soapy bath can work magic and if they are combed
and brushed lovingly they might become once again
white dogs with black spots.

indyvidual,

Good point made.

But in life how often do we get all three of
money, sex, and love?

Even Rupert Murdoch doesn't always succeed.

How many of you are in "mixed marriages?"

Care to share?

We all may learn something.

"Money, Sex, or Love - What matters more to you?"

- Is this like a Rock, Paper, Scissors thing?

Maybe people prioritise different things at during times of their lives?

Hi Foxy,

"Marrying someone from a different culture or race used
to be frowned upon."

When I first met my future wife, shortly after one of her brothers passed away and she asked; "I have to fly home and attend my brothers tangi (mourning ceremony followed by burial), do you want to come?" Me being me immediately agreed. The marae was about 30 minutes out of the nearest small town, along gravel roads, and we arrived about 2am in pouring rain, having driven 4 hours in a convoy of vehicles from Auckland, with about 20 people on board. Not knowing the protocols at the time, I was glad for the assistance of the wife's younger brother, as we were to be powhihi'd (welcoming ceremony) by the tangata (a woman). The young bro said; Paul, us men enter behind the women, you don't need to hongi the body if you don't want to, I thought at the time "that's good", kissed or hongi a few dead people since, and he went on to explain all the protocols inside, I will speak in Maori about my brother and I will introduce you then, if you hear the words "haere mai" after I say your name then you know tyour're welcome here. Then we hongi (touch noses, don't close your eyes) the men, kiss the women on the cheeks and touch the children on the head. Then we'll all go to the wharekai (dinning room for supper, most important) and then we'll be woken at 6am for wash, breakfast and church. I said; "when do we sleep" bro; "We don't'! All in all, that first tangi was a real experience for me, one pakeha 500 Maori, I think I was in the minority.

cont

cont

BTW, If I want to speak in English in the wharenui (meeting house) I first must ask the kaumatua (senior man/men) sitting seated at the entrance for permission to do so. They always give permission, just part of the protocol. When speaking personally to others in the whaenui, most speak in English. Only once have I been given the "talking stick", you have no option you have to speak on something, any subject and then sing a waiata (song), I spoke about Australia, the nephew saved the day for me, when I finished speaking he jumped up with the guitar; "Come on Uncle, 'Waltzing Matilda'..."

http://teara.govt.nz/en/te-kawa-o-te-marae/page-2#:~:text=The%20p%C5%8Dwhiri%20(or%20p%C5%8Dhiri)%20is,welcome%20visitors

Dear Paul,

What an incredible experience your life has been.
Thank you for sharing. It actually brought tears to
my eyes. I could visualize it all. Like watching a film.
It brought back memories of the funeral of my daughter-in-law
father's funeral. He was Russian Christian Orthodox. Same
as my gran. It also had its rituals including the lining up
to kiss the body in the open casket.

Again Thank You for sharing.
Your marriage sounds remarkable.

Hi Armchair Critic,

We do go through different phases in our lives - that's true.
It's rare to have all three - money, sex, and love, all at
the same time. Not many have that. It's a question of priorities,
isn't it? What's more important to you. As I said - not even
Rupert Murdoch always gets it all. My husband and I started
off as most couples do - with not much money. But we both
worked and it was never a problem. As for love, well we
always had that.

Hi Foxy,

That fist encounter with Maori custom was certainly an experience, sleeping on mattresses on the floor in a room with a couple of 100 others.That first tangi was something, middle of July up in the hills, not only was it raining, but sleet as well, was it cold. 6am in the dark woken by the "Sargent Major" as I called my later good friend Shirl (now deceased, not sure of her Maori name, all the older ones have two names, my wife does, one given by the Pakeha when starting school, and their traditional Maori name from their parents) as is the wife's younger brother passed on, many have gone, Maori like Aboriginals tend to die younger than us, men mostly in their 60's go first. Like here social disease brought on by lifestyle. Many smoke (roll their own) eat excessive amounts of fat, and some drink heavily, I estimate 5%, although drinking is totally banned at most marae, its cordial, tea, coffee or Milo.

BTW The showers in the ablution block, the hot water was on the blink, that's another story, all I can say is some blokes are tough!

Dear Paul,

You've really made my day by sharing all this.
It just goes to show what we can learn about
other cultures. With you on this forum, we continue
to learn. Thank You.

Hi Again Foxy,

The wife as the sister of the deceased was expected to stay on the marae for all three days, not leave, protocol as it is. BUT, cold water in zero degree temps supersedes protocol, into a car and off to wife's friends down in the village, about 1/2 hour away, they had a warm shower for us to use, sure beats protocol. Until they built a new ablution block with lots of hot water, we would always take off for a hot shower at K and I's place, along with a catch up.

Dear Paul,

Reading your experiences is making me miss my brothers
and their families so much. But they live so far away.
One's in Byron Bay, the other in Port Macquarie. We
speak on the phone regularly but it would be nice to
actually spend time with them.

I miss my mum. I wish she was still here with us.
I talk to her every day. Still, I've got to say that
talking and sharing with you guys helps me. Takes my
mind off things. At present I'm not the best. My heart's
playing up. And it's not a good feeling. The forum is a
good diversion for me.

Sex is a very fleeting thing, as is love for many. That first flush of love is fleeting, & only lasts if it matures into something more meaningful, which it rarely does if the divorce rate is considered.

Money is only of use to me for what it can buy. I can feel somewhat jealous of those for whom the accumulation of money is an end in itself. Their pleasure brings security, & perhaps even happiness, I wouldn't know.

For me money is only of use in funding experiences. It takes a reasonable amount of money to fund a good car that can give the experience of driving across the top of Mount Panorama at 100MPH+. It is truly incredible. I can still feel the car moving under me now 55 years later if I close my eyes & let it come come flooding back.

The same goes for surfing a yacht down a big ocean swell. A great feeling again, & a joy to remember if it is a good yacht. Then there is the memory of a little twinge of fear if it is a bad handling yacht, as was one I did one Hobart race in.

Continued

Continued.

Then there is the feeling of partnership with a good horse. A little stallion I acquired by accident as & nine month old colt, by 6 years old had become a great show jumper happy to jump anything I pointed him at, trusting I would never ask more than he could handle. I gave him to my daughter 11 at the time, & they made a brilliant pair.

A Japanese exchanger student we had wanted to ride a horse, so we put her on him as our nicest horse. She & he had no idea of what they were doing until I tweaked, & told her to look where she wanted to go. This was how we rode him, the slight shift of body weight of turning our head told him what was wanted. It worked beautifully, & for the next week we had trouble getting her off him. It was an experience few girls from Tokyo will ever get, & she didn't want it to stop.

That is about all money is of much use for to me.

Dear Hasbeen,

You have chosen the name, Hasbeen, but you still are. You are a skilled observer.

As far as money goes one can think of the last two verses of Miniver Cheevy:

Miniver scorned the gold he sought,
But sore annoyed was he without it;
Miniver thought, and thought, and thought,
And thought about it.

Miniver Cheevy, born too late,
Scratched his head and kept on thinking;
Miniver coughed, and called it fate,
And kept on drinking.

My father bemoaned the fact that he was a poor man. I asked him how much money would be enough and never got an answer.

I appreciate the sharing of all your experiences.
Money meant a great deal to my parents for what it
could buy. Education for their children was on top of the
list. My father stressed the importance of education. He
saw that material things could disappear overnight but what
was in your head nobody could take away. So the emphasis in
our home was on reading and learning and dad worked hard to
be able to give us that. Through education we managed to
achieve other things.

Dear David,

Your life story is incredible. Thank you for sharing
a part of it with me.

It looks like this discussion has now run its course.
I'd like to thank all who were willing to share their
stories. I look forward to our next discussion.

Enjoy your week-end.

Posted by david f, Wednesday, 1 March 2023 10:26:41 PM

Good arguments are ad rem - to the thing. Bad arguments are ad hominem - to the man or person.

Answer- Hebrew Communist Saul Alinsky in the book "Rules For Radicals" encouraged the ridiculing of the enemy- because it's effective- until we can create an "ad rem" orthodox society. Aristotle and others believe in society ordered for virtue. It appears David F also sees it's value- kudos.

Sex has destroyed love & money has destroyed all three !
Straight forward mentality people still have those values however, since common sense & decency were outlawed the straight thinkers are thinning out to a catastrophic level.

Survival is our strongest instinct.
So sex is the most important of the three.
We need it for populations to grow and continue.
Followed probably by love, then money if it truly represents work done.