An increase in violence and crime in Alice Springs is being blamed on the NT government, and the way in which it ended the 15-year-old alcohol bans introduced as part of the intervention measures of the Howard government.

Anthony Albanese flew to The Alice yesterday in an attempt to "find a solution" to what is a systemic problem, not caused by alcohol and drugs, but exacerbated by their use. Albanese's whistle stop short term solution to a deep seated problem was the reintroduction of some alcohol sales restrictions. The heavy handed solution called for by Peter Dutton, is the old conservative catch cry of; "Send in the army".

Dear Paul,

Obviously what they've tried to dat is not working.
It sound like the kids don't have any role models.
They don't have enough activities to keep them busy,
especially at night. Someone needs to step in. What
sort of facilities are there for young people in Alice?
Are there sporting facilities, and clubs? Are the
kids kept busy? Or is a swimming pool all they've got?

Where are their grand-parents? Why aren't families
taking responsibilities for their children? Why can't
the communities work together with teachers, school
principals, educators?

Why aren't the kids given goals to aim for? Why aren't
they being taught any skills? Just letting them roam the
streets at night is not good enough. Neither is throwing
them in jail and why are they being sold alcohol?

A short whistle-stop by the PM is not going to solve
much. More needs to be done. Community consultation needs
to be done in how to solve these problems that appear to be
on-going. I'm sure that Alice is not the only place where
these problems exist.

How about some of our note-worthy Indigenous leaders
also taking a trip up to Alice to help solve this
problem. The kids should be the primary concern of
everybody. They are the future. And if you are an
Indigenous community leader - what are you doing to help?
Apart from appearing on TV and in the media? Roll your
sleeves up and go to Alice. Do something concrete to help
apart from appearing for photo ops and on Sky News.

More and more findings (the latest from Canada) show that there is 'no safe level of alcohol' - for anyone, not just aboriginals in Alice Springs, where alcohol is definitely the problem for them. They even attacked the home of one of their supporters yesterday.

White people who think that they have their alcohol use under control are kidding themselves. Alcohol is THE most dangerous drug because it is acceptable to society, about 75% of whom are regularly sucking on the stuff. Nothing to do with the myth about 'abos not being able to hold their grog' as many boozy racists say. Nothing to do with race.

Big export dollars, too. In Afghanistan, they napalmed the poppy crops. The day might come when something similar will need to be done to wine grapes (not the table ones I hope).

Actually, there is said to be some decline in the use of the toxic-to-the-human-body drug, alcohol: especially among the young.

If a young person asked me for advice on alcohol, I would tell them it would not be wise to start; and you might not find out unless you have to stop - and then you will find what a grip it gets on you and, even if you never touch another drop as long as you live, it will still be there taunting you. Alcohol use is just dangerous self-medicating, no matter what drinkers who claim that the could 'give it up anytime', or the pushers of the stuff tell you.

WTF?

ttbn states: "Actually, there is said to be some decline in the use of the toxic-to-the-human-body drug, alcohol: especially among the young."

I agree, this certainly seems to be the case and hopefully they will take notice of these findings that are becoming more frequent.

I doubt the boomer and older generation will take notice though and will push the 'give it up anytime' line.

One wonders what 40, 50 and 60 plus years of drinking has done to their brains and general health.
It's probably costing us net tax payers a fortune.

It may help to explain why so many older folk find it hard to accept new findings in other areas as well.

Perhaps all that booze was caused such a decline in mental capacity that we should restrict their voting.

I do not know what the solutions to the problems in Alice Springs are but I hope there are some.

All these problems in the NT.

Perhaps the Feds should get involved....they could call it an intervention...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Territory_National_Emergency_Response

The heavy handed solution called for by Peter Dutton
Paul1405,
The only time the situation would need 'heavy-handedness' is if the criminally orientated disregarded behaving in an acceptable manner !
What does it matter which uniform the Law wears ? Only the stroppy object to good behaviour.
I have yet to see or hear of people going about in a socially acceptable & unprovocative manner catching the eye of the uniformed !
It's only because of academically brainwashed idealists that expecting social discipline is seen as a right ! Decent people see discipline as a individual responsibility & support the call for enforcing it on those too stupid, arrogant, selfish & racist !

Today is "Invasion Day", a day for all Australians to give thought to the injustices of the past that has led to the situation where 235 years on many First Australians find themselves living a miserable third world existence in what is one of the worlds richest countries. Alice Springs is a manifestation of that disadvantage.

Hi Foxy,

Thanks for all your questions in response, its those questions and others that need to be answered not only by our political leadership, but by the Australian population as a whole. Reading recently I now realise its not the European settler population that can solve these issues for Aboriginal people, but Aboriginal people themselves. I think The Voice will be a 'watershed moment' for Australia, when we finally move away from the well intended, but misguided patronising of Aboriginal people. I'm not confident of success, the forces of opposition are growing and success is certainly not assured.

Today 10am Queens Square Brisbane 30,000 expected to protest 'Invasion Day'.

Alcohol might have had something to do with the ludicrous, worst yet, choosing of Australian of the Year. Usually a ridiculous choice of someone few people have ever heard of, this one takes the cake. Just another insult to Australia and Australia Day.

many First Australians find themselves living a miserable third world existence
Paul1405,
Deliberate falsification of reality !

Deliberate falsification of reality !

Perhaps the following is a more to the point assessment of Paul1405's agitating words.

Deliberate misrepresentation to invoke opposition to harmony for the common good !

Dear Paul,

That's why The Voice to Parliament is so important.
The Aboriginal communities need to accept responsibility
for the problems in their own communities - and they need
to talk to the government about policies and programs that
affect their communities so badly. Of course alcohol is
a big problem and action needs to be taken with the
co-operation of community leadership.

This problem has been going on for quite some time.
It won't be solved over night. But community consultation
is a must and needs to be done. The Voice must go ahead
for everybody's sake. We can't just keep on doing what's
been done to date.

The Ockernese government was embarrassed into restoring some version of the alcohol ban it removed, against the "voice" of indigenous leaders.

The current government does not get "embarrassed,"
on the contrary. It listens and then acts on the
advice it thinks appropriate. And it certainly as
we know believes in getting the Indigenous communities
involved. Which is what The Voice is all about - and why
the current government is pushing for it.

Self determination makes sense. It's Peter Dutton who
unfortunately is arguing against The Voice at every turn.

The Aboriginal communities need to accept responsibility
for the problems in their own communities
Foxy,
If that what the VOICE were intended for then all would be good.

San Francisco turned into Alice Springs when the uneducated elite executive of the town chose to release all non-violent criminals from their prisons.
As it turned out, those “chosen” victims of parental crimes from their childhood, were the majority of the drug runners of town the police had spent vast amounts of energy locking up in the first place.

Just one of the consequences of that foolish move on behalf of the non-street wise rulers of town, was that drug crimes increased to such an extent that some down town areas were cordoned off as uncontrollable. Local businesses were so impacted from the new crime wave, and out of frustration, refused to pay local taxes, on demand of the implementation of law and order to bring about a challenge to anarchy. Alice Springs in a nut shell!

We are talking about a town in a TERRITORY, not a state, and the Federal Government should be taking over this problem AS REQUESTED. But, Ockernese sits on his hands. Useless!

Ockernese has his own extreme agenda. Setting out to crush Australia’s economy with his climate fantasy, to impoverish us with energy madness, and to poison our Constitution and society with embedded, institutional racism.

He has been described as "endlessly disappointing". "Serially disappointing", in fact. The same could have been said about Scott
Morrison. Australians have had jolly bad luck with Prime Ministers since John Howard. But this latest train wreck and his party was the first choice of less than a third (32.6%) of voters.

While talking about alcohol from an aboriginal point of view, whitey needs to watch it, too.

In 2021, an international survey found Australians were the heaviest drinkers in the world, getting drunk about 27 times a year. That's almost double the global average.

Alcohol use is something of an obsession in Australia; there's a lot of pressure to drink, and the alcohol industry is using every single opportunity that it has to promote its products.

We can't see tobacco advertising, but TV commercials for just about everything - not just the grog itself - have people slugging back the stuff in all sorts of locations and activities.

Ttbn.

Holding up your version of a poster-boy politician, as comparative to another, is disingenuous in the extreme!

The problem with Alice Springs is really not vastly different to most other areas of this Country.

The problem is youth crime and how to deal with it!

The current San Francisco model is an abismal failure!

My feet on the ground and right now, shows to me, there is no consequence outside of an inconvenient court appearance to youth crime.

The situation appears more and more to indicate, the consequences of crime to those under eighteen, doesn’t begin in earnest until a murder ( usually by stabbing), is committed.

In the last ten years, I’ve been threatened with a drawn knife twice, and set upon by a gang of underage youths once, which I managed to dissuade by personal means.

One youth alone I deal with, was on his tenth bond without consequence, for car theft, more than one high speed Police persuit resulting in a major crash, unlicensed.
One home invasion with weapons, and an outcome of GBH, resulting in a suspended sentence.

That is a crime which Carrie’s 21 years behind bars. ( attempted murder carries a fourteen year sentence). Scott free!

Can you now see the problem.

Conflating the issue of applicability to Aboriginals alone, is going in the wrong direction with crime and it’s impact on a peaceful society.

I listened to a speaker discussing indigenous culture before 1788, suggesting an absence of conflict within and between tribes, claiming a sense of common purpose in tribes, and an absence of things like greed and a desire for individuality. All the problems started after colonisation. It sounded like something Pol Pot dreamed of.

If that is the mindset of the Voice it wont solve anything. We are human beings ffs, on the same evolutionary branch as horrible violent monkeys, and with the potential to be far more horrible and violent.

Australians were the heaviest drinkers in the world
ttbn,
Sadly, they also topped the list in drug abuse. That's why the gene pool needs filtering asap !
The most effective positive filter is National Service.

Fester

Whoever that speaker was knows nothing. Aboriginal culture was filled with wars between tribes, domestic abuse, infanticide, even cannibalism according to some reports. A very harsh, cruel existence, particularly for women and children. People talk about patriarchy these days, and a raw deal for women. They are joking!

Now. That is in the past - or maybe not in remote areas - as most descendants of that culture are as good, or bad, as the rest of us. We whites are better now than we were a couple of centuries ago.

But when some idiots prattle on about how idyllic aboriginal life was prior to British, but insist on harping about settler cruelties, they cannot be allowed to get away with such ignorant, bigoted and anti-white racist rubbish; especially when the pricks are usually white themselves.

Hi ttbn,

It isn't worth getting angry about, although I did find it all the more amusing as the speaker was a theologian. Nothing unusual about it in the world, and it can appeal to a person's capability and sense of purpose, but in the context used by the speaker I thought it reminiscent of the them and us exclusivity of nationalism.

Fester

A theologian, eh. Not surprising, as much of the nonconformist church has gone left and political to try to be relevant.

A bit like the Liberal Party going left in an attempt to get votes from people who wouldn't vote for them in a brainstorm.

ttbn,

I think we are more protected from extremes in a democracy. Silly ideas have their time in the sun, and there are always a few on the go. I hope the conservatives get emboldened by the myriad of woke failures.

Fester

I was about to say 'what conservatives'?. But they are still around if you look in the right places - they are just not in Parliament, or not significant enough to make any difference. We have a small 'l' liberal party, a Labor socialist party, and an extreme left Green party. Until we have a huge clean out, and a real conservative party, with a Hawke-style Labor party, the country will continue going down.

ttbn

Pretend socialists in Australia fortunately. The same mindset, but they don't have the malevolent power here that they do in places like Venezuela. If there is one thing bullies hate it is a secret ballot.

"Just sign here and I will take care of all the rest."

Bernie Madoff

If this were "Colonists' children [to use the idiom] they would be removed from the family and placed into foster care. Just imagine a new generation of stolen children. They could be placed into homes of civilized aboriginals, not the homes of radicals.

First up The Voice?? NO NO NO
The new grog laws will do little if anything to stop the current grog problems in town. Anyone who has lived in the NT for any time will be aware of this with the various rules and regulations brought in over the last few years, mainly out of Darwin, not politically acceptable to bring in too many rules in Darwin.
The kids doing the massive amounts of straight vandalism around town were not wanted from conception and are not wanted now. It is a game of who can do the most outrageous damage, get caught who cares, get away with it and go again next day. It is all about getting the "kids money", more kids = more money. It is no fun now living behind barb wire, alarms, cameras, lights, keeping out of the CBD unless necessary, after having the car walked over, being rocked at stop lights, regularly called various choice names, stay home after dark is the safe way to go. Leave town is the next option which is not good.

"But they (conservatives) are still around if you look in the right places - they are just not in Parliament,".....sewers, gutters, septic tanks, Archy Pell's coffin, but just not parliament, because no one voted for them, except ttbn.

Well I guess Paul would know if there are conservatives in the sewers & gutters. After all they are his natural habitat.

Hi Hassie,

Not nice!

Thanks Hassy,

BTW, how ya going with that nuclear annihilation of 200 million men, women and children in Pakistan, you once called for on the forum? Why Pakistan? That's right they're Muslims, not that you would hate Muslims or anything like that. Maybe you've put it on the back burner, whose your target these days? Come on old chap, gives it another plug for nuclear annihilation! I expect no reply.

Not nice.

I guess you are right for once Paul. We should clean up Alice Springs & Darwin before we go off shore.

Hassy, why am I right, your the one in favour of 'nuclear annihilation', you said so yourself. As for "clean up" does that involve nuclear, or do you suggest the use of conventional bombs and guns? Your the military man having flown your Sopwith Camel in every war since the Battle of Hastings in 1066. I can just picture you up there in a dog fight with the Red Barron, Snoopy and you verses the Red Baron, yep they were the good old days! Agree?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtJ1Gnh9wPU

Listening to Penny Perkins, the daughter of Charles Perkins, and an aboriginal male running programs for aboriginal men in The Alice, it is obvious they believe the Voice will solve their problems. Hello! It is their expectations that crime will stop when an elite few are given Voice in Canberra. Again, the answers will come from Canberra.

They believe the Government will solve their family problems. It is obvious they have no idea of responsibility for how to lead others to live civilly. The only leadership some display currently is to declare war on the invaders. They are still primitive warriors and expect others will solve their family problems, like violence and rape.

The things that create great families must be taught to these primitive tribal minds by the Invaders on how-to live in society and raise responsible children. No! They want WAR!