For those who are following the proceedings of the Royal Commission that has been a lot of testimony which has beggared belief. The incredible lack of empathy from the politicians who push the scheme into implementation and the senior public servants who enabled it is deeply concerning.

Thankfully the head of the commission is a no nonsense woman who is being very pointed in her questions and has elicited some damning admissions.

However testimony from a widowed disability worker Sandra Bevan yesterday was very telling.

http://twitter.com/strangerous10/status/1616191630364803073?s=20&t=dXzQltJWBmcH-3NGd_RTMQ

It has left me very angry and with a firm conviction those responsible should be removed from positions of power over the community. Hopefully the Liberal ministers involved leave parliament before the Coalition are let anywhere near the levers of power.

It might be heart-RENDING to some people.

It is heart-rendering - to most people - that's true.
But of course - it goes on the assumption that one
must have a heart for it to be so.
As we can see from this forum - there's many here who are robots
and have no heart -
Hence the robodebt scheme suited them to a tee.

____________________________________________________________________

Dear Steele,

We were told that former Liberal government ministers -
Scott Morrison, Marisa Payne, Christian Porter, Alan Tudge,
Stuart Robert, were all involved in the drafting,
implementation, and eventual closure of the scheme from 2015
to 2019.

The Royal Commission is doing a thorough investigation of these
matters and is due to publish its final report in April 2023.
Thus far as you pointed out - the testimonies of so many people
have been very distressing. So many lives ruined. Those
responsible must be held to account.

But whether they will be is another matter. Politicians are very
good at doing their Houdini acts - I guess we shall have to wait
and see how much power the Royal Commission actually has.

What I find fascinating here is that those of a certain leaning are always the ones so outraged at the failures of government.

Their entire political philosophy is that more government is the solution to all problems, real or imagined. But when shown that government screws up, they become outraged at the evidence.

But we all know that 'screwed up' is the default position for government and it ought to be expected that whatever programmes or initiatives they implement will be mucked up.

Indeed if we ever find a government programme or department that isn't a disaster we should hold a Royal Commission into it to find out what went right.

The whole Robodebt programme is an admission that the welfare systems failed by overpaying some people. So to fix a failed system, they introduce an new (inevitably) failed system . And now we have an enquiry to work out what systems we should implement to fix the failed system that was implemented to fix a failed system.

Behold, government in the 21st century.

The people of Australia held their own Royal Commission
at the last federal election at the ballot box. And we now
have a government that is calling for transparency and
accountability - which the former government fought tooth and
nail. Predictably the ones criticizing that are the ones who
supported the former government's decision previously. And
now are attempting to excuse and assign blame elsewhere.

Typical outmoded tactics that no longer work. Will they learn
anything for the future? - from what we can see - not a chance!

Was Gerry Harvey sent a Robodebt letter to recover the $12 million he pocketed from the taxpayer, no way Jose', thanks to all that yummy money from his mates in government ScumO' and Friedbrain. Now Australia has a trillion dollar of Liberal Party debt, and nothing to show for it except years of economic pain.

Dear mhaze,

Well that is bloody pathetic as usual.

This wasn't a cock up at all. It was a punitive act by an uncaring political party from your side of politics.

There were people in the public service who tried to take a stand but they were shifted sideways.

http://twitter.com/strangerous10/status/1615977367746543617?s=20&t=SFmVnp0NsgoyiOodtXl_fg

It is the politicisation of the public service which has allowed this to happen. Once again it is the destructive nature of your side of politics who scream for "smaller government' which has so eroded the public service and the once frank and fearless advice they delivered.

The very fact you want to shift the blame on to them rather than your side of politics is telling.

What is also telling is your flippancy about what this poor woman had to go through.

Your side of politics raise the 4 deaths said to have been caused by the so called pink batts scheme. The toll of Robodebt is thought to be in their thousands.

Zip from you lot though.

Disgraceful.

'Robodebt' was not a cock-up, it was a deliberate political act by philosophically driven conservative politicians, administered by a politicised public service to extract revenge on the "low lives of society in the social order", for their well known propensity to lie, cheat and steal from the "good folk of society"....The 'Dole Bludger Syndrome' perpetuated by the likes of Morrison and other conservatives. Starting from the position of, "guilty as charged", it was a natural progression to impose sentence, in this case an unjust and undeserved debt.

Talking to some in a precarious position to begin with, I can understand how something like 'Robodebt' would push them over the edge. I'm sure some on this Forum have no idea of the hardship and trauma some people are suffering in their lives.

You keep on going on about 'my side' of politics. I don't know how many times I need to say it but the previous government wasn't 'my side'. Indeed I haven't voted Liberal now for a decade.

'My side' of politics wouldn't have implemented the robodebt scheme because 'my side' is inherently distrustful of the ability of government to achieve anything of any real complexity. 'My side' of politics, whatismore, would ensure that government was held responsible for the cock-ups, and not just the politicians but public servants who designed and implemented these policies.

You can take it to the bank that no one is going to pay a price for this in the same way as no one paid a price for the Pink Batts screw-up. If this thing (Robodebt) had been done by a private company, we wouldn't be holding toothless inquiries into what had happened, we'd be building gallows and SR's and Paul's of this world would be cheering it on. Consequently, you would not find private industry making these types of screw-ups.

So, no, 'my side' pf politics didn't do this. The politics of ever bigger government as espoused by the Lib/Lab duopoly did this, and they'll do it again because, for them, the answer to every problem is government.

Governments screw-up and the bigger the government the bigger the screw-ups and the more they will be hidden - eg the vaccines. Pink batts, robodebt, the never-ending submarine sagas, census screw-ups, close-the-gap failures, recent revelations about declining education outcomes....the default government position is failure.

The cause of the screw-ups is big government and the solution is smaller government. That is 'my side' of politics and no major party in Australia currently represents that 'side'.

Still, I wonder why we are spending all this money on a RC when SR/Paul seemed to have already worked out what the cause of the problem was = people they don't like.

mhaze

Who would 'side' with any of the drips in Canberra these days? They are as much use as the narcissists and energy vampires here who are just ideologues, mistaking their ideology for reality. They see what they want to see, and find what they want to find. And, how can you possibly argue with someone who comes up with 'heart rendering' instead of 'heart rending'.

What I find fascinating is that the word "woke" has become a substitute for incisive commentary for the far-right.

Even respected journos luxuriating at that end of the spectrum lazily spatter their pages with woke this, woke that.

The only disappointment is that their previously preferred trope of "virtue signalling" seems to have been usurped by "woke".

Fun times!

Dear Poirot - Welcome back!

Good to see you posting again!

Hiya Foxy,

I seem to be outa practice.

I posted a comment to ttbn's "wokeness" comment in the wrong thread.

Sorry about that, folks.

mhaze,
As an engineer I see it a bit differently. Do you know what "failsafe" means?

Contrary to popular belief, it doesn't mean failures will never occur; it means that if and when failures do occur it's still safe.

We can assume failures will occur, but the issue is what happens when they do.
Fail to danger situations (aka wrong side failures) must always be avoided.

Centrelink was having right side failures: a relatively small amount of money was being wasted, but our most vulnerable were still getting paid. A data matching system was being developed to reduce the instances of failure. But Robodebt misused data matching and was deliberately set to fail to danger. That's something that should never even have been considered, let alone implemented.

So this is not just "an enquiry to work out what systems we should implement to fix the failed system that was implemented to fix a failed system". We need to find out who thought it was acceptable to introduce wrong side failures to fix right side failures, and why. And we need to rid the Public Service of the incompetent sycophants who did nothing to stop it, and to introduce procedures to ensure all Public Servants are mindful of their duty to point out problems before they inevitably result in real damage!

And of course more government isn't the solution to all problems. But government is best placed to solve many problems, and they certainly won't be solved by reducing the government's capability.

Poirot,

I agree the word is rather imprecise, but when you writing a short paragraph or two (350 words) short-cuts are inevitable. Woke isn't quite the same as virtue-signalling but close. The woke community are those who accept reflexively the current 'progressive' tropes. We could try to define each subset of the group each time we post. but how tedious would that be.

Aidan,

I come at this from a computer programming perspective and ultimately this was a failure of computer systems. From my angle, it was an unforgivable error borne of a failure to adequately test. I've been involved in many a project where data is utilised in revolutionary ways, such a Robodebt tried to do with a range of financial data. But in private industry where business reputation is on the line, not to mention that of the programmers themselves, the by-word is testing.

It is astonishing that this thing wasn't tested up-hill and down-dale long before any letters went out to the public. Its even more astonishing that the early batches of those letters weren't thoroughly vetted as a form of sample-testing to ensure the system was operating as hoped. The notion of just sending out the letters hoping to fix it later is something only an entity with no concern for customers, reputation or profit would do.

"they certainly won't be solved by reducing the government's capability". Well they haven't been solved by increasing the government's capability.

Dear mhaze,

Your side of politics, whatever stipe you claim for yourself, want smaller government and by extension less government services as you have clearly stated.

The Coalition went ahead despite firm legal advice that the scheme was likely illegal. Are you really postulating that the public service would have done this without instruction from one of the worst governments in recent memory.

Again, your side of politics has been perpetually scathing of public servants as you are here. This denigration has left us with an overly compliant body, one that is able to be ramrodded by the likes of Morrison.

Firmly at your feet old boy.

mhaze,

This royal commission is not charged with determining the legality or otherwise of 'Robodebt', the Federal Court has declared it illegal by approving a $1.8 billion settlement between your Tory government and their victims. Albanese in announcing the RC said it would cover the establishment of the system (Robodebt), who was responsible for it, why the former government considered it necessary, its impact on victims, the financial cost to government, and how to ensure it can never happen again.

As for not voting Tory, I'm sure at the end of the night your vote is smack bang in the middle of the Tory pile, along with all the other One Nation votes in your electorate, defiantly as Steele said; "your side of politics".

So many lives ruined. Those responsible must be held to account.
Foxy,
Yes !
The bureaudroids who didn't do their job as per usual.

Indy,

When the real good folk come to power, a new scheme of debt recovery will be introduced, it will be called 'ROBOPENSION'. A 'Form Letter' will be computer generated and sent to all aged welfare recipients. I have designed the letter personally. It's as follows;

Dear Mr XXXXXXXX

Greetings and salutations from The Department of Pensioner Debt Recovery.

How is your (Lumbago, arthritis, dementia, incontinence) the computer will randomly choose and insert one, I think that line will give the letter that caring personal touch from the department, showing empathy for the intended victim.

Then we get straight to the nitty-gritty.

PAY UP BUDDY NOW! THE RIP OFF'S OVER! (I think that's clear enough)

Cough up $XXXXXX.XX (The computer will randomly insert a six figure amount) within 24 hours otherwise you will be visited by our debt recovery officer, 'ROBOCOP' and he ain't a nice fella! (I think that's to the point, but without any possibility of instilling any fear into the intended victim.)

If you have any concerns with this debt, don't bother replying, we've got ya dead to rights BUDDY THE JIG IS UP!

Signed.
Compurter G48N10

P/S Have a nice day. from the friendly computer folk at Pensioner Debt Recovery.

I think my letter is possibly stern enough, but still compassionate.

All this pretend boo hoo about 'poor, hard-done-by "victims"' is just an excuse to rubbish a particular group of politicians, who have had done to them all that can be done to them by the electorate. It's finished. Get over it. Robodebt was hardly a major incident, compared the with sky-rocketing cost of living and failing economy we have now, with much worse to come.

ttbn,

Considering Robodebt was a diabolical Liberal Government-initiated extortionate racket targeting the most vulnerable in our communities, it was quite a big deal.

Who would defend Morrison (who is now going down in history as the worst PM of the worst government) and his cronies for instituting such a transparently dishonest and illegal system of debt collection?

Noting it came in under Turnbull, who appears to be busily running around attempting to rehabilitate his legacy of going along with everything the hard-right wanted.

Hi Poirot, welcome back to the Forum,

How many committed suicide, a couple of dozen probably, of more importance to ttbn and his ilk is the escalating price of baked beans in the supermarket, and for some the price of a schooner down at 'God's Waiting Room'.

I didn't know it at the time, but was able to get a $3,000 debt wiped by 'Citrelink' for one person. I used the line; "you are averaging his income over the period, you should be looking at it each fortnight". Got a sympathetic officer at 'Centrelink' and eventually the debt was wiped. Not so successful with another chap and a $900 debt, a different officer, negotiated a $50/fortnight repayment, the $900 was just as sus as the $3,000 but different office, different interpretation, and a less caring attitude. I had a bit to do with 'Centrelink' working in Sydney, mostly helping people apply for benefits,and so much depends on the particular officer and their supervisor, sorry team manager, you deal with. Some can be really helpful, others don't give a sh!t, but you have to Try To Be Nice (ttbn for short) to them all. I recall a nice old bloke name Phil, went years without applying for the 'Aged Pension', he just didn't bother, lived off handouts, and cans he collected, called a "meat pie" a "baked dinner", died in his 70's.

There are lots of Centrelink cheats, and it's a fair bet that many were caught in the Robodebt action. The pretend oh-so-concerned Left are not interested in that, though.

The action was not the Grand Inquisition, and it gave the usual sorts something to whinge about.

Whingeing is a hobby for these people, who include those who whinge about anyone even receiving welfare or the OAP, but whinge when the government polices the system. They whinge; not so much, if at all, about the current economic situation brought about by the current government.

Robodebt was specifically designed to scoop-up anybody who happened to be working and reporting their income.

It was the "averaging" aspect - the deliberate system designed to apply a consistent earning capacity that was the problem.

Deliberate and illegal - who would defend such a thing?

I see you are now back to the old trope of blaming the new government for the present economic squeeze.

When I was here in days of yore - it was the "debt and deficit disaster" post GFC which left us with a deficit of around $280 billion.

The Libs got in, promptly cut everything to the bone, and doubled it to just under $600 billion ... before Covid!

Hi Paul,

Great to see you are still here!

I would like to see elaborated the number of people who are said to have committed suicide over money. Only the very sick or insane take their lives. Suicide is not an idea that comes readily to most people. When it is easily possible to show that you are not a crook, it is totally unbelievable that normal people would kill themselves over a mere 'please explain' request. Even the ABC said that some people "died" following Robodebt. Nothing about suicide.

And, $750,000 was recovered from almost 400,000 people who were apparently rorting the system or might have made a mistake in their reporting to Centrelink. Well worth the effort, as well as giving the politically and ideological inspired something to whinge about, and a few drama queens the opportunity to play the victim card.

Indeed, ttbn ... I'm sure you'd be thrilled to bits to be extorted by the government.

Perhaps they'll do it again when the next win government. Although, I suspect the new echelon of Conservative pollies would balk at such a low act.

I was thinking it was unbelievable arrogance from SR to assume he knows more about my political leanings than I do, but then realised it was entirely believable (given its SR) ignorance rather than arrogance.

SR, it seems, has fallen for the line that the current Liberal/National parties are parties of small government. Now its true that they make this claim and its true that their opponents make this claim of them, so its hardly surprising that those who prefer the easy path of believing the rhetoric against checking the data have fallen for it. SR falls for most things like this.

But checking the data shows that the current major conservative parties are no more the party of small government than their opponents. Consequently anyone who believes in small government doesn't find a home in the Liberals.

This will go over SR's head because for many this is a binary issue. For some, they see two parties and you have to pick one and then defend it to the end - ALP uber alles. It is beyond their level of understanding to reject both major parties while hoping that circumstances will see a revival of a truly small government supporting right-wing party.

As to the public service, I am no more scathing of them than is due. But the problems aren't with the public servants themselves but with the system they are required to navigate. Located in Canberra, far removed from the public they are supposed to service, their feedback mechanisms dissolve.

SR finds it unlikely that the public service would implement this scheme except only under the enforced control of people he hates. I find it unlikely that the politicians would have sanctioned the scheme had they been told it would result in thousands receiving demand letters for debts Centrelink couldn't substantiate.

It was a failure all around. But failure all around is the default position for big government.

Paul admonished me with "mhaze, This royal commission is not charged with determining the legality". Given that I'd said nothing about the legality of the scheme it seems a strange assertion. But I guess, if you've got nothing useful to say, saying something fatuous is inevitable.

Paul also whines "I'm sure at the end of the night your vote is smack bang in the middle of the Tory pile, along with all the other One Nation votes in your electorate".

1. I've never voted for Pauline. Her economics are far to socialist - more to Paul's liking I'd opine.
2. Not all One Nation votes go back to the Libs. Paul understands preferential voting the same way my budgie understands General Relativity.

I've written previously here that its important that disaffected Liberal supporters don't allow their preference to eventually go back to the Libs. Paul won't understand that.

I'm surprised you suggest SR thinks mhaze. I thought you realised that he consults the Labor Hymn book, then quotes it word & verse in every post.

I'm also surprised you believe we can avoid our votes for the house going through to one of the majors, we can't. It is good that we can keep any of the majors & greens out of our senate vote, but with the house one of them will get it no matter what we do, unless we go with Diver.

Disillusioned Liberal voters did not give their second preferences back to the Liberals. Like most voters, Labor got their preferences. With only about a third of first preferences, that was the only thing that got Labor over the line.

By a majority!

ttbn, Perhaps if Morrison had been given a bit longer, he could have signed himself up as minister for "everything".

Gee, we sure missed out there!

Can I enquire, as to whether there was a thread here, examining his deceptive conduct and his extended waltz with the Governor General which, I believe, was a whirlwind romance ending with Scotty showered with ministries.

It's all quite boring now ...

mhaze,

I would know a bit more about the electoral process that you old chap, having worked on many an election campaign, been present during vote counting as a scrutineer many times over the past 40 years or so. Of course not all voters follow the party HTV, there is always a drift to unexpected quarters, you most like so people would have difficulty numbering the squares, as having no experience at all, but I have. At the last Federal election I voted one Greens, but at the end of the day, like 80-85% of Green votes my vote ended up in the Labor pile on two party preferred, where was yours? Unless there is a strong third candidate, now days that's in about 15% of seats, the two party preferred vote is generally a contest between the big two, regardless of how way out and far right was your candidate of choice.

"I've written previously here that its important that disaffected Liberal supporters don't allow their preference to eventually go back to the Libs." So in 90% of contests you think their vote should go to Labor? Unless you live in Queensland there is no way you could vote for The Lovely Pauline, and then only in the Senate, and then only every second election under normal circumstances.

Hasbeen,

"I'm also surprised you believe we can avoid our votes for the house going through to one of the majors,"

Oh I know that in most electorates, the ultimate choice is one of the majors. The issue is which gets your higher preference. Pyne used to mock disaffected Liberal voters because ultimately their vote flowed back to the Libs anyway, UNLESS you preference ALP higher. For the last decade that's what I've been doing. The aim is to get the Libs out of power where they can hopefully re-examine and return to their roots. It won't happen in a hurry but I remain hopeful that it will happen, else the nation truly is in trouble.

Paul wrote: "I would know a bit more about the electoral process that you old chap, having worked on many an election campaign, been present during vote counting as a scrutineer many times over the past 40 years or so. "

Hmmmmm. I've worked for the AEC on the last 5 elections and the last three as one of two AEC supervisors for my electorate's counts. My experience has been that scrutineers know a lot about what their party tells them and little about the nuts and bolts of electoral counts.

" there is no way you could vote for The Lovely Pauline"

I was using "Pauline" as an avatar for One Nation.

So mhaze,

At the end of the day you suggest disaffected Liberal voters preference Labor, 85% of the time, so essentially they are third party voters who preference Labor, and some 15% of the time a competitive third candidate.

"I've worked for the AEC on the last 5 elections and the last three as one of two AEC supervisors for my electorate's counts." Hummmm, good for you. At least you can't spruik your far right political opinions on election day.

An AO, CSV and bar.

Should she have to give them back? Tudge's fingerprints all over it.

http://twitter.com/strangerous10/status/1617069049586024448?t=0jtAm_y5FIUYFtkH7Jcfnw&s=19

SR,

I find it disturbing the way you are " perpetually scathing of public servants". <smile>

mhaze,

They are not public servants, they are merely Liberal Party flunkies and lackeys. Agree? Over a 10 year period the Coalition stacked the public service with their cronies who did their bidding.

he Coalition stacked the public service with their cronies who did their bidding.
Paul1405,
Bollocks and, you know it that the Public Service Union would never allow conservative bureaucrats in the Public Service !
Such bureaucrats would be the greatest threat to the bureaudroids which are entirely Labor supporting !

Paul, showing his usual reverence for the truth informs us that "they are merely Liberal Party flunkies and lackeys.".

The women SR is targeting was appointed as Secretary of the Department of Human Services in March 2011 ie a Labor Party appointee. Appointed during the reign of St. Julia no less.

'nuf said. Paul's a fool.

Well at least it can be said that the former PM
Scott Morrison did stack all five Ministeries
with a Liberal - himself! That much is true!

Was he a fool?

We're talking about Departmental Secretaries, not Ministers. Do try to keep up.

It seems that it was St. Julia herself who announced the appointment of SR's target as Secretary of the Department of Human Services. Oh dear!

BTW SR, targeting a public servant AND a women? Aren't you worried you'll be kicked out of the the woke gang?

Dear Has been,

Your first contribution is this: “I'm surprised you suggest SR thinks mhaze.”

Nothing about what so many people went through with illegal debts being assigned to them via a punitive and uncaring government policy.
Well good on you for thinking so little of these victims of government over reach and heartlessness. Par for the course from you really isn’t it.

Dear mhaze,

Don’t be facetious. I clearly explained that the public service had been highly politicised, by both sides one must say but particularly from your side of politics. This is especially true of the upper echelons.

You bumble on: “SR finds it unlikely that the public service would implement this scheme except only under the enforced control of people he hates. I find it unlikely that the politicians would have sanctioned the scheme had they been told it would result in thousands receiving demand letters for debts Centrelink couldn't substantiate.”
The Coalition had received legal advice that the scheme was likely illegal but proceeded regardless.

Further I don’t hate conservative governments nor their politicians en-masse. I do despise their latest incarnation however, with its neo-liberal economics and disregard for those who need support.

"Christopher Birrer swears that ever since Robodebt, Complaint Handling processes in govt are sufficient as they now use “speech analytics’ to review complaints."

Ahh Commissioner Holmes not letting bulldust prevail.

http://twitter.com/strangerous10/status/1617398464849252352?s=20&t=j6PwhEy8LjLP1ZqCJ8xPeg

SR wrote: "I clearly explained that the public service had been highly politicised, by both sides one must say but particularly from your side of politics."

Well again I need to point out that 'my side' haven't been anywhere near the levers of power for many a decade so can hardly be held to account.

I'd also point out , again, that the woman you have this vendetta against was a Labor appointee so, if she was politicised, it was toward 'your side' of politics. I understand that you'd prefer that wasn't true and most certainly wasn't mentioned.

You wrote: "The Coalition had received legal advice that the scheme was likely illegal but proceeded regardless."

There are two primary aspects to the scheme that need to be examined - was it legal and was it efficacious. The legality or otherwise seems to be resolved.

But the real issue is why letters were sent out demanding repayment of welfare payments where Centrelink et al couldn't substantiate the sums claimed. Having been around this type of thing before my guess is that people just became entranced by the 'beauty' of the process. The letters and the sums calculated as owed came out of a computer and therefore, for some, were just true. Garbage in-garbage out is too easily forgotten. At this stage it seems that no one stopped to ask if the calculations made sense and there was little to no quality control over the process.

The RC will, presumably, work out just how negligent the designers of the system were and whether, if at all, the politicians were warned that the debts couldn't be substantiated. If they were given substantial warning that the debts were often incapable of being validated, then the fault lies with them. If OTOH they were led to believe that quality control validated the debts, then the fault lies elsewhere.

After the RC completes its investigations we'll have a better idea of where the error lay.

Hi Steele,

Thanks for the "Twitter" mate what can I say, this is Sir Humphrey Appleby stuff. WE have fixed all our problems down at "Centrestink" we've set up the 'Speech Analytic Unit'....and how does that work, and how do you qualify for that unit? Well I don't, maybe work at Macca's for a couple of weeks. who is this Birrer character, an absolute tosser!

"Kirsty Faichney and Christopher Birrer have been promoted to deputy chief executive officer roles at Services Australia." November 2021. Ahrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

WE have fixed all our problems
Paul1405,
Not quite, you et al are still at large !

SteeleRedux,

"speech analytics" ... i.e., "listening to the phone call" - "examining what the customer is saying"

Stranger is providing good coverage on twitter of the circus that is the Centrelink-go-round.

Indy beware,

'ROBOPENSION' debt recovery is coming! FOR YOU!

"He said they've put in a new system that hasn't been tested and it has a glitch," Ms Gay said.

He explained that glitch had noticed she made a "larger wage for a week and then multiplied it by every year".

"They therefore considered that I'd earned that figure every week from 2010 to 2016. And it also included interest," Ms Gay said."

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-01-23/qld-robodebt-scheme-government-royal-commission-fraud/101881472

So clearly and deliberately faulty - such a blatantly illegal enterprise.

Who was "GOD" down at 'Centrestink' they keep referring to? Was it ScumO' Morrison, after all Morrison was the self appointed Minister for Everything, may be he appointed himself GOD.

'ROBOPENSION' debt recovery is coming! FOR YOU!
Paul1405,
Didn't Labor promise to get rid of Robo Debt or were they telling us fibs ?

For those interested the Royal Commission is live here:

http://robodebt.royalcommission.gov.au/

I have it running on a second screen while chipping away of something else. Lot of obfuscation happening.

Yes they did Indy,

But the friendly folk of politics who got voted out, the ones you vote for will be returning in a short while and then you will see a new improved version of debt recovery called 'ROBOPENSION' where the friendly computer staff down at The Department of Pensioner Debt Recovery, will be working 24/7, flat chat in fact, with the new improved six figure random number generator program determining how much of your ill gotten gains you have to payback! How does $500,000.00, a nice round figure sound to you?

How does $500,000.00, a nice round figure sound to you?
Paul1405,
Thank you for letting us all know how you & some of your fellow bureaudroids operate. I hope someone with some say reads this !

Whew. I almost feel sorry for this woman. Serena Wilson, Former Deputy Secretary at least has had the decency to own up for her lack of action on what she acknowledges was an illegal scheme.

“With overwhelming evidence suggesting former DSS Deputy Secretary Serena Wilson pushed for income averaging knowing it was illegal, Justin Greggery KC is absolutely blistering as he squeezes out some inconceivable admissions.”

http://twitter.com/strangerous10/status/1603982559624323072?s=20&t=dSUwGjvdwng7apGLoPgUaA
http://twitter.com/strangerous10/status/1603982782576762880?s=20&t=dSUwGjvdwng7apGLoPgUaA
http://twitter.com/strangerous10/status/1603983098739556352?s=20&t=dSUwGjvdwng7apGLoPgUaA

Hi SM

Truce, I'm always up for a truce, being the very conciliatory chap as I am. Trump I'll take it your're not a Trumpster, Trump, what is Trump, he's some kind of radical in his own way, but often confused as being a conservative by true conservatives. We should never apply the old adage "The enemy of my enemy is my friend". Truce it is.

BTW; The German Greens, even I find them a strange bunch at times. Like all popular parties there is always the "infiltrators", I've come across so wacko's in Australian political parties. I recall a Labor Senate candidate some years back in NSW, the guy was a complete nut job, I said to the Labor Senators and lead candidate, why is this crazy on your ticket, by the tings he was saying, he said "Yes I know, fortunately for us he's in an unwinnable position." I had to agree.

"A bureaucrat involved in drafting his department’s response to the Ombudsman as it investigated Robodebt has conceded he failed to provide full and frank information. Under intense question at the #RobodebtRC, he admitted approving false statements."

http://twitter.com/alexlewisjourno/status/1618194522378481664?t=V3qDl5tBRWsVlVFKnar1ww&s=19

Wow. Deliberately withholding material from the Ombudsman in order to safeguard an illegal scheme.

Hi Steele,

We should all be interested in the truth, and the truth is telling in this case. I can't see how some should escape prosecution and jail time.

We should all be interested in the truth
Paul1405,

You don't want truth, it'd get in the way of your racist agenda ! Cut back on the hypocrisy !

Indy,

I don't really need to respond to you and your racists slurs, not someone who refers to others as a "concrete jungle bunny". You never refer to where you came from, or what you did there, why is that? No doubt a decent place, destroyed by you and your fellows. Thanks to us taxpayers you have enjoyed the good life in Australia, be thankful for it. You still have your snout in the trough, and no doubt will have until the day you die. We needed decent migrants to this country, and we got them aplenty, what we didn't need is people like YOU who took Australians for suckers!

They showed the person in charge of Centrelink on TV yesterday. I don't know how others felt when they saw her but I got the impression of a soul-less, mechanical bureaudroid. Her demeanour was explanation enough for the Robodebt fiasco.
She was typical of the Leftist femmocrat rank ladder climbers i.e. a perfect example of the Peter Principle in action !

Dear Indyvidual,

I agree about the soulless part but this is the product of the deep politicisation of the public service.

"Federal Government departments will be dismantled and top leaders dismissed as part of a major shake-up of the public sector.

Prime Minister Scott Morrison has moved to stamp his authority on the bureaucracy, with the number of departments cut from 18 to 14."

"Having fewer departments will allow us to bust bureaucratic congestion, improve decision making and ultimately deliver better services for the Australian people," Mr Morrison said."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-12-05/pm-sacks-bureaucrats-in-overhaul-of-public-sector/11768766

Which essentially sent a signal do as directed and do it with less resources.

In that climate frank and fearless advice goes out the window as it did with Robodebt and those who pushed back against what was essentially Morrison's baby would have been shown the door.

Why are you struggling to understand this?

Why are you struggling to understand this?
SteeleRedux,

What is there not to understand when bureaudroids aren't performing ?

In the past Indy has claimed on this Forum that 95% of public servants should be sacked, he does love the number 95. I do to, I think aged welfare should be cut by 95% starting with Indy's free handout. How does that sound.

Dear Indyvidual,

Well it was all going swimmingly according to Porter.

"Social Services Minister Christian Porter has defended the system, saying it was working "incredibly well" and had attracted only a tiny number of complaints."

http://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/centrelink-debt-recovery-drive-has-caused-summer-from-hell-bill-shorten-says-20170108-gtns33.html

Remember Tudge was very gung ho about going after the wealfare recipients:

“We’ll find you, we’ll track you down and you will have to repay those debts and you may end up in prison,”

Both ministers and the PM were ecstatic with the efforts of the public servants in charge of this all the while people were telling them is was utterly unfair and even illegal.

Those public servants put the instructions of the ministers above ordinary Australians.

These are the ministers you have supported in the past. What say you now?

Yep when Campbell Newman sacked 20,000 of them it almost halved the time to get anything approved, with thousands less in boxes for things to sit in for weeks.

Of course Anny has replaced them & double, & now nothing gets done in Queensland. We used to have mostly blokes promoted to their first or second level of incompetence, but Anny has girls in all the top jobs, promoted to their 6th or more level of incompetence. Note the police commissioner running around hugging everyone, playing nursemaid/welfare worker rather than top cop.

Dear Hasbeen,

How's it going old cock? Good?

Firstly you claim: "Yep when Campbell Newman sacked 20,000 of them it almost halved the time to get anything approved, with thousands less in boxes for things to sit in for weeks."

Well that was what he promised but it was 14,000 in the end:

"His first term was marked by the sacking of 14,000 public servants, but Queensland Premier Campbell Newman says a re-elected Liberal-National Party government won’t cut any deeper into government services."
http://www.themandarin.com.au/17126-qld-election/

But all the cuts to services and the blow out in wait times saw him turfed out that election.

Really the only thing Newman did was privatise and shuffle government work over his mates.

"However, Springborg’s former offsider Davis – who quit parliament last year – told Guardian Australia that the government had cut waiting lists by “contracting out an enormous amount to the big private groups, many of whom are also LNP donors”.

Federal donor records show Ramsay Healthcare, which has increasingly taken public patients at its Greenslopes hospital in Brisbane and elsewhere, gave $300,000 to the federal Liberal party and $10,000 to the LNP between 2011 and 2013."
http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/jan/22/queensland-government-deceiving-voters-on-hospitals-says-former-assistant-health-minister

And chumps like you clapped him all the way.

"In the past Indy has claimed on this Forum that 95% of public servants should be sacked, he does love the number 95. I do to, I think aged welfare should be cut by 95% starting with Indy's free handout. How does that sound."

Perhaps 95% is too much, but some reduction in pensions is probably appropriate.

However it should only be undertaken if all pensions paid to politicians, ex public servants, bureaucrats & quango members & employees are cut to the same level at the same time. That would make a serious dent in the deficit.

I have a better idea. How about adjusting the pension according to Taxes paid. Those who had the least write-offs get the biggest pension !

Indy,

What taxes, you can't count 50 years of welfare as "taxes paid". Life been pretty good for you old cock since you did the runner from South Africa after the collapse of the white apartheid regime, I recall you saying something about South Africa some years back. Couldn't keep it a secret forever.

you can't count 50 years of welfare as "taxes paid"
Paul1405,
You simply are so lacking in attributes what society calls normal. Your career as a Peter Principal bureaudroid is levels below someone on endless welfare just in merit alone. Is that why you had to leave Madagascar ?
I keep breaking my own promise to ignore you but I'm working on it.

Paul1405,
Apologies,
My bad- I mixed up Mauritius with Madagascar.

Thank you Indy,

My material great-great-mother was indeed born a slave on the island of Mauritius (then under British occupation from the French) in 1824. Transported to Australia as a convict in 1834, married an Englishman, also a convict, they prospered on the land, having some 11 children, all reaching adulthood, rare for those times. My material great-grandmother married a man who was part Aboriginal, so I have a smidgen of Aboriginal blood, enough for you to refer to me as a "concrete jungle bunny". On my maternal grandfathers side, his uncle was the infamous, but successful, few were, bushranger Frank Gardiner, died in the USA, I believe. I'm proud of my ancestry, unlike you who hides from it, from earlier I take it you did mention South Africa, but then again you could be the illegitimate son of a Sicilian Mafia Don, for all I know.

"concrete jungle bunny"
Paul1405,
Playing this broken record id the clearest indicator yet of your lack of integrity. Despite the fact that I had actually explained to you that I was unaware that this was, as you claim, a South African term considered racist (what isn't racist in your world). I meant it as a lighthearted term for gits frequenting the inner city suburbs. Race did not come into it until you brought it to the debate. I'm sure even if there was a thread on cornflakes or paper bags you'd find a racist aspect to it.
I even apologised & made a point of not using the term again but no, your hatred of Caucasians prevents you from ceasing being a git perpetually dealing the race card !
Being Woke excludes you from being a decent member of society. Over & out !
p.s. being a hypocritical Green makes it even more deplorable !

"Because you think working in Human Services that the first person you think about is the recipient but that was not the case throughout the government, the Coalition government."

Ms Miller: Media Advisor to the Minister.

http://twitter.com/SquigglyRick/status/1620256677948948480?s=20&t=83rGy2LE1OP0tXd1IjF7Ew

Quite an extraordinary admission after seemingly being quite defensive for the past government in her evidence.

The ABC today revealed that the enquiry into the Robot Debt fuss revealed that there were thousands of THREATS to commit suicide.

That’s like a kid threatening to hold its breath if it doesn't get its way.

The Minister responsible didn't heed these threats, there weren't thousands of suicides, and 400,000 people were caught taking taxpayers' money they were not entitled to.

Good stuff!

What a disgraceful exhibition of buck passing and failure to take ministerial responsibility from the former Minister for Human Services Alan Tudge before the Robodebt RC.

http://independentaustralia.net/politics/politics-display/alan-tudges-robodebt-rc-performance-akin-to-pulling-teeth,17199

"DHS contracted PwC to review Robodebt in 2017 who produced a Draft Report. PwC’s Shane West tries to justify why it got to its final stages before it was “shelved”
Both Commissioner & Greggery KC take turns to send West’s head spinning"

http://twitter.com/strangerous10/status/1621425602896203776?t=bBfP5dKlnhEcpZj3t0nswg&s=19

In the series of 3 clips you can see a man who is so determined not to recall anything and to claim he could find a single txt or email relating to the finishing of a million dollar contract with DHS.

Price Waterhouse Coopers. Why wouldn't we deem them dodgy as they come it seems from this exchange.

Hi Steele,

Can you believe these turkeys at this RC, if this is typical behaviour of the Coalition and their cronies in government, and give the unrelated fiascoes they involved themselves with such as "sports rorts" etc, and all the other crazy stuff, we never want to see these clowns in government again, never ever!

If the Albo & The Commos were to crackdown on welfare fraud - successfully nabbing 400,000 people - the Leftists would be cheering. Particularly one of the jerks who is always sniping at pensioners because he doesn't get a pension himself, and resents anyone who needs it to get one.

Dear Paul1405,

Not to forget the extremely compliant right wing media.

http://twitter.com/ABCmediawatch/status/1622543554848641025?t=L8uj347nKIIgz5cReWb8uQ&s=19

Hi Steele,

Shameful "journalism" from the media trash down there at the 'Murdoch Gutter Press' flagship, 'The Australian', along with others from Murdoch and the right wing media outlets. One poster on the Forum regularly quotes chapter and verse from that Murdoch rag 'The Australian', calls it quality reliable news reporting he does. He must have an account! You know who he is.

After a stella performance before the Robodebt RC, and elsewhere the Liberals are about to drop kick Touchy Tudge from the party, forcing a by-election in the once safe seat of Aston. This could spell the political death knell of the hopelessly incompetent oppo leader Dud Dutton, as the old reprobate Josh Friedbrain, who himself was dropped kicked from the parliament, is widely tipped to make a comeback. If elected Friedbrain will come armed with his backstabbing knife, and ready to stick it into poor Mr Potato Head. Interesting.

Should be interesting at the RC next week with several high profile grubs slated to appear, the list includes; Stewart Robert, Marise Payne and Michael Keenan, along with some of their flunky's and lackey's as well.

One of the biggest of the big grubs, Stewart Robert, gave his woeful evidence before the Robodebt RC today. This low life would again be a Cabinet Minister in a Dutton led government!

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-03-02/qld-robodebt-scheme-government-royal-commission-stuart-robert/102034796