Dan,

<<From what I’ve heard, Carl Wieland’s formal qualifications are in medicine and surgery.>>

You are dangerously approaching the ‘Argument from Authority’ fallacy here.

<<I’d like to know what your [Severin’s] scientific qualifications are, sufficient to give you the right to speak so disparagingly about this person.>>

It doesn’t matter whether or not others have the knowledge of genes that Wieland has, here's why...

“6. By definition, no apparent, perceived or claimed evidence in any field, including history and chronology, can be valid if it contradicts the Scriptural record. Of primary importance is the fact that evidence is always subject to interpretation by fallible people who do not possess all information.” (http://creation.com/what-we-believe)

The above renders any of Wieland’s knowledge irrelevant.

I’m a bit surprised you would insinuate that an intelligent, articulate and well respected regular to OLO such as Pericles would actually have to resort to denigration. Pericles is simply making the same observations I have always made.

From what I’ve seen, the only ones who have no choice but to resort to denigration are Creationists. This is made evident in their ad hominems designed to smear Darwin’s name by falsely claiming that he advocated eugenics as was done in the documentary, Expelled (omitted lines - again - between the ’>><<’)...

”With savages, the weak in body or mind are soon eliminated;

>>and those that survive commonly exhibit a vigorous state of health.<<

We civilized men, on the other hand, do our utmost to check the process of elimination. We build asylums for the imbecile, the maimed and the sick;

>>we institute poor-laws; and our medical men exert their utmost skill to save the life of every one to the last moment. There is reason to believe that vaccination has preserved thousands, who from a weak constitution would formerly have succumbed to small-pox.<<

Thus the weak members of civilized societies propagate their kind. No one who has attended to the breeding of domestic animals will doubt that this must be highly injurious to the race of man.

Continued...

...Continued

>>It is surprising how soon a want of care, or care wrongly directed, leads to the degeneration of a domestic race; but excepting in the case of man himself,<<

hardly anyone is so ignorant as to allow his worst animals to breed.”

[End quote]

Or the attempt by those at creation.com to make it appear as though Darwin had no compassion by modifying the same quote slightly differently...

”The surgeon may harden himself whilst performing an operation, for he knows that he is acting for the good of his patient; but if we were intentionally to neglect the weak and helpless, it could only be for a contingent benefit, with an overwhelming present evil ... We must, therefore, bear the undoubtedly bad effects of the weak surviving and propagating their kind.”

[End quote]

Anyway, I’m still waiting for a reply to the question in my last post. What is the evidence for a young Earth? If you think that Creationism deserves a level playing field with evolution, then surely there’s a truck load of evidence that you could mention... Or can we agree that Creationism doesn’t deserve a level playing field?

On another note, if world views play such an important role in determining how we interpret facts, then what is the Creation “scientist’s” interpretation of the contrast between the Rockies and the Himalayas that gives most impression that the Earth is very old?

Or can we finally agree that your paradigm argument is bunkum?

Thanks again.

A J Phillips, and others, perhaps you could find an answer from the Qld Education Minister, Mr. Geoff Wilson, and his Qld Studies Authority, both of whom allow, indeed encourage, the teaching of ID and Creationism in science in Qld state schools.

This is a hangover from National Party guru, Mr. Lin Powell, Ed Qld minister from about 1985, who actually required this to be taught.

The requirement has gone, but the Church heavy QSA refuses to declare ID and Creationism as bunkum, and allows individual teachers to make up their own mind about what to teach, so long as the basic QSA requirement is met.

The state calls itself 'the smart state' mind you.

I do encourage everyone reading this to write to the QSA and the EQ minister to see what they have to say.

This is particularly important when the idea of a 'national curriculum' is considered.

Will ID and Creationism be a part of it, along with the current EQ curriculum on Bible Lessons, taught by the class room teacher, for Y1-Y7, as Abbott has been demanding for all schools?

Gillard has refused to rule this out, so the Qld disease may well move to infect the rest of Australia if Ed Qld and the QSA is not challenged by others from within, and without, the state and Gillard caves in to this anti-Enlightenment sentiment that pock-marks our education system like a rabid mental pox.

Blue Cross,

That’s absolutely shocking. I live in Queensland, and when my children are old enough, I will be giving them full permission to leave the classroom and come home if their science teacher starts to mention Creationism as if it were a valid theory.

I will also remind them that just because something (i.e. religion) might make you feel good, it doesn’t mean it’s true. I believe that if many of today’s religious people were taught this at a young age, we wouldn’t have the amount of religious people we have today.

Dan,

Speaking of the quotes I mentioned in my last post, why is it that they change on slightly on http://creation.com/ everytime I mention them on OLO?

You’ve made some comments over the years that have hinted towards the idea that you may be good friends with the “scientists” (sic) at creation.com.

Are you telling them that they should modify the deliberately misleading quotes that I get from there like some sort of informant?

For example, the misleading quote I took from creation.com that tried to imply that Darwin had no compassion (which I previously had simply copied and pasted from the last post that I mentioned it (http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=9292#151832)) has recently changed to include the complete paragraph that was butchered in that documentary that you thought was a “Hoot”, you know... the one that takes the serious tragedy of the Nazi Holocaust and uses it in a cheap and sickening attempt to make it sound like evolution was to blame for it all (as if that had any bearing on the truth of the matter).

Also, the misleading ‘Darwin Vs Compassion’ quote at creation.com has lost some of its impact now that I’ve forced it to include more of the quote (http://creation.com/darwin-versus-compassion), but it still includes the ellipses and the line that has been worded completely differently to how Darwin worded it - so it’s still dishonest.

Continued...

...Continued

Oh and then there’s the Richard Lewontin quote that we mentioned a year or so ago (http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=7353#119074).

Remember?

I noticed that only days after mentioning it, the slimy creatures at creation.com added the following paragraph (which I had previously noted was missing (http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=7684#120922)) that helped to put what Lewontin was saying into context, and hence weakening the impact of the misleading quote (http://creation.com/amazing-admission-lewontin-quote).

I guess those at Creation Ministries were hoping that the readers of creation.com were so pre-conditioned to believe what they read on that site that they ignored the last paragraph of that quote. Not to mention the paragraphs before and after that quote that help to put it all into context.

You know Dan; I gave you the benefit of the doubt at first (http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=7353#118941); thinking you were just some innocent victim of these Creation ”scientists”, then I started to clue on to the fact that you were not only brainwashed by them, but you had become one of them... http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=7684#121938

So much so now that you’re informing creationist websites of the deceit that I’ve spotted and getting them to alter the deceit rather than remove it entirely.

For Shame!

But I guess if the trash at creation.com were to truly remove their deceit entirely, then the domain name “creation.com” would be freed up for someone else to use.

Anyway, I know you're a busy man, so I'll await patiently for your response to my earlier questions, and I apologise if I've jumped the gun here.

AJ Phillips... good luck with your children in a Qld state school. I think you will find that from the enrolment form in 'prep' to the end of Y12 you will be fighting off evangelical fruitcake pricipals, teachers, P&C members while your children will be mixing it with the children of parents who abandon them to Scrioture Union camps every holiday while they go off to work.

The underhand practice you outline in the rest of your post is precisely what Ed Qld does when they receive a complaint.

They have removed the ability to find any up to date paper documents on policy and simply adjust the web based one whenever they are caught out doing the wrong thing.

So easy to adjust the web 'blog' policy to reflect the new position, making the complaint invalid.

We have pdfs of the policy changes in one area, prior to our complaint and then after, when the rules were changed to allow the previously 'not on'.

The minister is a raving Christo, the DG boasts of her faith on her EQ web page... the curriculum writers are these people plus the churches.... the QTU remains totally silent and has a member supporting it all on the ministers religious 'advisory' committee, REAC, even while they are supposed to be supporting 'secular public schools'.

They do not at all, any more than the AEU does.

The only way to make Qld a 'smart state' is to prevent these fundie Xtians from running the system, have Bligh legislate to make state schools 'secular'-which she absolutely refuses to do- and have parents demand that even the policy EQ has now is adhered to.

I'd be happy if Gillard took the control of EQ away from Qld as part of her (non existent) Education Revolution and gave it even to NSW to run.

It's all here:http://www.thefourthr.info/

And here:http://www.australiansecularlobby.com/index.html