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The Forum > Article Comments > Lest we forget > Comments

Lest we forget : Comments

By Rosie Williams, published 25/1/2010

Australia Day 2010: learn something new about Australia and then tell someone you know or meet.

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Indigenous woman have the highest proportion of University graduates than any other group of people in Audtralia.

We might well ask the likes of Marcia Langton to share their thoughts of modern day Indigenous Culture and of the day to day activities of Indigenous peoples rather than assume this marvellous culture is maintained as it existed 30,000 20,000 10,000 or even 1 thousand years ago.

I tend towards the thought, maybe incorrectly, the Indigenous culture survives because it has adapted over a great period to circumstances and events it confronts.

I think we may be watching it doing just that ... again ... right now.
Posted by keith, Monday, 25 January 2010 10:24:13 AM
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I hope people don't allow Rosie Williams's negativity and apparent sadness about things she has no control over ruin their Australia Day. It must be awful for an ordinary Australian,who has probably done no harm to anyone, to feel the way she does.
Posted by Leigh, Monday, 25 January 2010 1:11:49 PM
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Australia Day 2010: Celebration AND Criticism the key to ‘moving forward’ together! This essay – at ‘Left Focus’ looks at the reasons for pride on Australia Day – but also the need to heed the lessons of history; and to respect the rights of all Australians in the context of a liberal, democratic and multi-cultural social democracy…

I'm posting this here as unfortuately I left it too late to submit for Australia Day itself... Hoping I get some readers and some comments anyway...

see:

http://leftfocus.blogspot.com/2010/01/australia-day-2010-celebration-and.html

sincerely,

Tristan
Posted by Tristan Ewins, Monday, 25 January 2010 2:53:01 PM
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Australia Day is a crock. Can anyone tell me what exactly we have to be proud of? We're arsy bastards in a lucky country and we've got the gall to pat ourselves on the back over it. In my area I have rednecks flying their Australian flipping flags right next to their wimdmills and the tawdry selfish lives they live inside. Their in their seventh heaven on Australia Day. What do you reckon would happen if I hoisted the aboriginal flag--and I'm a white aussie? There'd be a ritual burning! Or bricks through the window at least.
The whole patriotic extravaganza, a giant piss-up that demeans what genuine achievements have been made, makes me want to puke.
Tell your friends sitting by the river, Rosie, to be patient; the white scourge is a passing rash that will be no more than a colourful episode in the dreamtime.
Posted by Mitchell, Monday, 25 January 2010 5:55:53 PM
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Mitchell,

Where to start with you...

You pretty much sum up your internal contradictions with "Can anyone tell me what exactly we have to be proud of?" and "a giant piss-up that demeans what genuine achievements have been made".

Personally I would count democracy as one of the major credits on the balance sheet (to quote Prof. Blainey). In fact, your little rant reminded me exactly what he meant when he spoke of the "black armband view of history".

I'd be more than happy to debate with you the positive and negatives of European settlement in Australia. Otherwise, I'm sure an Australian like yourself will easily be able to migrate to one of those other wonderful countries which have no negative aspects to their history....go on name one
Posted by Stezza, Monday, 25 January 2010 8:39:24 PM
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Stezza,
I wasn't so much being contradictory as offering the concession that perhaps there have been "achievements" worthy of national pride--though I can't actually think of anything, apart from monumental engineering programmes like the Snowy. My rhetorical question, "what exactly do we have to be proud of" was meant to question our so-called Australian values, our way of life and our aspirations. "Democracy" you cite as an achievement, another sacred cow, along with Australia Day, that no one's allowed to criticise. And that's the problem with our national days and the institutions we're 'obliged' to take pride in---patriotism censors just criticism. Either get on the bandwagon and party, or be damned!
Have a look at this short article by Marieke Hardy yesterday and tell me what Australia day is all about: http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/01/25/2800086.htm?site=thedrum
Incidentally, I don't claim that any other country has anything especially to take pride in. Nationalism needs no justification, it's instinctively a reaffirmation of sovereignty, an aggressive parochialism--that's why the aboriginal flag is not tolerated and ours is held sacred. There's nothing sacred about the flag, in fact its used to cover a host of sins. Samuel Johnson said that patriotism was the last refuge of a scoundrel, but Gore Vidal said "no. It's the first!"
You imply of course that I ought to migrate. How predictable! Maybe you should get one of the T shirts Marieke talks about?
Posted by Mitchell, Tuesday, 26 January 2010 3:50:31 AM
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Mitchell if that is your outlook on Australia and life in general, then you should run a warm bath and be done with it.
This false outraged is most unbecoming. Australians, and I mean all Australians have much to celebrate today, and everyone can pick what they are celebrating. The arguments about what Australian day is about are silly and petty, a bit like the same ones about Christmas. We are a work in progress, we have made mistakes and we will make mistakes in the future. All Australians however can enjoy a standard of living that most people in the world would risk their lives to get.

Mitchell and others if you can't find something that your proud of about this country, the common wealth of Australians then you are free to be as sad. or outraged as you like on Australia Day or any other day, for this is Australia and "we are young a free"
Posted by cornonacob, Tuesday, 26 January 2010 9:01:40 AM
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Mitchell,

The Aboriginal Flag is officially an Australian flag, under the Flags Act 1953, so it can be flown anywhere, anytime. If there is to be a new Australian flag, what say they replace the Union Jack with the Aboriginal Flag ?

My dear wife Maria and I started making Aboriginal Flags in mid-1972, for the Aboriginal embassies and for visiting artists. We made probably hundreds, after work: we'd put the kids to bed and knock out a couple each night. I've always thought of it as the Australian Flag, so beautiful and striking.

Joe Lane
Posted by Loudmouth, Tuesday, 26 January 2010 3:08:39 PM
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cornonacob,
Thanks for that really thoughtful response. What “falsed outrage” are you talking about? And can you tease out one item for me from among the “much [Australians] have to celebrate today”, apart from their good fortune?
Do you have anything thoughtful to say on the subject? Have you ever really thought about it? Socrates’ dictum that “the unexamined life is not worth living” applies to whole cultures too you know. And what is OLO for? Is it there for us to simply nail our colours to the mast? Or are we prepared to take our blind prejudices to task, consider contrary points of view and grow?
Is Australia Day about anything more than self-congratulation?
I can’t believe my luck that I get to bring up my kids in this country. But I stop short of thinking it’s just, patting myself on the back for it!
Joe,
That’s a great story about you and the Mrs making flags. And the aboriginal flag replacing the Jack (I’m a pom by birth btw), oh yes! Now that it’s topical again you should push for the idea. What a beautiful flag that would make, and the symbolism!
But while the Aboriginal flag might be legal, try flying it in suburbia, mate. There’d be a lynching!
The whole Australia Day binge is despicable and stands for nothing—sorry to p!ss on the parade
Posted by Mitchell, Tuesday, 26 January 2010 5:58:39 PM
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Mitchell,

Today while celebrating Australia day with friends, I discussed this topic with a group consisting of an 8th generation Australian, two Chinese girls, and an Indian student. I think that we agreed that your position, as will as the position of Marieke Hardy-the author of the opinion piece you cite, is most probably due to your interaction with a minority of people who are intolerant, racist and offensive. However, you will be happy to know that the majority of people in Australia are tolerant, friendly and proud of the country we live in. This view of Australia is shared by many people, living in Australia and overseas- a fact supported by the large numbers of people wishing to migrate to Australia every year.

You are free to express your opinion, and even if the majority of people do not agree with you, you can still vote for a party that supports your concerns. If this party does not exist, you may even start your own party and campaign for your cause. Wow isn't this country just great!

Perhaps you should consider moving house, as the people in my suburb would be happy to accept the flying of the Aboriginal flag . However we may become offended if you start burning flags!
Posted by Stezza, Tuesday, 26 January 2010 7:52:13 PM
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Stezza, "However, you will be happy to know that the majority of people in Australia are tolerant, friendly and proud of the country we live in".

And, "Perhaps you should consider moving house, as the people in my suburb would be happy to accept the flying of the Aboriginal flag".

Congratulations on your omniscience, Stezza; to be on intimate terms not only with your whole suburb, but the whole of Australia! And they all sound like such wonderful folk.
...Are you sure you live in A_U_S_T_R_A_L_I_A? and not Fantasia?

Well you've certainly got the Aussie spirit down pat on its special day: shallow and delusional.
Posted by Mitchell, Wednesday, 27 January 2010 7:35:26 AM
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I posted in the general section

A challenge to those who are fiercely defensive of the current national symbols to answer a few simple questions from memory.
1. Name the stars of Crux Australis (southern cross)?
2. Tell me from how many points does the big star have?
3. why?
4. what's its name?
5. How many verses has the "national Anthem" have?
6. Recite them?
8. Describe our coat of arms?
9. what's written on it?
10. Can you describe, name, your children/grand children
11. your parents birthdays?
12. you love them don't you ?
13. Give you say our symbols are so sacred how come you can't get 80% of the first 9 questions right?

My point is that most of fiercely defensive posters don't really identify with the symbols and are just being emotionally recalcitrant.

PS I can answer all except number 6., but I'm for changing them because they are obsolete unjustifiably biased while ignoring, the input, contribution and existence of others. Celebrating a mythical, "white-washed" exclusive history of ONE racial group. Which by the way treated us as lessors in at least 3 wars and culturally.
Posted by examinator, Wednesday, 27 January 2010 12:46:16 PM
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Well I did abysmally at answering your questions Examinator, and I majored in Australian History some years back! ...Of course Australian history is also a crock--I'd be happy to debate that crock with you Stezza.
What amazes me is, where's all the passion out there? Why aren't the patriots rallying around the flag in the Australian colony's defence? No doubt they're busy with important things like cockroach races, eating competitions and fireworks extravaganzas.
It's my intention to go on shoving the stinging nettles up the orifices of the sacred cows, hopefully I can eventually arouse a bit more than complacency, indignation and the odd fart. But geeeze mate, this opinionated lot on OLO are cool customers! I don't think most of em ever really thought about anything!
So here's a clue, drag all those mealy-mouthed mouldy convictions into a clearing and hear em out. Say to em, "well, are yous full-a-sh!t, or can yous defend yerself!
..And if it's all just too much, ya poor bastards, grab a flag, mate, and wrap yerself up in it!
Posted by Mitchell, Wednesday, 27 January 2010 6:48:07 PM
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Dear Examinator
I am a little disappointed that you did not avail yourself of some tutoring in English, particularly grammar and spelling, over the Christnas/New Year school holidays. I am sure you have some interesting ideas which you could share with fellow ONO readers but it is truly difficult to comprehend some of your writings. For example.
"PS I can answer all except number 6.,but I'm for changing them because they are obsolete unjustifiably biased while ignoring, the input, contribution and existence of others. Celebrating a mythical, "white-washed" exclusive history of ONE racial group. Which by the way treated us as lessors in at least 3 wars and culturally."
1.Are you for changing the questions,the answers or both?
2.How can questions or answers be biased and moreso unjustifiably biased and ignore the "input, contribution and existence of others"? Questions could be obsolete perhaps but questions are simply questions.
3.You may not like a lot of what happened in Australia over the past 200+ years but the history was not a myth.
4.What racial group are you talking about? Most of the arrivals at Sydney Cove were descendants of Angles, Saxons, Jutes, Celts, Vikings, a real mix. But they were all under the rule of the British government. Since then Australia has been settled by just about every "racial" group on the planet.
5.What did Australia lease to this "ONE racial group" in at least three wars and what on earth did we lease them culturally?
Posted by blairbar, Thursday, 28 January 2010 7:30:52 AM
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blairbar: << I am a little disappointed that you did not avail yourself of some tutoring in English, particularly grammar and spelling >>

Dear blairbar, given your superior knowledge of English, could you please provide a dictionary definition of "moreso"?
Posted by CJ Morgan, Thursday, 28 January 2010 9:13:25 AM
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Superior compared to whom, CJ? If my use of the word "moreso" is your only complaint about my comments, I should be flattered.
Just for the record, I am not alone. http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Talk:moreso
Posted by blairbar, Thursday, 28 January 2010 2:55:43 PM
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Mitchell,

Why oh why do the English always want to make people miserable. First they invaded this fine country to use slave labour to chop down the grand ancient rainforest trees so they could have fancy chairs to plonk their lazy bums on. But no, not enough destruction. Still we have the whinging pom intent on bringing misery to this nation all the while he no doubts profits from it.

Can we please have an expiry date to this incessant pommie whinging? Over it. You do not run this nation now. Toddle off if you do not like it :)
Posted by TheMissus, Thursday, 28 January 2010 4:55:33 PM
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TheMissus
toddle-off now and get hubby his dinner. Leave the thinking to the men, Dear. Woman's job is to back them up, right or wrong, and they do it admirably.
Posted by Mitchell, Thursday, 28 January 2010 7:25:37 PM
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Mitchell I did fetch The Mr his dinner, afterall he did the hunting and gathering so all is fair I guess.

During dinner he happened to ask, so when do we have the revolution? You see his great, great Grandad was the last surviving soldier of the American revolution and now his tummy is full he is keen to continue the family legacy!

So it is zipped mouth or cannons to end this harping by the poms? Never mind the guilt trips that would make Everyone Loves Raymond's mom look pleasant!
Posted by TheMissus, Thursday, 28 January 2010 8:03:20 PM
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Gees Missus! I'm not used to all this talking back. Maybe hubby should give yous a sound thrashing! Now we've both gotta shut up for 24hrs!
But seriously.
I'm a reformed pom; been here since I was 10--was a ten pounder too!
The thing is dear, we're spoiled in this 'ere country, and very nice 'tis too! But it doesn't do to pretend like there's any merit in it. Some people's is just born lucky, and we're the arsiest on the planet---hitherto. But it can't last, sooner or later the sheet's got to be balanced. Silly buggers flashing their money about like they earned it is askin' fer trouble. We're part of the British empire, only the empire's testicles has shrunk back inside. And where does that leave us? In the middle of bloody Asia mate! treating the abo's and the locals like sh!t! Did you see Rudd on the tele tonight? Did you read between the lines? He wants population growth because he knows damn well we're going to need the economic and military fire power to 'old on to the farm. It was plain as day! It's not really about keeping you and the ol' man comfortable in your old age--sorry to disappoint. These Christians are a worldly lot when it comes down to it, you know.
All the bullsh!t on Australia Day is like the Mauri's doin' the Haka, it doesn't fool anyone. Frankly it's embarrassing! At best, it throws the Mongols into confusion. They look at each other an' scratch their bony heads--discombobulated. "Huh?" they say. But it's unlikely a nation of marshmallows can face-off the yellow peril for long.
It's a changing world, Missus, and Rudd hopes there'll be strength in numbers! Meanwhile, keep on cheering--eventually you'll have to cut and run, but it's been a good innings with more than a fair share of luck!
Now, how about a cup of tea dear, and a foot massage, I think?
Posted by Mitchell, Thursday, 28 January 2010 9:11:13 PM
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I know I'm going to sound like a walking contradiction but here goes.

My Australia Day activities use to consist of sailing in the Melbourne to Geelong yacht race (a beauty if it isn't on the nose) then partying away till the wee hours trying to forget about the cracked lips and attempting to beat the severe dehydration with beer (never really works).

Family responsibilities have forced an admittedly welcome change and for a number of years we have made our way to the in-law's sheep farm, ate of a fresh kill, drank a little more wine than beer (by tradition these have to be Coopers), then read Banjo poems after desert.

This year we had the festivities for about 20 at our place and the meat was Turkey, although consensus deemed it fitting in its own way, even just for its name.

A recent genealogy search has uncovered three more relatives of my wife who, as ANZACs fought in France in WW1, two of whom remain buried there. They were remembered with raised glasses before the main meal but with my wife's father (who was present) probably having relatives fighting on the other side the toast was without fuss adapted to include all those fallen in war. It was only later that it struck me as a particularly Australian think to do.

The open readings of Banjo are always a hit. Mulga Bill's Bicycle still gets a laugh, the pathos of The Pearl Diver is acknowledged, The Man from Ironbark is a delight and by tradition the second half of each line is left for the audience to complete, while The Man from Snowy River is given due reverence being passed around to all those willing to contribute a chapter.

Cont
Posted by csteele, Monday, 1 February 2010 12:01:43 PM
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Cont

However we have yet to strike out an Australian flag on Australia Day.

It just doesn't seem to have been deemed to be necessary. For me personally though, part of the reason is that directly after Cronulla I considered the flag somewhat tainted. I remembered cringing the following ANZAC Day when I saw one youth with it draped around his shoulders as we made our way to the dawn service at the shrine in Melbourne, and was thankful there appeared to be few others taking that liberty (could have been a general Melbourne reticence).

This year was the first since the riots where I have felt comfortable seeing the flag flown from cars and draped from fences, and I'm even chilling out about the cape thing. I think I have realised that there are many ways to celebrate our national day. I also feel I am retrieving some lost pride in my country and while there are many things to grind my teeth over about Mr Rudd, the apology to the Stolen Generations has helped heal my hopefully temporary disaffection with our country's banner.

I still don't think I will be flying one soon but if one of the youngsters were to see fit to strike the flag at the family's next gathering a year from now then that's fine by me.
Posted by csteele, Monday, 1 February 2010 12:03:53 PM
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