Thank you, Mr. Cullen.

What a pile of self serving drivel.

No wonder Mr Cullen is the ex director of primary education.

http://www-rcf.usc.edu/~gpainter/Season%20of%20Birth%2009_04.pdf

While it is clear that a year of pre school has little effect on most children, but has a marked effect on those with learning difficulties and from a disadvantaged background.

As per the link, the most recent test results show an advantage in starting children earlier (5yrs) in Kindy.

Given the consequences of children finishing school, Uni, and other education a year later, and the cost of an additional year of pre school / mother staying at home, the economy, the children and the parents are better served with the starting age at 5.

Shadow Minister,
Just because you don't appear to grasp the concept of efficiency & realty does not justify to accuse someone who does of writing drivel.
The most important years in a human's live are the years a human being is alive. However, there have been people who appear to have more influence over society after they died. Why ? Because in general humans are guided by what is being presented to them from people before them. You get intelligent people who convey intelligence & stupid people who convey stupidity. Now, at age 5 a human being is learning how to interact & think for itself. This particular phase can best be aided by letting it be itself whilst learning. To drag it into a room filled with others & have a compliant of a particular system force feeding the 5 year old is not developing its individuality, it's brainwashing !
The # 1 problem why so many baby boomers have become useless adults is because we
had morons force teaching us a lot of crap & because that's all we know we're now doing the same to our young. I have known many intelligent kids who were ruined by the education system.
The magnificent advances of the past are due to a handful of people who did not get brainwashed. Just look at early composers & philosophers etc. They still have more sensible influence now than so many of today's "experts"

Individual,

From your incoherent and rambling posts it is clear that you think that attending school is a punishment.

Most children enjoy kindie and pre school and socially benefit tremendously from the experience, and judging from your previous posts, spelling, scentence structure and grammar, a few extra years of schooling would have done you the world of good.

Unlike yourself I prefer to rely on recognised studies than personnal prejudices. Perhaps you would like to cite a study that shows children do better without the social interaction of school?

As for your drivel on dead composers, do you have a point?

Shadow Minister,

Are you suggesting that the social interaction provided by being schooled is natural and that we should endeavour to shut little children away from the broader community at ever younger ages for their social and emotional benefit?
Please explain how being placed together in an institution for 30-odd hours a week for 30-odd weeks a year, away from interactions with the general community, with peer-aged children who live within your postcode area is designed to provide good all-round socialization skills?
School has many agendas, some overt and some covert, however socialization is the one that is always thrown up as a defence of the system.
Our system of schooling, left over from the early days of industrialization, is more likely to warp a child's natural ability to interact successfully with members of society of all ages than to enhance it.
For some strange reason, we seem to believe that the earlier we rip children away from the greater community and place them in institutions for their "social benefit", we are doing them a favour.
We are, in fact, doing them a disservice.
Why, for instance, did our Federal Government recently find it necessary to implement "Depression Prevention" programs for infants and young children?
Something is wrong in paradise - it should give people food for thought.

Shadow Minister why haven't you changed your title yet ? judging by your comments you are actually Minister. I find it hard to believe a real 2010 Shadow minister would carry on like this unless of course there's an election won by the conservatives.
What you describe as incoherent rambling is more aptly described as the critic being incoherent to common sense i.e. observations & experiences gained in everyday life rather than having mere theories drummed into the mind. Those who believe that Kindergarten is enjoyed by the kids need to go to Kindy themselves. As for the drivel on dead composers I won't even explain as it obviously would be totally lost on you. As for other long gone individuals sit back & think (if you can) on the countless commodities we are enjoying & find so useful in our daily life. No doubt sooner or later another bright individual will make a useful i.e. practical discovery or invention through his/her own initiative & trials rather than just copying some academic theory which after all, is only a theory.

Mr. Cullen,

Thank again for daring to ask.

But where are the ones with the courage to meet your questioning frontally?

With the exception of few who have instinctively shunned indoctrination, schools have shaped the totality of people in what we may call Western Society.

Can the passengers of sanctified Corporations called schools, which run man from infanthood to adulthood, in totally insulated crafts, question the Craft builders or their pilots?

A number of these passengers have been rewarded with privileges above a greater number of ones left to be used and abused, Privileges to be defended toot and nail.

Every day in every publication we listen-to or read of forums on all subjects under the sun; army of school-qualified instant experts rehash and rewash what their institutions have instilled into their brains, while, outside, as in another world, few dream of totally deschooling society as one of the few necessities for a future fit for man

Collectively, we are educating the adult population of tomorrow, both ends of the stick of life, looking to the middle for answers. and the middle just demands, "more knowledge, creative thinking, new Ideas, a better way, more productivity", till we outlive our usefulness and are rejected as "wanting, a burden, an expense."

Older cultures pass back experience of "what worked or did not work" to provide a balance to current thought, allowing the next generation to accept or reject current thinking by the "worker" generation who are mostly concerned with the accumulation of individual wealth, power or lifestyle.

It can be a scary world out there. Raising children well is one of the toughest unpaid jobs you can do. It strikes me that too many people are growing up without being taught how to progress emotionally, even as the world becomes more complex. The more connected technology makes us, the more challenging are the rules of engagement. You only have to look at how people communicate on social networking sites and blogs to realise how rapidly conflict can escalate. Equipping children to cope better with it is one of the biggest challenges we face.

Poirot,

Considering that the Kindy schooling occupies less than 20% of their waking hours during the year, to claim that they are being shut off from the broader community is ridiculous. While the 30 hours (incl lunch and rest time) is more to do with the rest of the school time table, peer interaction is not just natural but extremely necessary in development. Given that for centuries before schooling, groups of children were left in the charge of a carer whilst the mother worked, I would struggle to see how this is unnatural. (this occurs amongst other animals too.)

While attentive parents can provide the stimulating games and regular peer interaction that kindy provides, many don't, and the effects on children where this has been neglected is clear, and this is a major problem in remote aboriginal areas.

One of the major factors in the outstanding results achieved by Finland is due to the highly skilled and free pre school care and stimulation provided to all.

There are many skills that are learnt early in life other than reading and writing that cannot be learnt later.

Indiv,

I have used the Nomme de Plume Shadow Minister for nearly 4 years, so it has nothing to do political affiliation, rather more to do with the function of a shadow minister, which is to point out the factual distortions and deflate the pomposity of the posters.

Mr Cullen's post is so distant from an balanced presentation of information that it is a disgrace.

I researched the possibility of home schooling for my kids and while we did not choose that path it was an interesting exercise. We found many home schooled children well socialised and interacted well with other kids - they were also very creative.

A pre-school teacher once confided that kids who came from child care were outwardly confident, often more extrovert than the kids who came from the home; but under the veneer the home kids were more confident, secure and possessed greater 'maturity' to be able to handle the new challenges that ensue from public schooling.

Steiner education starts later than public education based on the premise that kids reach a point where learning is faster and more age appropriate (noting that readiness is a broad church and there is variation). It is a bit like buying an advanced plant over a smaller one, the smaller one often more vigorous.

Education has changed - we see less emphasis on the basic tools of education and more on extra-curricular such as legal studies, business studies even CSI on the school subject choices. Teachers now have to provide what parents once did adding to the pressures.

While this gives an interesting range and it is not all bad, without the right management it means the basics get neglected. Even universities are finding they have to run remedial English classes because young students could not spell or write a coherent sentence. This is not progress.

My own education lacked attention to Grammar. I am not perfect in this respect. Grammar was sadly lacking in the public schools I attended in the late 60s and 70s. Experimenation with open plan was rife during this period. I still find myself using passive grammar and often have to go to a book when I am writing to check a point of grammar - should I split an infinitive and I didn't know a past particple if I tripped over it.

SHADOW MINISTER, Thank you for clearing the point that you are acting as a devils advocate.
The referred report quoted was compiled from an American study for a different cultural model.
the study looked only at y8 + and was adjusted for "red shirting" due to potential academic disadvantages.
the report concluded "there is no reason to expect delayed kindy entry to increase [or conversely decrease] educational attainment"

The data, a longitudinal study commenced in 1988 is of no relevance to Australia as it does not match the new generation of "technocrats" in our primary school playgrounds. where y1 kids carry mobile phones and are instructed to call 000 for protection from 7-8yo's with flick knives I know as my grandkids are in this situation.

Also check your facts re Finland who are at the top of the tables because of their commitment to teaching and nothing else. In Finland a teacher must have a masters degree to teach and the teachers are some of the most highly qualified and motivated teachers in the world.

Poirot the ""Depression Prevention" programs for infants and young children?" is not findable in government archives are you referring to "PATHWAYS TO PREVENTION: DEVELOPMENTAL AND EARLY INTERVENTION APPROACHES TO CRIME IN AUSTRALIA"
which is similar but has little relevance because it is mainly directed to victims of early abuse and the consequent effect on schooling discipline and social development - anti-social behavior and is a policing and law document

apart from this reference I applaud your other sentiments.
If it was me I would use Finlands example or make the minimum age and experience requirement of a TEACHER as 65 - with grandkids. -Very cheap with lots of experience in the "Real World" the government should only supply finance and overview auditing to see that the money is correctly spent and not rorted. then industry and business would have no need to look overseas for "expert Workers"

Is this article more about government intervention and the policy of compulsory testing and one upmanship or is it about real kids with real needs.

Pelican,
Interesting post. I do homeschool my child, so am obviously biased toward this way of learning, and hold strong views in general about the issue of personal autonomy.
Your point about the confidence of homeschooled children is pertinent.
When we began homeschooling we joined with the local homeschooling group. I was surprised and impressed with the level of maturity displayed by the older children and teenagers.
These teenagers were keen to engage me in conversation - they were interested in what I - and those of my age-group - had to say. And they were eloquent in their responses. How different from the usual abyss that exists between conventionally schooled children and their elders.
And it didn't stop there. All the children mix - they don't need to be told to do it, they just do it. During shared activities they don't naturally segregate each other. the older children assist the younger children without a second thought.

Shadow Minister,
I take your point that the average stint in a school-based kindergarten only adds up to approximately 12 hours a week. But let us not pretend that long day-care has not altered the playing field. These centres run pre-school programs within their time jurisdictions. Approximately 50 percent of 1-4 years-old are placed regularly in long day-care.

Mawsouth,

I spend a fair amount of time in Finland and regularily chat with a primary school teacher there (wife of a collegue) and her opinion and a number of her collegues is that pre school education is essential for cognitive development, and that this is one of the cornerstones of the Finnish success. (I will be flying there this Saturday)

Also:

http://www.progressive-economics.ca/2006/12/07/benefits-of-early-learning-programs/

OTTAWA — Preschool is better preparation for kindergarten than the attention of a stay-at-home-mom, new research shows.

The national study in the United States found children who attend preschool — centre-based care — enter public schools with higher levels of academic skills than their peers who experienced other types of child care, including stay-at-home parent, relative care and babysitters."

“Whether their peers overcome their early deficits, or whether preschool attendees maintain their advantage, is in part a function of the subsequent classroom environment,” concludes the study.

In short, the advantage of pre school could be overcome by grade 3 if:
"experiencing class sizes of 20 youngsters or less and enjoying levels of reading instruction in excess of the average of 61 to 90 minutes a day. By contrast, a marked advantage persists among their counterparts in low instruction or large classes,” the study found.

Mr Cullen convieniently overlooked this proviso.

As there are few schools in Aus (except private schools) that meet this criteria, I would suggest that preschool and Kindy are of great benefit.

Mawsouth,

The depression prevention program targeted at children from the ages of one to seven years-old was announced by the Federal Government in October, 2009. It was announced by Health Minister, Nicola Roxon. Jeff Kennett was also involved in the launch, and it was widely covered in both the print and electronic media.

www.watoday.com.au/breaking-news-national/preschoolers-get-antidepression-skills-20091005-gixj.html