I always try and keep my posts short and so it is always difficult to express an opinion in just a few words. Only a general overview can be made. I should have have added that there is good debt and bad debt. Good debt should be used for production and not for pure consumption. Obviously in the case of shazBaz001 there were extenuating circumstances. However I would not have put my self in the position of having 5 children as it would have put me in an risky financial position, but of course that is a totally personal decision.

As outlined above Mikk, there is also certain personal choice in debt and it sounds very much as though you have a personal grudge against people who make a lot of money. Perhaps you would prefer to live in a country, which is run by a dictator, is corrupt or has no real rule of law. We are fortunate that we live in a democracy......Not perfect by any means......but we have the opportunity of throwing out governments if dissatisfied. If you don't have superannuation that invests and give you a return from the companies you despise, perhaps you should do so independently. In spite of retiring only a short while ago and never having earned more than $20,000 a year while working, I am now a self funded retiree with no burden on the tax payer. You see, I always paid cash for what I purchased which was, and still is, a great help. I also know how to live cheaply......I could give you a run-down on that too !

*We had five kids in six years*

Sheesh, personally I would have used a credit card to get hold
of some family planning :)

I once read about a test called the marshmallow test. Young kids
are asked to either take the marshmallow now, or wait 10 minutes
and then have two marshmallows.

Some kids grab the one marshmallow on the spot, others wait. When
they follow those kids to later life, that is how they handle
money too. I have friends on high salaries who can't cope and
are always broke, others on pensions who manage quite well.

So it seems there is a genetic componenent here, some just
can't help themselves and others plan. For the former, the best
thing to do is snip their credit card in half, for the temptation
to use it is just too great.

Firstly allow me to thank everyone for their posts. It’s rare to find comments on web-based forums such as this which are insightful and well written; so thank you.

One point I’d like to pick up on is the somewhat ambivalent (in the Freudian sense) relationship we in the west tend to have with capitalism/democracy. In a sense we simultaneously love and hate it. Those of us who find fault with a system that tends to subordinate human/environmental well-being in the name of profit, have the freedom to do so precisely because we live in wealthy countries. There is no immediate threat of war or revolution, our goods are protected by well-established law and our every need is met. We are fed, clothed and protected by the very system we criticise. I still think though that there is a place for this kind of criticism from within. Perhaps the gluttonous, obtuse, Australian Idol-watching consumer is the more honest citizen of a capitalist society, when contrasted with the critic who rails against the capitalist mode of life but is unwilling to remove themself from it.

For myself, I can only say that the trinkets and oddities of capitalist society are endlessly fascinating, particularly for what they say about humanity. We drive cars, watch televisions, play with Iphones, pay with credit cards and amuse ourselves with countless oddities and yet these things seem perfectly natural to us. It would hardly do to suggest that things were better/simpler in “the good old days” (as if simple equates directly with good), but I think it’s important to consider where all this will end. Can we keep on going the way we have been indefinitely? Does some b-grade Hollywood apocalypse await our children or grandchildren? We are an endlessly curious and inventive species, but it worries me that our vocation (for want of a better word) has been thoroughly accosted (and is now directed to a large extent) by the widespread pursuit of profit.

I.B.

I reckon, for my 2c worth:

1. Put the drs and the A.MoneyGrubbers. Association back on the guvment MediCare rate

2. Put the Wig Parasites back on the legislated taxable rate

3. And the p!gs in the banks on a flate rate

AND

4. SAVINGS back in the hands of the hard workers who make this nation tick.

The reality is, credit cards unlock great time savings when one can orchestrate ones affairs remotely over the web. Better than traveling all around with silly pieces of paper, wasting gross amounts of time and tree resource when we need them for shade, clean air and carbon storage units.

The ugly Australian economic model is fundamentally flawed. Full employment should be insisted upon. Rises in pension and economic stimulus were not a question of cash handouts, but rather an experiment in lifting the wage of the base of the economy.

Too many people get paid too much, and too many people get paid too little. The extremities of the bell curve need to be drawn in.

A good rule of thumb is to only use credit to buy something that will appreciate in value, as ShazBazz did. Houses in, cars out. If we continue on our debt-ridden ways, we will increase our reliance on countries like China, where the savings of people far poorer than us are already propping up the profligate west.

All to many people are wasting their lives worried about debt. Others will never be allowed to retire because they have debt.
Smart people never get into debt that causes worry.
To retire you have to be debt free. And have a reasonable amount of investment.
House plans cause a lot of long term pain, the more squares you get the cheaper those squares become. On the other hand the more land you have to have.
All very good but it has to be paid for.
The recent trend is for smaller homes on smaller blocks.
I know i build them.