I agree Col.

I watched this ABC special on the 'GFC' the other night and I cant believe the propaganda. Seriously it was shocking. Some guy waltzing around trying to blame the banks for people using easy credit. It was more biased than Michael Moore.

I was sitting there thinking, hang on, nobody held a gun to these people's heads and said they must max out a 20% interest credit card. The boom/bust cycle seems pretty old news to me, so wouldn't it be prudent for people to save for a rainy day if they are worried about their jobs? They kept going on about the greed of the banks, and totally neglected the greed of their customers. Having said that I cant believe we bailed the stupid companies out either.

They kept this stupid analogy going of the banks as 'drug' dealers and the populace 'addicted' to money. If I overdosed on drugs the last person I'd blame is my dealer.

pontificator,

I would encourage you to be a little less pompous and patronising. Just because you use cowardly little weasel words doesn't mean the context of your posts are missed. I'd rate Pericles effort about 5 times the better logical argument than your sad clichéd effort proposing you're somehow 'outside' consumer society, or that your purchases and votes are somehow more morally based or intelligently crafted than this inferior naive lemming 'other' you talk of.

'The Deputy Prime Minister, Ken Henry' pretty much sums up the whole article.

Well,the International Reserve Banks have a lot to answer for.It is they through their fractional resereve system of creating money from nothing,that steals people's wealth via the depreciation of currency.I will gladly have that debate with anyone.

Where's Pericles?

You won't really, Arjay.

>>.I will gladly have that debate with anyone. Where's Pericles?<<

Your idea of a "debate" is to parrot a whole lot of slogans that you dredge up from the web, that you don't really understand, and cannot support.

The minute you show the remotest understanding of finance, inflation, currency exchange and the role of debt, it might make for an interesting discussion. But until you do, there's not much point.

Anyone who believes as you appear to, if I may quote you from another thread, that...

>>There would be plenty of money for all in this country if we were able to create our own credit like the USA prior 1913<<

...needs to a lot more homework. On history, as well as finance.

Every time you are challenged to put some substance behind the slogans, you simply dive back into the web, look up Mises or LaRouche or that loopy Ron Paul, and deliver another cartful of (someone else's) utopian theory.

There is definitely a place for discussion on the role of lending in the sorting out of our boom and bust cycles. But ignorance is not generally considered the ideal starting point.

Have a great day.

Pericles cannot deny the facts.Since 1913 our currency along with the US has depreciated 96%.$1.00 today will only buy 4c worth of goods back in 1913.Now to halve the value of a currency ,you have to double the money supply above pop growth and GDP.To depreciate a currency by 96% you have to increase the money supply by 24 times above pop growth and GDP.If Pericles counterfeits $22 million equal to the pop of Aust,this is like stealing $1.00 from every person since it depreciates our money.It is not the wage earner who creates inflation but more our Govts and the Banks.

So who creates all this new money.We as individuals cannnot,since this is counterfeiting and we will be gaoled for it.Our Govts create a bit via cash ,but most of it is created by the banks though the fractional reserve system when they create money to loan to us.money is created via the system of debt.By depreciating a currency they are stealing from the general populace.

This is why people like Pericles do not like this knowledge being aired ,since it is this very system that props up the derivative market at the expense of the real economy.

You only have to look at the depreciation of our dollar to realise how much this system has stolen from the average punter.
This is why our country is in so much debt.It has nothing to do with working harder or smarter.There are just too many big parasites.

Arjay & Pericles;
I suspect that you are both arguing about the wrong thing.
To generate money by making credit was OK so long as work had to be
done for the money when it is spent. Life time is the real value.
That was all very fine while there was growth to not just pay back
the capital but the interest as well.

However we are now entering a no growth period and may soon be coming
to a contraction period. All the interest due on all those loans that
government, companies and individuals have committed themselves to
will not be repaid.

That is when we will see another big bang, ie not another bubble but
the big bang that the US is worried about.

You are so, so right, Arjay.

>>Pericles cannot deny the facts.<<

That's the very last thing I would do.

Facts are important. Facts are critical to our understanding of the world.

Slogans, on the other hand, are as unedifying as they are lazy.

>>Since 1913 our currency along with the US has depreciated 96%.$1.00 today will only buy 4c worth of goods back in 1913.<<

As I have pointed out to you on any number of occasions, this is a nonsense argument. If you took your weekly pay back to 1913, you be considered extraordinarily wealthy.

To give you another angle on how ridiculous your comparison is, ask yourself how many loaves of bread you could buy with a trillion Deutschmarks in 1923, and how many you could buy today with the same number.

>>So who creates all this new money.We as individuals cannnot...<<

Counterquestion: who uses "all this new money", and what do they use it for?

>>You only have to look at the depreciation of our dollar to realise how much this system has stolen from the average punter<<

Have you looked at today's exchange rate? Looks pretty strong to me. To the point where exporters are starting to look anxious. Any thoughts on that, Arjay?

Bazz, I think you are a few months out of date.

>>However we are now entering a no growth period and may soon be coming to a contraction period.<<

I would be - albeit cautiously - optimistic about growth right now. Most of the signs are positive, at least.

>>All the interest due on all those loans that government, companies and individuals have committed themselves to will not be repaid.<<

It is quite possible that this is the reason that interest rates - at least in those economies still hurting badly - will stay low for a while longer.

With any luck, the short, sharp shock the global economy has experienced will rinse out some of the more egregious financial practices that helped it come about in the first place.

But I'm not actually holding my breath.