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The Forum > Article Comments > Mind the gap: public and government views on migration diverge > Comments

Mind the gap: public and government views on migration diverge : Comments

By Joseph Chamie, published 29/10/2009

Turmoil is likely until the costs and benefits of immigration are addressed frankly by governments and societies.

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Yes it's true, immigration policy has evolved in nearly complete disregard of public opinion.

Thank God.

Readings:

http://elecpress.monash.edu.au/pnp/free/pnpv7n1/v7n1_4hage.pdf

http://press.princeton.edu/chapters/i8472.pdf
Posted by strayan, Thursday, 29 October 2009 4:47:35 PM
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strayan, "Yes it's true, immigration policy has evolved in nearly complete disregard of public opinion.

Thank God."

Roll on the totalitarian state, eh strayan?

Did you happen to read the article at all or was it just a heaven sent opportunity to dump some links?

BTW, surely you don't expect anyone to download lengthy articles where you haven't even had the courtesy to outline the points you are trying to make - apart from the obvious one, which is your contempt for the public and for democratic processes.
Posted by Cornflower, Thursday, 29 October 2009 6:01:10 PM
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See how easy it is to weed out the people who obviously feel they should get a vote on the level of immigration or whatever it is they happen to be 'worrying' about at the moment.

I'd like to pay no tax but I don't expect to get to have a vote on it. I'm certainly not going to turn to violent political extremism if I don't get my way - which is basically what they author predicts will happen if those with anxieties about immigration don't get urgent help.
Posted by strayan, Friday, 30 October 2009 8:13:24 AM
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Strayan -

It sounds like what you are saying is that representative government shouldn't do what the majority of the people want.

You're analogy about paying taxes doesn't make sense, because the majority don't agree with you. The majority know they have to pay taxes to get services. The majority want less immigration and the governments they elected, don't do what they want. That is a problem with the government. That idea is in opposition to the central tenets of democracy. That is what the article is about.

The two articles you've linked are 11 and 6 years old and neither give even a cursory mention of the environment. They are both articles about how whities hate darkies. The exact same "If you don't like immigration, you are a racist" arguments have been used for years to take the focus off the environment, congestion, higher housing prices and lower wages.

The average Australian does not benefit from high immigration. He gets lower wages and a poorer environment. The high flyers who want to keep wages down and do more real estate deals make money out of high immigration, but the average worker loses. That is one reason why the average guy opposes high immigration.

Population growth can't go on forever. The average voter knows that but the average politician is only thinking in 3 year terms and gets money from the people who want high immigration so instead of doing what the majority want he does what the big money guys tell him to do.

That's wrong.
Posted by ericc, Friday, 30 October 2009 8:54:14 AM
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Of course strayan- because actually trying to justify your beliefs to an actually-democratic public is too much to expect.

Sad but true- we in Australia always hopes big brother will force our beliefs on everyone else instead of trying to argue them ourselves- left AND right.
Posted by King Hazza, Friday, 30 October 2009 11:27:38 AM
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High rates of immigration and fertility boosters are destroying the world.

Kevin Rudd's vision of Australia with 35 million people being a version of utopia is an example of a tragic delusionary hoax, similar to Bob Hawke's vision of "no child living in poverty".

Instead of an aim of being a sophisticated Denmark of the South Pacific, with Denmark having a stable 5 million people and exporting all over the world, our prime minister wants us to live in a more polluted, debt ridden and environmentally trashed western democracy .

With 22 million people, he can't stop our per capita rising debt, greenhouse gas emmissions, bushland/farmland loss, congestion and decreasing levels of spending on education/research.

Additionally, even with massive asset sales, our national debt has climbed from 8 billion dollars in 1980 to a combined debt of 1 trillion dollars now and increasing by 2 billion dollars a month. This 1 trillion dollars is made up of 300 billion government debt and 670 billion private debt. Much of the private debt comes from banks borrowing overseas to fund household mortgages and lifestyles.

As each Australian on average is consuming more than they are producing, the population growth rate forced on us by Kevin Rudd of 1.2 million people every 3 years, is the driver for unstoppable debt and pollution.

The answer lies in policy settings to encourage two children families at around 30 years of age ( ABS stats state that our birthrate is double our deathrate ), zero net migration ( that equates to a 80,000 intake) and targeted aid to solve world population issues at source.

Ralph Bennett 43 Queenscliff Rd Queenscliff NSW 2096 Ph:0402 335 08
Posted by Ralph Bennett, Sunday, 1 November 2009 1:54:53 PM
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The problem is not 'migration'. What worries the public is an increase in non-productive people... people who don't contribute and don't integrate.

For example, Dept of Immi figures show that 70% of Australians who were born in Afganistan are welfare-dependant!

Howard's immigration system (100 points) basically weeded out those who were going to add to Australia, from those who were going to form welfare ghettos. In some ways it was akin to an IQ test. By improving the immigrants, he was able to increase immigration and reduce Australia's fear of immigration at the same time. Pretty impressive result!

The future now is at risk, not fromm immigration, but from the middle-class's failure to produce enough children.

The future needs a middle class...

Without a middle-class, you have no democracy, you have no free education, you have no social mobility etc.

In Aust the rich are getting richer (and fewer) and the poor getting more numerous, because of unbalanced fertility.

It's birthrates... The middle(professional) class in western nations is suiciding. While the welfare class and the Muslims are breeding rapidly?

Welfare actively discriminates against parenthood, marriage and against the middle-class.

Children are quite profitable for those on welfare.

Meanwhile the middle class can't affort large families.

Solution 1: remove the complex family payments etc... and just make families tax-deductible!

- 5% off your tax per kid? Or
- allow income splitting between all family members, so the middle class can finally afford children!

What is it about being middle-class that causes it to suicide? What causes middle-class people to fail to have large families?

Firstly feminism is a middle-class thing... Middle-class wives enjoy a work-life balance, dads work long hours and work on the weekends trying to catch-up with their kids...

Men know that divorce means everything they ever worked for. Worse still their kids they love are stolen from them...

So professional men are refusing to become fathers...

Men know marriage and fatherhood has been rigged by feminism and are refusing to marry... changing girlfriends every few years to avoid the risks of fatherhood and divorce.

PartTimeParent@pobox.com
Posted by partTimeParent, Sunday, 1 November 2009 3:20:08 PM
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