The infuriating thing for secular humanists like me, is that when we argue our point of view, it is seen as just that; an opinion.
When the religious argue theirs, they invoke supernatural authority and their opinion gets promoted to a moral value. For example, secular public schools are called "value neutral" when of course they are the opposite, particularly considering the inclusivity and acceptance they practice, and religious private schools are deemed to be bastions of moral values, on sometimes very little evidence, other than the words they preach.
This argument will never end, but I yearn for the day when all opinions on the subject will be considered equal. Then we might have a real conversation.

enaj,
When the time comes that we all believe the same thing then this forum for ideas becomes redundant. We will then all believe the teacher and we will not have any original personal ideas or challenge and taught position. Sounds like a totalitarian society to me. It will be OK for you if all believe the same as you, same for me.

I suggest you look at those that promote a totalitarian doctrine, perhaps there is one utopian State in existence already. On the other hand you might not want to join it because they teach things you do not agree with. The purpose and end of man is not to know everything, but to live lives that have fulfilled emotions and spiritual lives that bless our family, friends and society.

Philo, check your dictionary. Equal does not mean the same. Equal means of equal value. You can continue to believe whatever you like in my view. I don't want to convert you (I believe that's more prevalent on your side of the fence) I just want you to listen to my views with equal respect.
Totalitarianism is the inevitable result of believing one set of beliefs is superior to and more important than another. Democracy requires equality, you know, like equality of opportunity and equality before the law. Doesn't mean the same opportunity, just one of equal value.

Dear Enaj

I really don't think its about 'superior/inferior' in the sense you mean.

As Christians, we are committed to Christ, He calls us to proclaim the gospel of salvation. To do so is not to set ourselves above anyone, it is to simply be obedient to the divine call as humbly as possible.
Yes, we seek 'conversion' a turning around of lives and hearts, a renewing of minds a re-directing of wills toward God, rather than self.

On the relative merits of the ideas.... well, you have to assess that yourself, our fundamental problem with secular humanism is that it was born out of an enlightenment/reformation/renaissance all of which occurred in a Christian cultural setting/framework. i.e. there there were given values. It seems to the observer, that humanism just took the 'nice' values of Christianity and then proceeded to reject the Author. Most humanist web sites will say as much, and especially existential ones. In fact they admit that the dilemna of "What is right, what is wrong' is the very first philosophical challenge they face.

As I've said numerous times, this leads to 5 people (even humanists) having 5 different ideas about what is right/wrong. They have no anchor, rudder, lighthouse.

I would be the last to suggest we commit to Christ 'just' so we can have a foundation for values, but it is a wonderful by product of salvation in Christ.

Cheers

enaj,
To quote you, "This argument will never end, but I yearn for the day when all opinions on the subject will be considered equal. Then we might have a real conversation."

Thanks for thinking my opinions could be equal in value to yours. I thought you were passionately defending your opinions because you actually believed in them. That your view of the world had more value than mine.

So my views have equal status in your mind; I am flattered! I will be careful not to dissagree with you in the future since my opinions have equal value in your mind. I love you!
[Just an opinion]

boaz, i could name 5 christians on this site who have different ideas of right and wrong, depending on the issue.