Radical Phil,
Yah! you believe in a two state solution ( presumably by negotiation) and are thereby saying that is fair? to whom? You must otherwise you wouldn't be citing it as some example of your moral justification. Have you heard of Ambit claims?

If I appropriated you home, your wealth then offered you the back shed with 3 mtrs on one side, $50 and no clear irrevocable access to it, how is that fair? Give you a 1/3 but raze it first? And you wouldn't get shirty? I don't know for sure But I think I might!

Pragmatics tells us that Israel's existence is a given but draw the line where Israel wants it? An orderly hand over of all lands back to the pre 67 borders, reparation to all the dispossessed in Lieu of losses, complete houses and infra structure is GETTING fairer.

Merely advocating a two state solution is simply siding with Israel. The Palestinians have still lost ground that they once owned...re my analogy.Totally fair would be they both live in one secular country after the Israel paid reparation. In fact Pilger is right if not always totally realistic.

examinator,if you draw tyhe line where Israel wants it where do you put the expelled Arabs and those who have a right to return after the tragic return?
Israel wont accept them. What you suggest as a pragmatic solution CANNOT be accepted by Israel because it would lead to a one nation that would beIsreal with an israeli majority to maintain a democratically Israelli government in perpeetum or the jews stand to be democratically dispossessed in their "own land" ...it being highly dubious what really constitutes their own land ...it is all a myth enforced by their all-powerful IDF.

socratease

Socratease,
I'm not sure what you mean.
The point I was making to Phil that merely supporting two state solution isn't fair to the Palestinians so it's hardly some thing he should shout about.

Albeit fairer than greater Israel i.e. Israel is a place where Arabs are effectively 2nd class citizens and the extreme right wing Israeli Jews are able to currently drive policy power. I see no reason that this wouldn't continue under Jewish extremism is going to change.
In reality there is no way Israel much less a greater Israel is ever going to be a real just/fair democracy given its immigration etc. policies.

If the line is drawn to include the 'occupied' territories then (by world general consensus) Palestine will simply be slave enclaves (sorry client State) dependent on Israel and the whims of the extremes on which the Israeli right depend. That is clearly unfair and not surprisingly unacceptable to the Palestinians, see my analogy.
Therefore supporting this version of the two state is pro Israel.

The solution I suggested as being fairer i.e. enforcing total evacuation of Israelis to inside the pre 1967 borders leaving the buildings and infrastructure is fairer to the Palestinians but won't be acceptable to the Israeli Jews because many will loose their homes etc. All be they fruit of the poison tree. A well established legal principal.

Given the Arabs (and there were Palestinian nationalism at the time) legally 'owned' much of the land the fairest solution is a secular Greater Palestine in which both live (Pilger). Obviously such laws as automatic citizenship to Jews must stop and measures to maintain secular nationhood introduced. These must include expelling Syrian and Iran supported militias etc and including in Lebanon and general disarmourment of the people. However this is while fair it is unrealistic.

Back in the real world the solution will probably be some cobbled together version of 2 states (favouring Israel [US]) and the animosity from extremists on both sides will continue.
Either way it's still hardly Fair to all.

Excellent article Jake.

I can't understand why we are held captive by the Jewish Lobby either. Australians are a fair people who generally support the disadvantaged. Yet many of us simply don't understand the realities of the situation. We believe what we see in the media and hear from our politicians. That's why the Jewish lobby, surely the most well-funded and sophisticated of any lobby, has been so successful with our political parties and media.

There is also a powerful Jewish Lobby in Britain, but in Britain there is a much larger Muslim population which provides a counter-weight to the Jewish Lobby. Britain is also a much larger, older and more confident society than ours. The British were never occupied by the Nazis and so consequently never sent any Jews to concentration camps. In short, the Jews don't have a lot over the British. It was, after all, the British, who decided in principle to give part of someone else's land to the Jews in 1918. So the British can always say, we supported the creation of Israel and don't have a history of persecution like on the continent.

My personal opinion has always been that if you felt guilty after WW2 then you should have offered them Kent or perhaps Bavaria. Perhaps this is why Britain has a stronger moral obligation to help the Palestinians than we do. After all, they did give away someone else's land for crimes committed by a European people.

The British Empire has left the world with many great things but its contribution to the creation of that 'sh___y little country', as so eloquently put by the French ambassador, is not one of them.

Certainly most of us had a heartfelt sympathy for the German Jews as well as a hatred for the Nazis.

But while most of us felt it righteous that the same Jews were allowed to return to Israel their original homeland, our utter foolishness has been to allow such a tiny state to become a most modern atomic power.

Indeed, a viperish little atomic state with not only the capacity to upset Middle East power balances for years to come, but in all truth her growing arrogance alone not fitting her as a Middle East peacemaker.

"I'm most interested in why one-eyed support for Israel is so popular in this country".Simple,the answer is money.
Politicians are only interested in staying in power and the jewish lobby with lots of supportive money holds influence.
The press has a jewish bias for the same reason.
All credit to them for their success but their influence and opinion reaches everywhere and holds sway because of their financial clout and ability to 'buy' government and media influence or alternately remove it if not supported.
Let us not be concerned about how they got their wealth.Good luck to them - the fact is they have it and use it to garner the political and media support and that really is all that matters to this lobby.
Sadly, in this country, who takes any notice of the validity of the Zionist cause or support for the plight of Palestinians against the power and strategic use of money for influence.Some alternatively might call it 'political correctness' Tosh!.