*Keep the wages low so we can compete with offshore companies.*

Now where did I say that Pelican? The real problem here is, lovely
and caring lady that you are, with a huge and generous heart, making
many sensible posts, when it comes to economies and how and
why they function as they do, you don't have the foggiest.

*Society is not just a profit margin or an economy.*

That is easy to say if you have a job with the Govt and are doing
well, as seems to be your situation. Not so good if you really
do want to work extra hours to make a few extra shillings, and
nobody is there to give you a job.

Somehow you seem to think that Australia does not need to compete
in the real world, to pay its bills. So what do you largely have
in the East? An economy based on building ever more houses for
ever more migrants, as you all trade houses with each other.

Now if you want to enforce little jokes like long service leave,
redundany pay, double time and a half or whatever for picking
grapes at night, when wineries are going broke as it is, double
time for picking veggies and fruit on Sundays, these guys are
simply going to say stuff it, and you can import your fruit and
veges, along with everything else.

What we need is a flexible labour force, as business has to be,
for there are no guarantees about next months orders.

Create conditions where business can thrive, more employers, people
starting and developing businesses, means labour is better off.

Its not the cheapest labour that is best for business, but the
unions refuse to acknowledge that, in their one size fits all agenda.

But then you don't care about the economy or jobs, fair enough.
So bring in ever more migrants to build ever more houses, its one
of the few things that Australia is good at

Well Jeff, firstly, I hope you are not like your 'guttless leader' SB who picks a fight then never returns. Please don't take any advice from this 'waste of space'.

Bikesusenofuel,
employers want to maximise profit - that is what they are in the game to do
So, if employees are forever chasing better pays and condition, arn't they in fact doing exactly the same thing, Trying to maximise their profits for their services?


Let's just see what pans out in the next few years but I for one am prepared to state that that the jobs market will head south.

We are about to enter a new period. Many first home buyers have been lured into the market and they are about to feel the pinch of higher interest rates and a weaker jobs market, and you lot think you are clever.

I am about to work sundays myself and sack two staff as the new rates make it not worth my while to employ staff on sundays. It's a pitty, they are more than happy with their pay rates and conditions, but then some people just can't help but interfear with others lives, even if those whos lives are effected were more than happy with things as they were.

Was anyone on this site personally effected by WC?

My staff to will be worse off but hey, you wanted it, now you have it.

But hey, at least you have the GFC to blame.

Yabby
I am a paid contractor and get paid per hour depending on current projects. With recent government cuts, work sometimes dries up here and there but that part-time arrangement suits our situation.

My husband has never worked for the government and has always been in the private sector. We own our house and don't have any debts but we are sensible with money and have simple needs. I have not always worked in the public sector and for a long time worked for private companies and for a short time ran a business, although probably not as fraught with fluctuating markets as those in the wine industry or other agricultural pursuits.

Yabby, you don't have to be an economist to question the health of our profit culture and the extremes to which it has grown.

Logically there has to be incentives for business. We have lost that old "a little bit for me, a little bit for him" value system. More and more it has become everyone one out for themselves. Businesses must factor in the costs of doing business including a fair and equitable industrial relations system. Labour seems to be perceived by some employers as a necessary evil.

I saw this attitude shift first hand and moved out of HR work when the writing was on the wall. HR people became spokespersons for the company and adversarial towards workers, instead of advocating for fair win-win situations. I saw it, could not change it and fled to more worthwhile pursuits.

There are many trained economists who disagree with each other Yabby. Each side perceives the other to not have the foggiest. Fog is in the eye of the beholder. :)

Businesses need to make money. Some will treat staff badly to try and achieve that, others will realise that you don't generally get the best from people who are unhappy.

As a counter to the title of the article it could also be said that "Unions want to undermine workers sense of personal value".

The union movement relies on workers having little or no sense of individual power, united we stand, divided we fall etc. It does not want workers to feel in control of their own careers and choices as they may feel less need to hand over their hard earned's to keep union bosses employed. Some union people really do care, some union battles have been vitally important but much of the modern union movement seems to be more about trying to make people feel that they need unions (and the ALP) than about the welfare of workers.

R0bert

So where's jeff!

Here we go again!

Oh well, I guess 'Jeff' is just another 'gutless union rep', any wonder with the leader he has.

Now I for one reject the statement that employers don't want an award, in fact, an award makes life easy for everyone, it's just that awards (retail) have not taken into consideration modern day working conditions.

Extended shopping hours (QLD till 9pm weekdays) have placed a great deal of presure on small retailers as rather than have to catch the shops before they close, shoppers now can literally come home from work, have dinner, watch a lille TV, then go off and shop anytime before 9pm every weeknight.

The new awards 'FINALLY' recognise this as our 'normal trading hours' and we can now trade for longer without paying penilty rates as previous to this our 'normal hours' ceased at 6pm and for that, I am greatfull.

Now I just have to find staff who will willingly work these hours, but with jobs becomming short, I will have a better chance.

So in response to 'MIA Jeff's' claim that employers are all evil, go F#*k yourself!