Sancho >"You're missing the point, Suzeonline. Any OLO article is an opportunity to harp on a pet issue, no matter how unrelated to the topic"
Yes I see what you mean...lol! I prefer to mainly stick to the topic usually, so maybe I am the one damned to hell!

Phanto >"The fact that we do not understand everything is no cause to resort to the primitive attitudes of religion."

Primitive indeed.
You said everything I really wanted to say.
I will have to go back to the drawing board!

Suzeonline,
As God does not seem incline to reveal himself if, conversely, the top prophets of each major religious faith were to convene for a talk , they would have a jolly good laugh at the gullibility of the humans and merrily return to their respective abodes.

Runner, you are the proof of the impact of religion: hate, narrow mindedness and aggression.
Even though your God himself said "turn the other cheek" and mentioned love a few times...All churches seem hell-bent on disobeying Him!
I reckon the "godless secularists" would be more in God's good books simply because they don't make Him out to be an insane child-like moron.
History reveals that *all* religions are political structures for *power*.
Religion does *not* instil morality, it merely takes credit for the natural morality that humans (and many other animals) are born with.
Why is there a worldwide paedophile protection program in the Catholic churches if they "instil morals". Cloaking oneself in virtue while perverting children is despicable behaviour. Systematically protecting these people is plain evil.
Religion works on "them vs us" model which is precisely why it is *not* appropriate for government. The rise of modern freedoms, science, technology and enlightenment...of which some of us indulge in, is the result of breaking away from the restrictive chains of religion and "boys club" power structures. We have a way to go yet, but science and rationality is our only hope. Regression to animal-like programmed behaviour is what the lazy religious mind is seeking.
It should be of concern that Howard opened the door to religious influence in Australia too. A door that Rudd has not closed. Secret funding and corruption has already been identified, so how do we stop it?

I was in Malaysia recently and at least the religious influence is mostly overt. In Australia the religious crowd sculk around handing over brown paper bags and doing power deals in secret. Private "religious" schools are also allowed to teach our kids utter rubbish in the name of religious freedom. In fact it is more akin to child abuse.
BTW. runner and other religious apologists...
It is God driven ideology that is killing thousands of children in Africa while secular science tries (and to a limited extent succeeds) to save them.
Since Bush introduced the religious approach to sex education STDs have increased markedly, as has under-age pregnancies and drug use. Putting ones opinion forward without evidence and calling it "right" does not mean reality agrees. The relatively small number of aborted foetuses doesn't compare the thousands of ignorance based deaths of real, fully developed humans...not even close. To suggest that it is so demonstrates either extreme moral perversity, or extreme ignorance.
I've even heard some christians spouting "God made us rich and them poor so it is OK to exploit them just as we are intended to exploit the animals in the fields". This sort of repulsive attitude is typical of all religions: Once "them" is defined you can justify any act under the religious mindset. Murder is not murder if done to the "enemy"...and all who do not belong are potential enemies. (Look at the pre-Iraq war drumming and complete indifference to hundreds of thousands of innocent deaths.)
BTW. Buddhism is a different kettle of fish being a godless philosophy. Traditions are often included under the Buddhist umbrella to include Gods and entities but this is culture, not religion. Buddha himself talked about knowing self, knowing reality and achieving happiness and wisdom from within...far from the dogmatic, top down approach of a "religion". This does not make Buddhists automatically virtuous, but it gives them a fighting chance unlike the insanity inspiring contradictions in God based dogma

When religious fundamentalists have overt control or influence over governments, and some of their nonsense is enshrined in law, it is something we should all be concerned about.

The idea that it is okay to enforce one particular belief system such as the loudspeakers in the streets of Malaysia will hold back progression in various ways. The way forward is freedom for people to worship or not worship as they see fit without fear or favour (unless contravening other protections in law).

I wonder if people like runner would prefer to live in a less secular society where one could be beheaded merely for behaving or thinking in a different way.

You might not agree with some of the freedoms or laws of Australian society but you won't be jailed or persecuted for voicing your views. With regards to abortion - you don't have to participate in abortion - it is not illegal to choose not to have an abortion. Abortion is a serious decision for a woman and it is more important that she be given a variety of information and support without judgement.

I can assure you that backyard abortions happen in non-secular countries all the time. An unwed pregnant woman in some nations cannot seek support from her own countrymen through official channels and the only option if she values her life is abortion.

Ozandy writes

'Runner, you are the proof of the impact of religion: hate, narrow mindedness and aggression.'

And you of course as a secularist are proof of love, open mindedness and gentleness. Say nothing self righteousness. Please give me a break from your self delusion. Your narrow minded bigoted views seem to indicate the opposite. You point out the deviants in the catholic church but deny the deviants among your own earth worshipers. The teachings of Christ have done more to reduce child abuse among pagans than any other influence. This is obvious to anyone with a brain. Thge secularist 'freedom' through porn has led to more deviants fiddling with kids than anyone is prepared to admit.