“…is being dangerously (especially for Mr Hu) politicised by the Federal Opposition.”

Dangerously politicised by Australian politicians! I would have thought that China’s action was fairly political in the first place!

“The affair has all the hallmarks of a big police operation anywhere…”

What absolute rubbish. China is not just anywhere. It is a dangerous, totalitarian country demonstrating it chagrin with Australia for not allowing it more access to our mining; it is also very angry because Australia has negotiated a price for coal with South Korea and other countries which is 30% less than previously, when China was looking for a reduction well in access of 40%.

We also have to wonder at Brown’s claim that the Chinese dictators are not fools. It will take only a very small drop in China’s massive growth to put them in queer street. The growth is reliant on the export of very cheap goods, lots of cash, but not much, if any profit. In a very non-capitalist way, the Chinese hierarchy has been handing out money to their party mates for businesses that are falling over, and bad debts are believed to be somewhere between 25% and 40% of GDP. China is heading the way of Japan in the 1980’s.

Unlike proper private enterprise countries, China’s version doesn’t operate to the market. It is still controlled in the Chinese way – among family and friends. In other words, it is operated by the same Communist thugs and dictators who reign using terror.

As for Mr. Hu: well, any Chinese person who has dual citizenship and returns to China to work should know what he could be in for.

Turnbull is a sad dissapointment he needs to go back to where he made his mark , a tolerant place for Smartarses with no microphones .
Rudd needs to lead , Stern is one of his in China , a Representive of our most famous Company . Rudd needs to prove he is more than a expert in Thring , get some courage and robustly support our man in China immediatly .

Leigh,

China needs to be only one-third as productive as the US, to equal the American GDP. Except for the 150 years, China was a major trader. Rome and Victorian England, both had huge trade deficits with China.

If China fully awakes, its presence will be felt. The danger is China like Japan and Germany 1890-1920, is basically has pre-industrial agarian mind tansported too rapidly to modernity. This case is a danagerous circumstance, as Veblen noted c. 1915, of rapidly growing autocratic nations.

Worst case, one should realise that the Pacific Theatre of WWII was not caused by Japan bombing Paul Harbor, rather by the West arresting Japan's growth, by cutting off oil supplies. Pig Iron Bob, then. Iron Ore Kev, now?

Gary,

I have worked in China, Singapore and Hong Kong, where I observed bribery and favouritism. One thing that stopped me from becoming involved (morals aside) was the Chinese saying, "One eye opened and one eye closed". In practise, this means that the Government will have a file on you and will turn a blind eye to wrong deeds, unless it pays to act on a wrongdoing.

If a Western resources company were to pay bribes to oil the machinery, it would not matter, so long as it all was working in favour of the Chinese party. The bad deeds file only comes out when things go wrong and there is retribution to be had.

Guangxi has utility. When the utility is gone, insiders very quicky become outsiders.

During the Great Leap Foward, Mao benchmarked China against Belgium. He was digusted that small European countries were so advanced over China. Likewise, today, being in a subordinate role, with regards to the supply of resources, would create disonance to the Chinese, having midset of seeing themsleves to be nationally superior.

Gary Brown is just another labor party propagandist. He thinks Rudd still has some face left in China!

The Chinese have absolutely decree Rudd is a fool. He's completely lost face. He and his ilk have nowhere left to go in China.

Turnbull is right. The kid gloves need to come off with China. They are at the murcy of a market which must grow at more than 6% pa. If it doesn't do that they go backwards to pre-industrial times with a population now expecting all the benefits of a modern industrial economy.
The Chinese to support their stupid and unworkable system need our iron ore and coal far more than we need their trade. If trade between Australia and China cease sure our economy would be in tatters but we'd still be able to feed ourselves and we'd probably peacefully change governments and things would improve over time.
But what would happen in China. It cannot feed itself and it would face massive civic unrest and a probable revolution.

I think Turnbull is exhibiting old fashioned Australian guts.
Rudd is out of his bureauratic depth and is exhibiting a wishy washy demeanour and pandering to all the leftist drivel merchants like Brown... who are leading his cheer squad.

Our media need to take a lesson from the US media and read some of the reports, in lefty leaning papers there, about Obama. Rudd would be on the same track if it weren't for our bloody disgraceful media.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/17/AR2009071702093.html?wpisrc=newsletter&wpisrc=newsletter&wpisrc=newsletter

Leigh, you being a rightwinger would easily remember the AWB aud$300,000,000 bribe to Saddam Hussein, and when questioned all the Howard follwers said "This is the way business is done overseas".

What goes around comes around!

Keith,can you explain why religous fundamentalists are so extreme rightwing.

Keith agree with your comments.
The Rudd strategy of doing nothing and hoping for a good outcome could end in disaster in this case. Gary Brown is a Rudd apologist who is happy to portray Rudd's inaction as some kind of strategy for dealing with the Chinese.

The tactic of blaming Labour's failures on Malcolm Turnbull has been oddly successful with the media. Brown continues to use this ploy by attempting to set up Malcolm Turnbull as a scapegoat should the case fall over. If it all goes wrong it will be Malcolm's fault!

It has taken the Americans to intervene at a higher level about our own citizen.

I fear the worst for Mr Hu, who Rudd is likely to abandon in the interests of political expediency and future ambition. When it all goes wrong he will point his finger at Turnbull for sure and probably succeed such is the current blind admiration of the voting public.

No Kipp,

can you explain why athiests are so left wing and stupid?

Oliver,

“China needs to be only one-third as productive as the US, to equal the American GDP. Except for the 150 years, China was a major trader. Rome and Victorian England, both had huge trade deficits with China.”
I don’t know how you work that out, but the last time I looked the U.S. GDP was $14.3 trillion to China’s $3.25 trillion. China’s got a long way to catch up, particularly with the enormous debt I mentioned. Even the low 25% of GDP is pretty appalling.

As for your reference to China’s trading, I think we must be reading different history books. China has been isolationist for most of its history in the books I read.

Kipp,

I wasn’t aware that being a right winger had any bearing on my memory, and I do not seen any connection between the AWB scandal and what I said about this subject or China. My point was that China’s brand of free enterprise doesn’t accord with the market approach, as it should; hence, it is not working the way it should, and they will eventually be in big trouble because of low profits and huge debt.

Who said Howard was a right winger? And, who said anything about ‘religious fundamentalists’? I’m not any sort of fundamentalist, and as far as I know, neither is Keith

While Gary's estimate of Turnball, fallowing the collapse of the UteGate crash is probably accurate I differ on:

"But having detained him, the Chinese still need to prove - to a standard acceptable to their major trading partners and foreign investors..."

Gary's assumption is incorrect. China's economic power, particularly as Australia's largest current and future trade partner, give it the political and economic right (and might) to determine Mr Hu's fate. China knows it can do what it likes as its trade partners have nowhere to go.

I think Mr Rudd recognises that China has outgrown Australian or even US pressure. US negotiators promised to bring up the Hu case with China - however this is a miniscule influence on China. China as the largest foreign holder of US Treasury bonds means that China can put economic pressure on the US.

Basically the world, especially Australia, needs China more than ever because China buys things from us. China pays top dollar for our resources and has deep pockets. We are in no position to alter our lucrative trade relationship with China.

China knows this. So Mr Hu, born in China is stuck, until China can coerce Australia to drop the price of iron ore and coal further than Australian intended.

Pete

hell pete seems your archaic needle is stuck in the same old rut on the disc oops record