I had to read through your response a couple of times with my jargon-eliminator, RJohn, to work out whether or not you were agreeing with the system I was describing.

To be honest, I'm still not entirely sure.

But one thing I did notice was that you managed to avoid the topic, which is "could league tables be useful".

Of course it matters how you use the information.

Of course there might be "agendas" at work.

Of course statistics might be maliciously manipulated by those people with those agendas.

Of course there might be politicking at "School, community, Departmental and Government" levels. There always is.

Of course the quality of findings depends on the quality of the evaluator.

>>It would be essential that the peer Principal had the opportunity to recognise any resource issues that needed to be redressed, and community issues that were beyond a School's reach. It would also be important to the success of any such scheme that any recommendations received timely, appropriate responses at Government level.<<

As I tried to point out, in my jargon-free way, "Staff, facilities, support services, all were examined" and "You would at the same time, of course, need to commit to providing such help".

I suspect that you might just be defending the status quo...

>>Education Departments across Australia currently run regular, consultative, external, independent reviews of Schools that involve peer Principals and Departmental staff interacting with School staff, students and the wider community,<<

... on the basis that doing nothing is far easier than working through a few problems.

You come across as a person who is fundamentally fearful of any form of assessment. You'd far prefer simply to list all the system's ills, blame them all on lack of funds, and shrug your shoulders when no-one comes running to throw money at you.

Pericles
“You come across as a person who is fundamentally fearful of any form of assessment. You'd far prefer simply to list all the system's ills, blame them all on lack of funds, and shrug your shoulders when no-one comes running to throw money at you.”

I totally agree. I know quite a few teachers and every single one of them thinks along these lines.

They say that student marks will not improve unless teachers are given more money.

Time after time I have seen how teachers and school principals spend the taxpayer money they are given, and no government should be handing out any more taxpayer money to teachers or to schools until student marks actually improve.

The teachers and schools gets more taxpayer money after they improve student marks, not before.

RJohn,
If you are interested, the type of thing that current students could develop that would be useful for new students could include:-

-The students could develop a set of flash cards that new students could use to learn key terms and equations.
-The students could go through the books in the school library and write out a list of books that they would recommend for new students.
- The students could write out tips on how to do assignments and exams in that subject, or how to study for that subject.
-The students could develop some educational software that new students could use.

The list is rather endless really, and I think that by getting current students to develop something useful for new students would eventually get all students interested in learning.

It would help stop the gradual decline in student marks that is occurring across the country, and it would to stimulate initiative and innovation in students.

It is what the country needs, and the students may not become like their teachers, who produce nothing except demands for more pay, and believe that innovation and initiative involves getting more and more taxpayer money, and then spending every single cent of that money on imports from another country.

Pericles

One reason for my participation, in this blog, is the lack of knowledge of educational systems that has been, at times, displayed in the interactions. My comment is a general one, not directed towards you.

In response to your assessment of myself, I wish to say that, as a teacher within a State School in Australia, I am restricted from making public criticism of my employer, the State Government, and all its agencies.

I find your peer-assessment idea attractive, subject to the qualifications that I mentioned, as you have noted in your response.

Given that School peer-based assessment already occurs, how can we find a way around those qualifications to obtain a useful result?

In this day and age, there are many factors at play in the provision of teaching and learning in Schools.

I would like to see greater improvement in the manner in which all Schools, and their teachers, provide for the needs of their students.

In order to improve, one component of the process must be assessment of all factors relating to the provision of teaching and learning.

As a teacher, I constantly use assessment to assist the development of the students who sit in my classes.

I regularly evaluate the effectiveness of my assessment, and strive to increase its validity.

I work to ensure that my assessment evaluation is passed on to care-givers, and to other people, who can use that evaluation in an effective manner for the benefit of each student.

I am obliged, by my duty of care, to restrict access to that information from those who might use it in a manner that could have a negative impact on the student.

In this regard, I find myself no different from my teaching colleagues.

My concerns with "league-tables" relate to the factors of validity, effectiveness, the manner of dispersement of information, and the issue of content without context.

For the sake of the students, should we do nothing? No.

If we can find a way to bring benefit to students from the current national assessment programs, let's do it, and do it well.

Vanna

I have seen students, every year that I have been teaching, produce resources both digital and physical, that have been used by students over the following years.

I have seen some highly creative work produced by students.

Given the varied options that are available to allow students to participate in their own learning, I have seen work from students that has impressed me with its content and creativity.

My teaching colleagues have also made similar statements.

As teachers, we do not want students to be like us.

Rather teachers want, and work to encourage, students to develop to the maximum of their own unique potential.

Statisticians would tell us that it is important not to draw conclusions from a small sample.

Every year, teachers, that I know, spend thousands of dollars from their own salary to produce resources for student learning, that are not available in the Schools where they teach.

I do not expect that all teachers do this, because their personal situations may limit this level of provision. These teachers make their provision in other ways.

Reading some of these posts, I am waiting for that dreadful next step of suggesting that we should consider talking with our students to gauge their views. Such practices cannot be allowed to take place if we are to maintain our power and simplicity, mediocrity and a lack of progress are to be maintained. The educated have no right to be consulted, just as many a principal never really consults with teachers about school policies, programs, renovations to school buildings...

RJohn,
I would agree that there are students that show initiative and innovation. It is the teachers and the education system that are the problems, and I believe that there are teachers who are doing everything they can possibly do to kill initiative and innovation amongst students.

I have a relative who has been to 3 schools (4 counting pre-school) and every piece of software they have been given to use by a school has been imported, with nothing from Australia.

I have known a senior science teacher who does not use anything from Australia. Everything they use to teach science, from laboratory equipment through to software, has been imported from another country.

So much for innovation and initiative from teachers.

I also am a member of a teachers group (QSITE) and I was a member of a P&C until I resigned because of the reluctance of the school to develop even the most basic risk management systems. I receive 2 sets of educational magazines and several sets of email newsletters and I have never heard of a teacher running a class project to develop something that would be useful for the students next year.

The students might do this of their own accord, but I have never heard of a teacher doing it as a formal class project.

As far as too little money going to the education system, I have known of a major high school that was offered large government grants, but knocked them back.

The reason: -The school had purchased so much already (and for a teacher "purchasing" basically means importing as much as possible from another country at taxpayer’s expense) , that they had run out of storage room. They couldn’t fit anything more into the school, and they had begun to realise that the more they purchase (or import) they greater their ongoing maintenance costs for everything they have purchased (or imported).

Teachers and schools should not be given a single cent more until student marks increase. After student marks increase, then the teachers and the schools are given more money.