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The Forum > Article Comments > Appealing to science in the AGW debate is delusional > Comments

Appealing to science in the AGW debate is delusional : Comments

By John Töns, published 2/7/2009

It seems that the climate change debate highlights some basic shortcomings in the way we understand the notion of scientific objectivity.

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there is little doudt some major media deceptions going on,here is some more of the story revealed
extracted from
http://www.infowars.com/banksters-love-cap-and-trade/

Obama,..who was instrumental in helping set up the Chicago Climate Exchange http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/9629

for his political cronies like Al Gore, who already has a company which he uses to buy carbon credits from himself http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/251232
and the smartest guys in the room
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zMakN-EMLg
who helped concieve this enron scam
http://cei.org/gencon/019,02898.cfm
and the same boys club all ready plundered 12 trillion
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=armOzfkwtCA4&refer=worldwide

and who had made multi-million dollar investments in companies developing carbon tracking software that will be essential to the new carbon-swindle economy.
http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/11607

the entire idea of “cleaning” the atmosphere of carbon dioxide seems a bit ridiculous when you realize that by historical levels we are living in a CO2-starved environment,
http://www.junkscience.com/MSU_Temps/historical_CO2.htm

that global surface temperatures are dropping,
http://www.dailytech.com/Temperature+Monitors+Report+Worldwide+Global+Cooling/article10866.htm

that global ocean temperatures are dropping,
http://exposingtheleft.blogspot.com/2007/09/global-ocean-temperatures-drop-to.html

that key proponents of the manmade global warming theory have been caught faking data to support their arguments,
http://www.prisonplanet.com/ipcc-scientists-caught-producing-false-data-to-push-global-warming.html

that Arctic sea ice is expanding,
http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2008/02/15/arctic-ice.html
and that sea levels are not rising.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/christopherbooker/5067351/Rise-of-sea-levels-is-the-greatest-lie-ever-told.html

But why let actual science get in the way of a good scare story,
http://mediamonarchy.blogspot.com/2009/06/another-bill-congress-didnt-read-coming.html
especially when that scare story can be used to create a new trillion dollar industry for the banksters?
http://zerohedge.blogspot.com/2009/06/goldman-sachs-engineering-every-major.html
Posted by one under god, Monday, 6 July 2009 9:08:17 AM
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Why is it that people like 'One Under God' scour news clips (some very dated) from media shock-jock op-eds or 'denialist' blogsites to proclaim that we are all being conspired against?

OUG, you say; "But why let actual science get in the way of a good scare story"?

Indeed, why not go to the actual science - you know, the stuff that is published in the reputable peer reviewed journals of science?

You appear to be just trolling for stuff in the popular media that supports your own ideological agenda.
Posted by Q&A, Monday, 6 July 2009 9:41:14 AM
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wow a convincing rebuttal of facts...NOT...lol..clearly in the short time of posting you havnt been able to confirm them all

[i hear the high priests of global warming/carbon tax/cap and TRADE their limeted franchise..quoting million year old figures..[with 1000 year gaps in their data...yet somehow that dated/stuff..is relitive..when used by the claimed busines/science classes..and their 50 year window to carbon based/armogeddon

the best you can come with to rebut my points..is its dated..[my stuff is all from this milenium..[recall enron..[who tried to corner the energy market..via clever/deceptive accounting..[recall leighman brothers..getting bail-outs as long back as 70 years ago..[still getting govt bailouts as recently as THIS year]

its said those who dont remember the lessons of the past..are doomed to repeat the same mistakes..[carbon trading was first raised at the first bilderberger meeting..back in the fourties..[also on their adgenda was a common currency for the europeans

[well they..got their fiat euro currency..[and got..their carbon trading..[we seen how that failed there..[we seen how in spain the green jobs cost 3 non-green jobs..

[there is a huge tissue of lies..its roots..lie in our past...im quoting the recent past..[not million year old fictions..you global warming lot..are pulling out of your buttt...lest we forget..there are huge dinosaur finds found in the north pole..

[meaning at one stage there was no ice there..[possably between pole shifts..[a regular cycle..[search magnetic/drift numbers..[that is due arround 2012]...but that old info..for you lot..with your heads in the sand...but we dont talk about..[nor prepare for..a possably/real pole shift

because you carbon tax speculators/nutters are too busy...distracting with your new global big buisness tax..planned to suck trillions out off us tax payers..to give to big busines dudes mentioned in the links

[we could have been preparing for a real threat...but no we follow the adgenda..set by the moneyed elites[see links]..needing their new global-tax...THEIR PEPETUAL..TAX PAYER BAILOUT...direct

read the links
try rebutting what was posted...not what you think was posted
Posted by one under god, Monday, 6 July 2009 10:21:50 AM
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I am constantly amazed and appalled by the strength of opinion that global warming isn't happening and the complete lack of substance behind such opinions. Give me every institution that actually studies climate over these opinionators any day - opinionators who see no real downside to keeping on pumping out GHG's at ever increasing rates (more somehow not resulting in worse) and stick to their scientifically unsupported beliefs that what humanity does can't change the climate! That is so last century. Actually climate science had already knocked that belief off it's pedestal before the end of the 1900's and some la nina's and PDO shift hasn't altered that. It does seem like very this century to imagine all experts (except the few who say what you like) are all wrong in every way and references to mass media and blogs are "evidence".

The last decade - 8 of the 10 hottest years on record (surface air temps), the lowest ice arctic ice extent on record, the highest ocean level on record, the highest ocean heat content on record, the greatest retreat of glacial ice on record ... a decade of cooling is it guys? What a joke. But I'm not lauging - actually dreading the next strong el Nino, when OZ gets it's worst droughts and heatwaves.
Posted by Ken Fabos, Monday, 6 July 2009 10:25:24 AM
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Yes 'One Under God', I have read them - when they first came out (do try and keep up).

As to the rest of your post ... do whatever you need to calm down, maybe pray.

________

Ken

It never ceases to amaze me that people who have no qualified background in science think their unqualified opinions are going to overturn the fundamentals of science or the qualified opinions of the world's science academies.

I'm quite happy to debate the pros/cons, ways and means - of adapting to a changing climate, or to live in a more sustainable way. However, because some people have both their feet and head buried in the sand, it is impossible (therefore pointless) in trying to engage.
Posted by Q&A, Monday, 6 July 2009 11:26:46 AM
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“analysis of Antarctic ice cores show that levels of carbon dioxide and methane in the atmosphere are now higher than they have been for the past 650,000 years while the rate of increase over the past 100 years is greater than at anytime over the past 20,000 years. When we consider that evidence we note that the rate increase over the past 100 years has been keeping pace with our industrialisation one is tempted to the conclusion that there is a link between human activity and current climate change.” No, one isn’t, there are several steps to take before jumping to such a conclusion. For example, is there any evidence for unusual climate behaviour?

In respect of warming, it is clear from Carter et al’s “Due Diligence” paper that current temperatures are within patterns of variation established since the end of the Little Ice Age, that increased greenhouse gas emissions have not led to a measurable deviation from these trends and that temperatures in the last decade are well below those projected by IPCC modelling.

If it were established that there were unexplained changes in climate, we could not assume that human activity was a causative factor without a better understanding of what drives climate and the magnitudes and interactions of various factors. Many scientists with relevant expertise argue that increased outputs of greenhouse gases by humans have only a modest effect, and that the geological record and climate understanding show that there are stabilising effects which maintain the earth’s temperature withing a modest range; there is no evidence for “tipping points” or runaway warming.

I am not aware of any basis for your statement that “future generations will be facing consequences that will be anywhere from mildly uncomfortable to catastrophic.” The BBC has recently reported that “Climate change is shrinking sheep.” No, warmer temperatures in part of Scotland have allowed smaller sheep to survive and breed – a benefit for the breed rather than a catastrophe.

326 words, little hope for the rest of your article, so I’ll leave it here.
Posted by Faustino, Monday, 6 July 2009 2:41:15 PM
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