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The Forum > Article Comments > Costello a loss to nation > Comments

Costello a loss to nation : Comments

By Tony Abbott, published 17/6/2009

Paradoxically, Peter Costello leaving the parliament is his country's loss but his party's gain.

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‘Costello loss to a nation’

Oh pleeeeaaase!!

( : > |
Posted by Ludwig, Wednesday, 17 June 2009 8:38:54 AM
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Oh pfff I muffed it.

I’ll try again…

‘Costello a loss to nation’’

Oh puuullllleeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaase!
Posted by Ludwig, Wednesday, 17 June 2009 8:42:53 AM
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Costello was a beacon of competence in the world of political expedience.

Pity we will all suffer for the next decade from the after effects of the "Swan flu".
Posted by Shadow Minister, Wednesday, 17 June 2009 8:49:58 AM
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If Costello and the liberal party were so great, we wouldn't have the problems of today as anyone with a 1/10th of business brain would have foreseen the collapse because of the unsustainable direction and approach by both sides of the Lab/Lib coalition. Costello didn't run for the leadership because he knew he would end up looking like a fool, mainly because he hasn't got a clue about anything and relied upon fleecing the nation and giving it to his mates and benefactors for credibility. Already Rudd the dud wants to reward him for his compliance to the party line of more for us, less for the people and the planet.

All his budgets were put together by bureaucrats, not him he's a lawyer, just like Howard and Turnbull with no other qualifications or experience in life. We only have to look at the state of the nation over all, to see the outcome of the last 30 years of Lib/lab government to know we've been conned. As for being a beacon of competence, competent at destroying a country rapidly.
Posted by stormbay, Wednesday, 17 June 2009 9:39:09 AM
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Check out the first letter re Costello in the letters section of the Australian today--nothing more needs to be said.
Posted by Ho Hum, Wednesday, 17 June 2009 10:21:54 AM
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Stormbay,

Considering that:
The liberals reduced taxes and paid back the labor deficit,
80% of Krudd's stimulous package is being spent in Labor strongholds,
Every Labor administration has someone caught out fiddling the books or taking "gifts".
Your comment of Costello's fleecing is a little rich.

Once labor really gets its snout into the trough we can expect master pieces such as the lane cove and cross city tunnels on a grand scale.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Wednesday, 17 June 2009 10:24:39 AM
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'A loss to the nation' Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
and from the mad abbott at that. You guys are such a giggle.
Did he pay you for this Tony...or is just on spec?
Posted by Ozymandias, Wednesday, 17 June 2009 10:26:34 AM
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I agree with Ozymandias. Most righteous so called conservatives such as Abbott are really just failed case repressed comedians.
Posted by Ho Hum, Wednesday, 17 June 2009 11:26:33 AM
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Peter Costello was handed 400 billion dollars from the mining boom, and then sold off 250 billion dollars of taxpayers assets,and only 20 billion dollars was left when he lost his job.
Don't think Macquarie bank will be giving him a job!
Posted by Kipp, Wednesday, 17 June 2009 12:06:01 PM
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Tony Abbott it bad from to get your mum to leave comments on bogs for you re shadow minister.

Costello will be remembered as some who never had the ticker to take on Howard.
A dead fish could have managed the Australian economy better then Costello. It's easy to create a surplus by raising taxes and reducing spending in areas where there a no votes to buy.

A find it funny that the right is moaning about labours spending when Howard Costello increased middle class welfare so much while they were in government.
Posted by Kenny, Wednesday, 17 June 2009 1:08:26 PM
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Peter Costello was very lucky to be in office during the mining boom,like all politicians he was quick to claim credit for someone else's work.
Posted by mac, Wednesday, 17 June 2009 1:41:37 PM
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How can the ordinary Australian middle of the road voter agree with this latest of Abbotts quite bigoted writings, as in most of his previous other utterances Tony Abbott has a most one eyed view of life. Costello was a Treasurer, not any better or worse than his predecessors in the job, however his one claim to fame was his complete lack of initiative to put his hand up for the PM's job, when obvious to the general public, John Howard, (but not apparently to Tony Abbott & his ilk) was losing the plot to Kevin 07 Rudd.
This action alone( or should we say non action) will be Costello's only & final public epitaph. By his deeds (or lack of) he will be remembered!
Can I finally say: Good riddance to another failed politician.
Posted by Jack from Bicton, Wednesday, 17 June 2009 2:14:31 PM
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Costello's tragedy was that he was never able to take politics quite seriously enough: unlike the mad buggers such as Rudd and Abbott to whom it is life and death. Unfortunately it is usually the best and sanest party members who suffer from Costello's malady -- there are signs that Julia Gillard, for instance, realises that there is a world outside Parliament House -- and slip quietly away, leaving us with the deluded and deranged.
Posted by Jon J, Wednesday, 17 June 2009 3:23:39 PM
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Peter Costello's biggest challenge is yet to arrive , when Rudd realizes that a severe Depression caused by Profligate Spending cannot be fixed or alleviated by more of the same eg; Profligate Spending then Costello will find himself employed within the Labor Caucus to whom the following instructions delivered by Rudd himself : " I don't care what you do fiscally as long as Peter likes it and if he doesn't you will not get to do anything ! "

Some of the previous posts are well out of tune , elixir for the Ignorant.....thats Politics exaggerated by Footy Team Mentality .

Just imagine their Impudence and Fury if the only way to assault the deficit is to increase the GST to 40% even then it will take 20 yrs to accomplish even a dent as we have from day one been paying ?% on 3000,000,000,000 , now that's awesome !
Posted by ShazBaz001, Wednesday, 17 June 2009 5:24:56 PM
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The arrogance: Politicians are no more talented than average middle managers in government and industry.

If Abbott thought Costello so great, he should have been more vocal against Howard.
Posted by Oliver, Wednesday, 17 June 2009 5:30:51 PM
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This is an interesting political eulogy from Abbott as he would not have voted for Costello had he thrown his hat into the ring to be leader/PM. But he does (as is convention) admit that Costello was naturally positioned to take over from Howard. So maligned was Costello within his own party that Nelson and now Turnbull were able to gracefully ascend. Watch Abbott closely, he’s no mug.
Posted by Rainier, Wednesday, 17 June 2009 6:22:40 PM
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"Tony Abbott is the federal opposition spokesman for families."
Hey Tony,did you write that also. I guess you think your a comic and a deft hand at satire, any chance of not doing it on my money, like the tax payer, and could you please stop err, ah, um, err and etc; when your trying out you act.. Ask George, probably annoys HIM too.
Posted by Lang Mack, Wednesday, 17 June 2009 6:26:12 PM
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Peter Costello has not died, so it's a bit
early to eulogise the man. And, as another
poster pointed out - he was a treasurer during
a "boom," period. I wonder how well he would
be doing under the economic circumstances of
today's financial world. I guess that's something
we'll never know. But his resignation from
Parliament is a pretty good indication of how he
feels.

How could any good person, intelligent
person, who has extensive national and international
experience continue to stay and be held to ransom
in a Party that offers the Nation nothing but
criticisms and blockages of anything constructive that
the Government tries to do. A Party
where politics matter more than the Nation's interest.
No wonder the man decided he's had enough. That at
least shows some nouse.

As for writing Peter Costello off. It's too early to do
that. Our PM has stated that 'Australia needed to properly
harness its talent..." and Peter Costello has indicated that
he is prepared to consider a job that 'assists the
National interest.'

Wouldn't that be something. Our PM recognises the fact that
talent should be above politics - and just may offer Peter
Costello a Government position. That something that John
Howard wouldn't be capable of doing, were he in the PM's
position.

Says a great deal really. As for associating the words -
"Golden Age," with the Liberal Party. Sadly no! The
Liberal Party's place - like so many who put the Party
ahead of the nation and her people in
the past, will be swept on the ash heap of history.
Posted by Foxy, Wednesday, 17 June 2009 8:05:53 PM
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I was particularly struck by this little gem:
"In the end, the Howard government's longevity owed as much to its deputy's forensic skill as to its leader's political savvy."
I would suggest the Howard government's longevity owed as much to the moderating influence of the Australian Democrats, as it did to the resources boom.
No Democrats, no boom, no Howard or Costello.
Posted by Grim, Wednesday, 17 June 2009 9:38:23 PM
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I've just seen two cartoons (I think it was on
newmatilda.com) about Peter Costello that made
me laugh.

1) "Little Peter" is taken by his mum to see a doctor
who declares that "little Peter" has, "Attention Deficit
Disorder." Peter's mum asks the doctor, "What's that?"
The doctor replies - "If he doesn't get attention, he'll
create disorder!"

2)Malcolm Turnbull sitting on one side of the desk asks
Peter Costello, "Well, are you ready to be the Shadow
Treasurer?" To which Peter Costello replies with a smile,
"No, I prefer being the Shadow!"
Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 18 June 2009 4:08:39 PM
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Stormbay at 3

Considering that the world bank think Australia's economy is one of the best in the world, how do you came to the conclusion that both Labor and Liberal had fail.

As for the Global Financial Crisis.... how did Costello fail? The GFC are caused by banks investing in bad loans and causing them to fail and require government intervention. It is happening all over the world except .... in AUSTRALIA.

The big 4 in Australia is recording massive profits, they are able to led to business and individuals at the moment, we have none of the problems of the US/Europe, where governments are forced to nationalise banks

The problem in Australia was Consumer was not able to spend! That was not Costello's problem
Posted by dovif2, Thursday, 18 June 2009 4:41:32 PM
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Kipp

So many people said that the Liberals were lucky because of the Mining boom. These people have no clue.

The price of BHP shares in July 2003 was $8, BHP was hardly profitable in 2003, the mining boom happened in 2004-2008, ie at the end of the Liberal government

The unemployment rate, interest rate was fixed by 2003. foriegn debt had all been repaid by 2003.

To say all these was caused by the mining boom is ridiculous.
Posted by dovif2, Thursday, 18 June 2009 4:50:21 PM
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The foreign debt of the Costello economy went
up to around the highest per capita in the world.

Same with household debt and business debt.

China Minerals boom!

Industrial-relations!

Oh what a legacy!
Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 18 June 2009 9:38:42 PM
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*The foreign debt of the Costello economy went
up to around the highest per capita in the world.
Same with household debt and business debt.*

Ah, so when the Mrs Foxys of this world, feeling
confidant about the economy, max out on their credit
cards and splurge on more expensive houses etc,
when things go pear shaped for them, they simply
blame the Govt!

Now there is some good old female logic for you :)
Posted by Yabby, Friday, 19 June 2009 9:43:38 AM
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Dear Yabby,

You really shouldn't
speak on behalf of today's women.

Let me set the record straight for you.
Today women work, while raising families,
studying (post grad. qualifications), and
in partnership with their husbands, surround
their children with a sturdy sensibility, a
world view, different from the 'Me' mentality
of modern culture.

When they use their credit cards they have their own incomes
to pay for their own expenditures, as well as being
able to contribute to the family's financial needs,
such as paying off mortgages, their children's educations,
and other expenses that come up. Women take responsibility
for their actions and they therefore expect accountability
from the actions of their elected Representatives in
Government.

As a poster said on the 'newmatilda.com' website:

"I am so sick of people heaping praise on Costello as
the world's greatest treasurer because he ran a budget
surplus. The truth is he overtaxed us! And what he took
from us wage-earners he gave to the rich and called it
a tax concession."

And another poster on the same website stated:

"...Costellos' debt truck in 1996 was about foreign
debt which stood at $192 billion, it became $650 billion
in the next few years. Debt to disposable income in 1996
was 69% of GDP, it was 160% by the time the Liberals
left and has only fallen slightly to 155% since.

We are and have been swimming in debt for a decade and
Costello didn't notice..."
Posted by Foxy, Friday, 19 June 2009 8:35:01 PM
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*We are and have been swimming in debt for a decade and
Costello didn't notice..."*

Ah but he did notice. He noticed like I did, that it was not
his created debt, which taxpayers would be forced to cough up for,
but your maxed our credit cards, your bigger houses, your living it
up, you as individuals, women and all.

That debt is not Australia's debt, but individual Australians
debts. Ordinary Aussies, living it up to the max.

Don't blame the treasurer for your bad habits.

*what he took
from us wage-earners he gave to the rich and called it
a tax concession."*

like what?

*Women take responsibility
for their actions and they therefore expect accountability
from the actions of their elected Representatives in
Government.*

Costello left the Govt debt free, so was fully accountable.
Hopefully women will now repay those maxed out credit cards,
for they are part of that debt that Australians owe to overseas
lenders.
Posted by Yabby, Friday, 19 June 2009 9:07:56 PM
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The mining was largely facilitated by the relaxation of the inflexible IR laws under labor. This is why the mining boom started much earlier in other countries, bu only after the liberals came in in Australia.

As dovif2 pointed out, the issues that caused the GFC did not occur in Aus and as a result of the liberal leadership that curbed debt (Which Krudd is rapidly reversing), the state is much more able to ride out the crisis.
Posted by Democritus, Saturday, 20 June 2009 7:14:56 AM
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Dear Yabby,

Like what?

As I've told you in several previous posts -
and you can refer to the websites I've
quoted from 'newmatilda.com.'
Peter Costello, "...used the windfall gains of
the mining and terms-of-trade boom of the 2000s
to fund tax cuts, leaving infrastructure investment
and essential human services like health and
education to wither on the vine. When the economy
turned, so did the federal budget, and those
surpluses melted away. As Treasury research eventually
showed. Costello in fact ran structural deficits for
the last few years of his reign..."

And to continue with your "like what?" question...
"...under Costello's watch, capital was taxed far more
lightly than labour, and the rich gained disproportionate
benefits in comparison to the poor.

To take one example, his decision to give a 50 per cent
discount on capital gains tax to investments is an
illuminating contrast to the punitive marginal tax rates
faced by low-income earners trying to combine government
benefits with part-time jobs..."

And, by the way, my credit cards are always paid up
in full, on time, and my house mortgage was paid off
a long time ago. So sorry, you're barking up the wrong
tree here.
Posted by Foxy, Saturday, 20 June 2009 10:08:03 AM
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Foxy, the mining boom really got going in around 2004. Costello
had been paying off our debts for years. When it happened, he
put additional money away to pay all those public service pensions
in the future, a wise move.

So Australian taxpayers are better off then those in Britain,
France, Germany, Italy, Japan, Spain, USA etc. Read the latest
Economist. That did not happen by magic, it happened because
he showed good judgment and fiscal discipline. But that is clearly
beyond the comprehension of bleeding hearts like yourself.

*To take one example, his decision to give a 50 per cent
discount on capital gains tax to investments*

I've explained why that happened, it is not a subsidy, but a
replacement for indexation to inflation, which Keating introduced.
When you invest 1000$, in ten years it has lost 50% of its real
value. I personally would probably be better off under the old
Keating calculation, which was fair, but a bit more complex to
calculate. The people who pay no CGT at all are homeowners.
If your house is revalued to 1 million$, even if you paid 50 grand
for it years ago, you pay no tax at all. THAT is a subsidy!

*my credit cards are always paid up
in full, on time, and my house mortgage was paid off
a long time ago*

You missed my point completely. There are millions of Foxies out
there, living in suburbia. Take a look at who owes money. Its Mr
and Mrs Average, its young gen x and y, living it up on their
credit cards, or uptrading their houses, or buying investment houses
for their retirement. A great many Australians are saving nothing
and spending far more then they earn.

That has nothing to do with the treasurer. He left our Govt coffers
in great health and that was his job
Posted by Yabby, Saturday, 20 June 2009 3:10:55 PM
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Yes we can all sleep easy that Costello left our coffers in good health.

Pity about the health system and the scandalous attack on the lowest income earners via Work Choices. The lack of money spent on failing infrastructure due to overpopulated cities, AWB, the "never ever" GST, children overboard, children in detention, failure to declare Work Choices prior to election, ignoring pensioners etal are hardly the hallmark of responsible and transparent governments.

Costello is not a loss to a nation, it would take a rare politician to earn such accolades. Costello is not one of them.
Posted by pelican, Saturday, 20 June 2009 6:58:57 PM
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Despite all those years when it was "raining gold bars", he never built a single bit of infrastructure (preferring to hand out "sandwich and a milkshake tax cuts), he created a huge middle-class welfare system while screwing over the pensioners with the GST, left an economy with a structural deficit, sold Telstra to fund politicians Superannuation (which he neglected to fund for years) and flogged off everything that wasn't bolted down (as well as most of our gold reserves at bargain prices).

Paying off government debt by increasing the tax grab, slashing services and selling assets isn't exactly rocket science is it?

Some legacy.
Posted by wobbles, Monday, 22 June 2009 2:15:19 AM
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I see many cases of selective memory.

From what I recall, the taxes are far lower than they were under the previous labor gov.

The state governments insisted on retaining the responsibility for infrastructure projects, and the revenue intended for it. The only state gov that spent anywhere near the budget on infrastructure was the liberal gov in Victoria. The other state governments squandered boom time income on jobs for mates and a bloated inefficient administration.

I also recall that it was the NSW labor that sold off the Snowy mountain scheme and is planning to sell off the power generation.

The balance of payments debt that exists is to fund bank loans to the biggest private infrastructure expansion in the history of the country, that as Democritus points out is largely due to the relaxation of the oppresive IR legislation of the labor goverment.

Finally, the banking regulation has ensured that none of our financial institutions have suffered as under the British labor government.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Monday, 22 June 2009 8:38:08 AM
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<“From what I recall, the taxes are far lower than they were under the previous labor gov.”>

I doubt that, tax across the board increased by at least 10% with the introduction of the GST. It was introduced on the promise many state and federal taxes would be removed to compensate for the GST. That never happened, under Costello, the lowest paid in the country hold the biggest burden of tax. Those in the worst conditions, earning little money and having to obtain social security benefits are slugged with up to 85% tax on any earnings by way of reduction in support. Making it not worthwhile people working at all, unless they can get a job giving them hours and rates they need to survive. Under Costello, more part time casuals and temporary jobs were created whilst full time jobs have collapsed. Under Costello we've lost the majority of our manufacturing and commodity markets,. Under Costello we saw the corruption of the wheat board and many others are coming out of the wood work, including reserve bank dealings.

It matters not who's in power, Lab/Lib, they are one and the same, same policies and outcomes, disaster. Many politicians apply for pre-election for both parties, Malcolm Turnbull is the most prominent at the moment. Anyone with half a brain would see our present single party two faction l system has failed. Income tax rates also increased every year with bracket creep and alterations to the tax regime This effects lower paid most, who are hit with every tax there is and unlike elitists, they can't claim the myriad of deductions, perks and allowances elitists can.

Argue all you like about which faction is the best liar, cheat and corrupt users of the public purse. Neither are capable of taking the country into a positive future, especially economically and they've destroyed everything else, but their rich mates wealth.
Posted by stormbay, Monday, 22 June 2009 10:14:07 AM
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Not to forget that labor introduced the following taxes:

PPS,
CGT,
FBT,
Medicare levy,

The libs dropped marginal tax from 47% to 42%, and company tax from 37% to 30%. (where most super funds make their profits).

As Stormbay pointed out, the GST was introduced to compensate the states for dropping their taxes on labor and housing which the labor state governments subsequently reneged on.

As GST does not cover rentals, school fees, some food etc, it is not a 10% across the board increase.

I personally am paying significantly smaller proportion tax than before 1996.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Monday, 22 June 2009 11:53:28 AM
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Wobbles, when the economy was running at peak employment, where are we supposed to get labour for infrastructure projects? Private sector? India? Most infrastructure project are done during times of Unemployment, ie Keating left the economy, or now, under Rudd, please ask rudd the same

Foxy, some debt is from credit cards, a lot of the debt is from home ownership. People borrow to build their house, so as long as they have the house and it has not decreased in value, they are just paying off a house over 10/15/20/25 years. This has been done under every Labor and Liberal government in history, the only difference is that over the last 10 years, more people can afford to pay a mortgage and there more people are buying their own place, rather than renting and relying on the government. The borrowing had mainly been spend on housing, which is far better than Kevin Rudd’s hand out to buy Plasma TV

Pelican, attack on the lowest paid? Unemployment rate under Costello 2%, unemployment rate now 5%, under Costello, at least the lowest paid had jobs, they are not depressed and on the unemployment queue like they are now.

Pelican “Pity about the health system?” In case you are still in the dark, health is a state issue, ie NSW hospital has no money for supplies, that is the fault of Macquarie St. So if you want to lay blame, lay it on the correct people. If you are talking about funding of hospital, Costello introduced the Health care rebate, so people can afford private health insurance, and the pressure are not on the poorly funded hospital of the States. This funding is about to be withdrawn by Kevin Rudd, if you care so much about Health funding, please direct your queries to Mr Rudd and your state government

Stormbay: Idoubt that, tax across the board increased by at least 10% with the introduction of the GST. It was introduced on the promise many state and federal taxes would be removed to compensate for the GST. That never happened
Posted by dovif2, Monday, 22 June 2009 1:29:10 PM
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Storm bay, you are 100% correct, all the states agreed to cut all state taxes, Stamp duty, payroll tax, land tax ect, within 5 years of the GST, they then went back on their promise, despite the GST revenue being over 20% higher than expected. You should definitely ask your state government why
Posted by dovif2, Monday, 22 June 2009 1:31:47 PM
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Let's not forget the new UTE tax!

(Utility vehicle To Encourage contracts tax)
Posted by Democritus, Monday, 22 June 2009 2:40:59 PM
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*Those in the worst conditions, earning little money and having to obtain social security benefits are slugged with up to 85% tax on any earnings by way of reduction in support.*

Err not so. They pay no tax on the first 6k$, then 15% on anything
up to 34k$, just like anyone else.

If you are saying that some find it easier to milk the Govt welfare
system rather then get off their butts and earn their own money,
yup many do. That leaves less money for pensioners, hospitals and
all the rest.

But you are correct, some find its not worthwhile earning their
own money, if its easier to screw the generous taxpayer. We can
stay in bed, watch the morning show or go surfing, for as you
say "its not worthwhile" to provide for ourselves. All pretty
sad really.
Posted by Yabby, Monday, 22 June 2009 3:07:57 PM
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Shadow Minister,
My memory is not so selective as you may think.

The Snowy Hydro wasn’t actually sold.
Howard (who was very keen to quietly sell the Federal Government’s 13% share while NSW and Victoria took all the political heat) needed to secure the Governor General’s permission so any sale would have been illegal. To challenge this would have drawn attention to himself so he backed down and the States had to follow.

The sale of NSW electricity was only stopped by O’Farrell because he wants to sell it himself on his own terms. He simply doesn’t want Reese to have a cashed-up war chest for the next election.

You may be paying a lower rate of income tax but about 10% of the (already taxed) money you are carrying in your wallet and bank account is actually uncollected GST so you may not be quite so well off as you suspect. (Unless you plan to never spend the money).

The overall federal tax revenue increased from $123 billion in 1996 to $235 billion in 2007. That’s not all down to economic growth. If we are all individually paying less tax, it must be coming from somewhere.

Costello’s overall change in the tax mix (a growing dependency on Company tax) plus those vote-buying middle-class handouts were being funded by the resources boom and that’s the main reason we’re facing such as drastic a collapse in revenue now.

Also, a lot of the public hospital problems stem from previous Federal budget cuts in their agreed share of funding (which was separate from the GST agreement) as well as increased pressure due to funding cuts in bulk-billing and aged care facilities, both of which place huge demands on the public system. Paying subsidies to the private insurance sector don’t provide as much relief to the public sector as much as it simply increases private sector profits. It may help with the queue for facelifts but does nothing for the growing numbers in the Emergency Ward or the sick elderly with nowhere to go.
Posted by wobbles, Monday, 22 June 2009 4:05:08 PM
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Yabby, I deal with unemployed people in my work, once they earn $31 a week, their newstart allowance reduces by 50 cents in the dollar. Above $125 a week, it reduces at 60 cents in the dollar of your gross income. Considering people have to pay rent, food, transport and all the other things involved with working, it makes it very hard for them to survive in the work force. It's only a very few who don't want to work, but since the Lab/lib coalition sent most jobs overseas, work within the area you can afford to live in, is very scarce.

As for unemployment, it's a farce they use figures produced by the BOS, which is determined by ringing a few people in certain demographics to get a picture of the situation. They refuse to calculate unemployment with centrelink payments, which shows we have almost a 3rd of our population who could work and hidden under various guises and payment schemes, because there littel real work except in a couple of areas. I spend a lot of time in rural area's, the amount of hidden unemployment is horrendous and all the fault of the Lab/lib incompetency.

Costello is a backer of reducing company tax and raising the GST, now that's about as smart as jumping of a cliff. They seem to forget you can only have economic growth by consumption, if you make the burden to big for consumers, they stop spending as we are seeing. The best way to grow economies is to reduce the burden on the consumer so they have more disposable income, instead of less. To do that you have to change the system so it represents income growth through sustainable technological advancements, economic stability and sustainability. Economic growth is unsustainable for anything but the very short term, a good treasurer, would plan for that rather than create the opposite, as Costello did and Swan will continue doing.

I can't understand why people support these complete fools, but denial does go with ideological fallacies I suppose.
Posted by stormbay, Monday, 22 June 2009 4:52:31 PM
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*Considering people have to pay rent, food, transport and all the other things involved with working*

Stormbay, people pay the same rent and food, if they are working
or not. Many say that they want to work, but have you ever tried
to employ them? Unless you are offering cash, few are interested.

The electorate made its decision. If a job hasn't got bells and
whistles provided, they don't want it. They voted down work choices,
fair enough, so many small time employers, who hire huge numbers
of people, simply won't bother employing them. Let the community
learn the hard way.

Next they will be running Govt deficits to finance job creation
schemes etc.

Funny that the meat industry never could find Australians who
wanted the work. Without 457 workers, they would have been totally
stuffed. Aussies want cushy jobs, not in meatworks or picking
fruit etc.

The problem Stormbay, is that too many Aussies have had life on
a plate and now expect it on a plate.
Posted by Yabby, Monday, 22 June 2009 8:21:44 PM
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Yabby,

In the US, they now consider jobs in abattoirs work that "Americans won't do", just as you do here, but before the immigration laws were relaxed and there was a big influx of foreign workers prepared to accept low wages, Americans used to line up for these jobs. See Roy Beck's testimony to Congress

http://www.daveschultheis.com/Files/Consequencesguestworker.pdf

"Perhaps nowhere is the role of foreign labor importation in collapsing an occupation more vivid than the meatpacking industry. Numerous studies have detailed how jobs in this industry by the 1970s were high-middle-class industrial jobs with great safety protections and benefits that allowed the employees to raise families on one income, take vacations and send children to college (many of whom came back to work in the plants because of the high income).9

Today, after 25 years of pouring foreign workers into the occupation, nearly every journalist and politician commenting on these jobs calls them “jobs that Americans won’t do” because the pay is so low that taxpayers have to provide public assistance to many of them, and the accident rate is among the worst in the nation."

Dare I suggest that there ought to be decent pay and safety conditions for hard, dangerous essential jobs, even if the rest of us have to do without a few consumer trinkets?

Back to the topic - 50 years from now, no one is going to care about what proportion of the population had plasma televisions in 2007. They are going to care a lot about what Costello and his friends in the Labor and Liberal wings of the Property Party did to the environment. Here Canada is compared to 17 other countries, including Australia, for detailed environmental performance. Australia ranks 2nd last.

http://www.conferenceboard.ca/hcp/details/environment.aspx#context
Posted by Divergence, Wednesday, 24 June 2009 10:39:06 AM
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The question should be asked "are we better off after 11 years of Costello or not"

- Inflation down
- Interest rates down
- Unemployment down
- Gov debt turned to surplus
- per capita income nearly doubled in real terms

After a year of labor how do we fare against the same measures? "are we better off?" I'm not.

The economy was so strong that we could afford the expense of a feel good labor gov, but not for long. It looks like they intend to rack up as debt in 2 years as it took them a decade to do previously.

How long before we are all suffering from the Swann flu?
Posted by Shadow Minister, Wednesday, 24 June 2009 1:07:18 PM
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Divergence, interesting post. I remind you that a great deal of
the meat which we produce, is exported to the third world. Should
they cough up more, so that meatworkers earn 80K$ instead of
50k$?

As to your Canadian URl, I have serious problems with it and the
way things are evaluated. Yes we've had a number of species
extinctions in Australia, it was Europeans who introduced rabbits,
foxes and cats after all. That has little to do with present
environmental situations.

Judging agriculture by the amount of organic farming is a pretty
poor way to judge an industry. Things like no till farming in
Australia, are in fact going ahead in leaps and bounds, far less
damaging to the environment then organic farming.

Fishing sustainability was another amusing one. In WA, which makes
up a big chunk of our coast, huge efforts are put in, to make sure
that stocks are not overfished. The Europeans which your URL
quotes, found another solution. They simply go to Africa etc and steal
their fish. Hardly sustainable.

So your source might be a little questionable and certainly biased.
Posted by Yabby, Wednesday, 24 June 2009 3:05:13 PM
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Yabby,

Poor Third World people eat very little meat. I suspect that most of what we sell goes to the middle and upper classes. We just have to disagree on whether to put the welfare of meatworkers ahead of export earnings. Personally, I would prefer to live in an Australia that had the relative equality and social cohesion of Finland rather than having a higher GNP in a country that looks more like Brazil. In any case, meat was quite affordable in the US when meatworkers were earning those high wages, judging by how much was consumed.

On the Canadian URL, there are always going to be arguments about choice of indicators. I agree with you about the organic farming. Australia actually ranked quite highly, a B, for threatened species, which can't be based on what the early settlers did. The fisheries indicator was also a B until after 2000, when it dropped to a D. Management may well be better in WA than elsewhere. The Marine Trophic Index measures change in marine productivity, which is quite reasonable, although, as you say, it doesn't capture the disgraceful behaviour of the EU in Africa.
Posted by Divergence, Wednesday, 24 June 2009 4:45:45 PM
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Shadow Minister

"are we better off after 11 years of Costello or not"?

He and Howard entrenched the continuous expansion economic model for another ~twelve years, when it was patently obvious by the mid 90s that it had to be progressively wound back. They palmed the transition off of continuous rapid expansionism and onto a dynamic steady-state economy, stable population and an overall paradigm of sustainability to the next government, which was grossly irresponsible.

Costello committed the taxpayer to supporting an artificially boosted birthrate, along with a ridiculously high immigration rate, which was precisely the opposite of what we needed.

He told an incredible blatant porky to the Australian people; that births weren’t keeping up with deaths, and repeated it many times.

Would we have been better off if we’d dumped the Howard government after its first term? Probably not. Labor is no better. But that doesn’t excuse Costello from not only going along with the absurdity of rapid continuous expansionism but of going out of his way to boost it.
Posted by Ludwig, Wednesday, 24 June 2009 9:09:31 PM
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*I suspect that most of what we sell goes to the middle and upper classes.*

That depends on what it is, little is wasted. Tripe, hearts, livers,
tongues, kidneys, cheap mutton cuts etc, all is sold largely to
the third world.

*Personally, I would prefer to live in an Australia that had the relative equality and social cohesion of Finland *

What meatworkers earn here, would still be considered a good wage
in Finland in seems. Globally, we are simply a very high wage
country. Many Aussies have had it so good, they don't want so
called crappy jobs.

http://www.stat.fi/tup/suoluk/suoluk_palkat_en.html

*Management may well be better in WA than elsewhere*

Well its is, because its all within one State. Over East,
four states seemingly keep squabbling between themselves about
whose fish are really whose. There is also a lower population.
Our main problem is overseas trawlers out to sea, taking the lot.
Posted by Yabby, Wednesday, 24 June 2009 9:35:50 PM
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Ludwig,

I cannot find the particular quote you are referring to, but I can see many quotes on the changing demographics and the consequences to the economy.

These comments are echoed by the national statistics.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Thursday, 25 June 2009 8:25:24 AM
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