Grim, I like the idea of limiting the number of terms a politican can serve.

Base pay on performance. What are the KPI's?

How many lies are told without taking a breath?

Antonios Symeonakis, the Labor party has become a capitalist party, but pretends to be socialistic.

During perhaps the most posperous time in Australia, where has the money gone?

Where was the investment in infrastructure?

Responsibility for roads were sold to private companies, public schools have been allowed to deteriorate from years of neglect, whilst private schools are doing very well from government handouts.

Given the fact that there has been an unprecident boom in immigration, where are the new hospitals to cope with the increasing population?

Just think of all those retiring politicans on taxpayer funded welfare, welfare which is tax exempt.

Where does the funding for the worlds most generous retirement scheme come from?

Grim
I wrote something about democrats in the other thread as an answer to your call to become member of democrats. my email is asymeonakis@hotmail.com, write to me!
If politicians are good and people like them then I do not understand why we must limit their time as MPs. Experiences in parliament etc are not bad if MPs are honest and serve people's and australian's interests.

JamesH
I love the labour party because they are champions in hypocricy! but I wrote for labours not for ALP and I MEAN LABOURS +FARMERS+SMALL BUSINESSMEN+ PLUS JOUNG PEOPLE+ PLUS AGED PEOPLE +, +ETC.
I mean all people with low income who can not become MP because withought salary they and their families will die from hangry!
JamesH withouht salary only from the top 15% of australians could become MPs!
DO YOU WANT, DO YOU TRY TO BLOCK THE RIGHT TO BE ELECTED MP FOR THE 75% OF OUR POPULATION?
I do not understand why you did not suggest to abandon the elections, to save even more money!
What if the MPs appoindet from employer's associations? We will not have to pay them and we will save the money from the elections!
Are joking JamesH? We try to extend and deepen our democracy and you try to block the low income australians to become MPs?
Antonios Symeonakis
Adelaide

If wages were set by the electorate, then the wage must be just high enough to induce better candidates to run for office, thus ensuring that the extra surplus that candidate generates goes to the voters.

However, the wage is set by politicians themselves rather than by the electorate.

This means that there is a disproportionate spread of responsibility given to some candidates who preside of large electorates versus those with smaller populations.

Factor in overlaps in responsibility for good and services, legislation and policy, within electorates between the three levels of government and it becomes even more complicated.

Millionaire / silver tail politicians such as Turnbull and Rudd who have no real need for the wages they get - make a mockery out of our system of democracy - a system that espouses that those elected will come from and are able to represent "the people".

Neither of these two politicians would have anything to do with working class people if they were not elected representatives put up by political parties that purport to know what is best for all.

The current system of representative government(s) needs to be overhauled big time

Politicians are not highly paid. Departmental Heads get a lot more - usually double or more. In large departments there will be maybe a dozen who get paid more than their ministers. I would class ministers as being underpaid, relative to their private industry counterparts (who are definitely overpaid).

The work of a front bench politician is difficult - it requires skills. While most noted politicians have very good verbal skills, and are hard working, they often lose out in the area of decision making skills. We are increasingly seeing politicians with a lack of common sense, which in my opinion is simply a reflection of same in society generally (sense goes out the window in good times, and believe it or not we'd have good times for 20 years. Isn't it hilarious how we have been lead into working longer hours during these good times - clearly the media influences people in ways that supports the interests of the wealthy).

While paying pollies extra will attract some folk who would be better than the current lot, I doubt it would achieve much over the long term. In fact I suspect it would be a negative. I suspect corruption would increase. Firstly, it would attract materialistically selfish people out for the money, who will side with business. Secondly, due to the very wealth that the pollies would have, they would mix more and more with the wealthy people in business- they would start to adopt the crude snobbish egotism of wealthy people and be lead into creating policies that provide these people with guaranteed incomes. They would think of themselves as being a class above and beyond the need to justify their actions.

cont.

These factors already exist in pollies to a very high degree, but going further down that track would make it even worse - it would be like having two of the totally corrupt US style Republican parties running Australia. At least nowadays, the Federal Labor party has to at least give the appearance of making policies for the whole population, and this restraint means that they sometimes do.

The difference between the two parties is minimal. On one side you have the Liberal Capitalist Technocrats (relax laws to let big business and liberalists set all the rules for the masses) and on the other you have the Labor Collectivist Technocrats (create more and more laws, so that our individual lives are managed almost totally, but consort with and use big business to put these centralist constraints into practice).

A technocrat is just overly confident semi-bright young things, with almost no aptitude for lateral thinking and a high level of egotism. It is these types that have been in the process of ruining NSW government over the last 10 years (a lot of them have been put into senior departmental positions), and worldwide are a major cause of the Global Financial Crisis (which is still only just starting - not finishing). These technocrats create schemes that require departments to use big business for solutions - solutions that appear cost effective at first but ultimately are more expensive. Privatisation/Outsourcing is like long term leasing - you take the benefit now but the real total ongoing costs keep increasing.

Your council rates are increasing for three main reasons - poor management, heeding the media/lobbyists, and outsourcing. If pollies would concentrate more on good management, learn to ignore the media (it's all just sensationalisation nowadays), and keep technocrats away from running departments or advising on policies, then your government taxes would be about 20% less and would not be increasing above CPI - in which case they would then deserve a pay increase.

It would be worth twice what we pay our Pollies, if they took their job seriously, and were jealous to ensure that when they make a law, the lawyers carry it out, to the letter. A case in point is the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights. It was passed in 1986, got the Royal assent in December of that year, but not one court has upheld its provisions, and not one politician has ever raised a matter of privilege about it in either House.

The Orders of the Parliament of the Commonwealth are expressed in Acts of Parliament. It is a court of law, and we as the public should be entitled to expect when they make a law, it will be upheld. We could easily pay them twice what we do, if they were diligent to ensure when they actually work, that their handiwork, is not made for nothing, by unelected public officials, many of whom are taking home twice what they are, and paying no taxes.

Perhaps they should get a bonus, every time a Public Servant is cited for contempt and fined, in the Parliament of the Commonwealth, for failing to uphold a law made by their efforts. The entire High Court in place in 2004 should be cited for contempt, because they have deliberately contradicted the will of the Parliament of the Commonwealth. S 33 High Court of Australia Act 1979 says the Queen’s name should be on all process issued out of the High Court. It is on none. High Court Rules 2004. They can cite anyone for contempt, and call them before either House. Once cited work stops in the House until the contempt is dealt with. There are four on the High court who took no part in that imfamy.

Yep they should deliver and be paid at least as much as a High Court Justice, if they do the same work, and deliver justice to us, the hard trodden working folk of the Commonwealth. A High Court Justice gets $7000 a week to treat all and sundry with contempt.