The only certainty in this whole debate is that no-one knows in spite of the certainty expressed by both side. Some time in the future we will know and if ONO is still around (if the human race is still around) I am certain the argument will switch to whose fault it was with everyone saying 'it wasn't me'.
It has been that way for 6500 years and I see no sign of change.

“Some are of course, like Ian Plimer and Q&A who are geologists”

Spindoc

If you wish to practise your contemptible trickery, go some place else but before you do, please provide evidence to support your slippery claim that Q&A is a geologist.

“Q&A then presents his credentials as better than those of Plimer and finishes with the suggestion that Plimer has << done a disservice to science and to the community at large >>”

Such underhanded and unprincipled behaviour on your part Spindoc ( manipulating information and misquoting another poster to benefit your slimy agenda) will earn you a place in the hall of infamy at the NIPCC and the Heartland Institute. That’s what they thrive on - sycophantic parasites like you to spread lies and skulduggery .

“Mememine69 is expressing significant frustration that appears to be on the increase in the public domain.”

Yes true Spindoc and he’s also also spreading lies but the ethical members in the public domain are becoming frustrated by the deceit spread by whackos like Mememine and yourself. Sadly, you both underestimate the public’s intelligence. Scaring the kids, says the whacko? I certainly wouldn’t want mememine anywhere near my kids – what a freak!

“Put the money where the mouth is.”

We’re waiting Spindoc but what about first offering an apology to the poster, Q&A?

The first I remember was, "Reds under the bed," then I missed a couple. Then it was the "Ozone Layer." Now it's Global warming." Untill that wears out it's welcome or people get bored with it, because it didn't happen "NOW." There will always be something to scare gullible people with, and by people who will make money out of the scare tactics.

I got a mate who is afraid of the 2 o'clock vapor trails everyday. He thinks that the Yanks are dropping poisonous gas on us. I can't convince him otherwise.

I wonder how you warmests happened to miss the evidence that the hotest year was 1932, & 3 of the hottest years of the 20Th cent were in the 30s.

However if you want concenses, try the Global Warming Petition Project.

31478 American scientists signed this petition, including
9029 PhDs. This states that they can see no evidence that any greenhouse gas, [including CO2] is likely to cause any catastrophic global warmingn. They also state that there is much evidence that increases in atmospheric CO2 has many benefits for the natural plant, & animal environment.

As you can see my consensus is bigger than yours na na.

Kalin1

Over the timescales you are looking at we can say the planet is in a cooling phase, it will experience another ice age (in about 30k). If you increase the resolution, you will see many spikes and troughs caused by the natural drivers of climate change. However, if you remove GHG’s as a significant (but not only) forcing, no other mechanism can explain the warming that the planet has experienced over the last 200 yrs. Not Milankovitch Cycles, not solar irradiance, not magnetic flux, not cosmic rays, not clouds, not volcanoes or big meteors – combined. I think many people misinterpret what the vast majority of scientists think – the planet is not about to undergo a ‘catastrophic’ (tipping point) climate change any time soon due to AGW.

fungochumley

I am very interested in a stronger case for ‘negative’ feedbacks, I have not been able to exact it myself nor have I been able to discern any strong, credible or robust research from others. We keep trying though.

Hasbeen

I don’t know of any economist who has been able to ‘hindcast’ the Great Depression, or who was able to predict the severity of this latest global financial crisis. However, scientists have been able to hindcast climate trends very well. While not perfect (we can’t predict volcanic eruptions with any great certainty), the GCM’s are getting better all the time. I would agree that economists could do a better job insofar as the SRES goes, hopefully by AR5 they will. Btw, 1934 tied with 2005 as the hottest year on record in the contiguous states of the US ... if you factor in Alaska, then 1934 is blown out of the water, especially when you consider the USA is only 2% of the planet. Oh yeah, my name was also added to that petition.

mememine69

Please don’t “tell (your) kids that the planet is going to be dead from CO2 in their day.” No reasonable or rational person is, why should you? Climate is not weather. You don’t have to believe in AGW, that’s ok ... however, we (humanity) need to adapt to a changing climate and at the same time live in a more sustainable way.

Clownfish

There will be some seriously embarrassed people around if the GW we have been experiencing doesn’t kick-start with a vengeance by 2015, including me.


Ken Fabos

Very true, writing opinions in books cannot be equated to publishing the latest in scientific journals.

spindoc

My field of expertise lies in land/ocean/atmosphere dynamics (I am not a geologist). I have read the Heartland Institute’s report, thanks. They certainly go out to trash the IPCC. It will only take one very rigorous and robust counter claim to AGW to throw it out with the bathwater. This has not been done. If any of the reviewers could do so, they would have presented their findings at the International Climate Science Convention in March. They didn’t. In fact these same people were attending their own climate change convention in New York, again run by the Heartland Institute. Even you have said it before, it is not about the science, it’s about political and economic ideology.

Daviy
6,500 years?

Protagoras

While I’ll not always agree with you (as I’m sure the reverse is also true), I most definitely agree with your stance on pollution issues. I for one appreciate your links (and opinion) to the various sites you have catalogued – a wealth of information one way or the other that serves OLO’ers (and observers) well, whether they believe that or not. Thanks