Fungo, I’m just replying to Meme’s emotive “Stop scaring my kids!” routine as if climatologists were out to hurt our kids. It’s because they LOVE their kids that they are trying to “SCARE” the adults into action (because common sense hasn’t worked so far!)

Besides, that’s MILD compared to the insults Meme vomits out. Am I a troll? No. I’m prepared to talk if you have a REAL question. But I'm only human and lost my temper. Sorry.

Spindoc,
I thought we were having a conversation but now you’re just ignoring anything you don’t like and accusing me unfairly. Y2K had some possible risks but I never thought it was *that* serious.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y2k#Resulting_bugs_from_date_programming
A nervous friend bought tinned food but I just laughed.

“And no more science thanks.”

You don’t have to do the math to read the EXECUTIVE SUMMARY ARGUMENTS put forward by both sides. If you won’t do this, then you don’t have ANYTHING sensible to say about this whole subject! You may as well say “I don’t like global warming, but I don’t want to read anything about it.” Game over.

The sun shines. The earth reflects heat back into space. But, LUCKILY for us naturally occurring greenhouse gases bounce some of that heat back to earth, warming it, otherwise we’d be about the same temperature as the moon.

We KNOW this by Spectrometry, the same science that enables the internet with which you’re reading this sentence. It WORKS for other scientific enterprises and has enabled all sorts of modern wonders.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectrometry

Here’s another preddie picture for you to look at.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_gas

If we increase those gases the heat also increases. This equation spells out by how much.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiative_forcing

Then they count other forcings, and BINGO! Co2 is changing climate.

It is not that hard, and I'm keen to know if Plimer even addresses these foundations, or if he just says "But Co2's too small a percentage to do anything!" WRONG — we CAN measure this, see common myth 8!
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn11462

Points to keep in mind when suggesting that SUV gas and plant food from evil human monkeys are going to dictate the temperature and health of an entire planet:
-Rachel Carson
-23 years of CO2 doomsday predictions
-The smoggy 70's when a river caught fire in Ohio USA
-Volcanoes
-Hysterical if it bleeds it reads corporate media
-Opportunistic independent agenda driven media
-Pandering politicians
-PR firms
-Paid consultants posing in white lab coats being called scientists
-Lazy teachers
-My goggle search is better than your goggle search mentality
-Y2K
-Carl Sagan predicting a nuclear winter from the first gulf war oil field fires
-4.5 billion years of planetary evolution
-Commet hits
-Primal fear
-Denying our children a safe and healthy future with the global warming THREAT
-Ignorance
-Guilt
-Sacrificing virgins
-Ethnic cleansing
-Cold fusion
-CO2 is not Carbon Monoxide don’t forget but many believe it.
-Many believe that all pollution stays in the air for ever
-Plant life needs CO2
-CO2 is a building block of life
-48 years of environmental struggles that have increased awareness, given us environmental laws and protections and standards, scrubbers, catalytic converters, fuel-efficient cars,
-The sky is still blue
-The grass is still green
-Global warming is another WMD lie.
-Why is environMENTALism so mean?
-We are living longer than at any time in human history
-In 1900 they wondered what to do with all of the horses needed by the year 2000
Oil does cause war so let’s work together to protect, preserve and respect our planet, not save and rescue it with guilt, fear, hate and misery from a non existent crisis.

An interesting article I read today. So, here's the solution to Global Warming. ;-)

"A Norwegian scientist says he has shown how much aerosols influence climate.

"Global models of the emission of these aerosols suggest the cooling effect they have cancels out approximately 10% of the global warming caused by greenhouse gases," explained Jim Haywood, an aerosol researcher from the UK Met Office, who was not involved in this study.

"But satellite methods that detect the amount of aerosols in the atmosphere suggest a cooling effect that cancels out about 20%."

By identifying the source of this discrepancy, Dr Myhre was able to reconcile the two approaches and come up with a more precise estimate - closer to 10%.

Dr Haywood said.

"This will have an impact on future climate predictions."

The research team, led by fellow Met Office scientist Dr Andy Jones, found that global warming could be slowed by up to 25 years."

Hi Meme
Yes, people live longer (at present) and I saw a cool movie the other night, but, um, relevance? The grass IS still green, have you been smoking some?

In the meantime... here are the top 26 MYTHS you’re likely to try and circulate on these forums.

MYTHS that are NOT TRUE

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn11462

Chaotic systems are not predictable

We can't trust computer models of climate

Many leading scientists question climate change

It's all a conspiracy

They predicted global cooling in the 1970s

Global warming is down to the Sun, not humans

It's all down to cosmic rays

Human CO2 emissions are too tiny to matter

CO2 isn't the most important greenhouse gas

Ice cores show CO2 increases lag behind temperature rises, disproving the link to global warming

Ice cores show CO2 rising as temperatures fell

The cooling after 1940 shows CO2 does not cause warmingMovie Camera

The 'hockey stick' graph has been proven wrong

It's been far warmer in the past, what's the big deal?

It was warmer during the Medieval period, with vineyards in England

We are simply recovering from the Little Ice Age

Mars and Pluto are warming too

UPDATED: Antarctica is getting cooler, not warmer, disproving global warming

Polar bear numbers are increasing

The lower atmosphere is cooling, not warming
The oceans are cooling

Global warming stopped in 1998
What is going to happen?
Warming will cause an ice age in Europe

Higher CO2 levels will boost plant growth and food production

Hurricane Katrina was caused by global warming
Why should I worry?

It's too cold where I live - warming will be great

We can't do anything about climate change

The solution to Global Warming Jayb?

You mean this article?:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8108100.stm

Which also includes this gem:
"This suggests the [cooling] effect is weaker than the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) has estimated."
Oh yeah, the cooling effect of aerosols is less than estimated, no wonder Dr Haywood said "This will have an impact on future climate predictions." Because it's worse than they estimated.

Dr Andy Jones of course said hat his team "found that global warming could be slowed by up to 25 years", but there's no full stop there's a comma and the sentence continues.... " but they also found the approach [brightening clouds by adding salt particles] could also have some very detrimental effects."

One of which includes killing a lot of the Amazon by causing a sharp decrease in rainfall over South America.

Sounds like an ideal solution to me. I don't know what the Brazilians think of it though.

Hi Bugsy, Yes, selective cut'n'paste, there is a lot of it around here. eh!