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The Forum > Article Comments > The flawed logic of the cap-and-trade debate > Comments

The flawed logic of the cap-and-trade debate : Comments

By Ted Nordhaus and Michael Shellenberger, published 5/6/2009

Current efforts to tax or cap carbon emissions are doomed to failure: the answer lies in making clean energy cheap.

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This article states an important point: Innovation comes from Public funds...exploitation is what the private sector does. We *know* that corporations in markets require governance: GFC is most recent example. The tulip frenzy in Europe is also an excellent study as to ungoverned market dynamics. Even though R&D is the most productive investment that can be made (historically), almost all of it is public innovation being exploited by corporations. I've no problem with exploitation, after all profitable enterprises are the nations wealth, however when they curtail progress then they need to be governed so that society can move on. Exploitation of technology=Good, Exploitation of society via politics=Bad.
I'm with beefyboy: Positive effort, not negative.
Lets get the solar-thermal plants installed, make the next-gen batteries, lay the high voltage DC. *Current* state of the art can compete with coal now...provided you level the playing field. Of course a level playing field is not how business is done these days. Once an industry gets large enough then the lobby power and "institute power" will keep competition to a minimal.
The denialists are playing the same game as tobacco companies and creationists: "Doubt is our product". The fact hat their arguments are total BS is irrelevant to them. Do we expect ads to be totally accurate? The Cap and trade nonsense as well as the "alternate science" are just marketing tools to minimise the impact of a potential crisis.
Sadly we have probably passed some important tipping points so we will definitely have to adapt to some radical changes. This is no excuse for business as usual though.
Posted by Ozandy, Tuesday, 9 June 2009 11:00:52 AM
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Ozandy

You took the words right out of my mouth.

All we are seeing from the so-called 'skeptics' are stalling tactics. Their arguments are based purely on self-interest and have as much 'science' as the tobacco companies provided in their BS claims about carcinogenic agents.

We so need action with the existing technology, what knowledge we lack WILL be found along the way, but this cap-and-trade is simply putting money into different buckets and achieving nothing.

Here's a link to what is being done right now with alternative renewable technology on a large scale:

http://www.scientificamerican.com/slideshow.cfm?id=10-largest-renewable-energy-projects&sc=CAT_SP_20090608

Meanwhile, we have ignorant politicians like Fielding further muddying the waters and setting back change - for how much longer can we continue arguing while still polluting and using all nonrenewable fuels?

Madness.
Posted by Fractelle, Tuesday, 9 June 2009 11:58:19 AM
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Ozandy: "Even though R&D is the most productive investment that can be made (historically), almost all of it is public innovation being exploited by corporations. I've no problem with exploitation, after all profitable enterprises are the nations wealth, however when they curtail progress then they need to be governed so that society can move on."

Can anyone out there translate this for me? I'm really keen to understand what Ozandy is trying so very hard to communicate.

"Creationists: Doubt is our product."
lol. Now there's something I've never heard before.

"Sadly we have probably passed some important tipping points...."
Ech, stop there. My stomach just passed an important tipping point.

Fractelle, if you don't want your car, can I have it?
Posted by fungochumley, Tuesday, 9 June 2009 8:40:21 PM
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PS. Thanks dallas. Very funny.
Posted by fungochumley, Tuesday, 9 June 2009 8:41:36 PM
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Fungo

In a word:

NO

If I can obtain a small fuel efficient economical car, then you can too.

Now, some home-work for you:

Please justify business-as-usual.

By that I mean continuing to use all non-renewable energy sources, pollute the air, our streams and oceans and to continue breeding humans beyond which our planet can sustain.

Thank you.
Posted by Fractelle, Wednesday, 10 June 2009 11:21:18 AM
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