With whom are we to discuss “ways to help young people behave better.”? Not the young people themselves; they already know all of the answers, and have little or no respect for their elders and their social mores. Telling them drug taking is ‘wrong’; telling them that loose sexual behaviour will lead to misery will only make them more determined to go their own way.

I don’t see how anyone claiming experience of teenagers these days can say: “And don’t think that the younger generation are not going to listen to you.”

It is too late for teenagers because parents have wasted the children’s early formative years by giving into them, not realising that children simply have to be made to do certain things and not be allowed their own way. There are also too many people trying to friends to their kids instead of parents

Alex
Other people's consensual sexual relations are none of your business.

I blame the media and advertising industries.
As we all know sex sells and it is used in advertising by companies because it makes them money. They dont care about the cumulative effect of promoting promiscuity and perversion. There is no effect on them if they corrupt and degrade a whole generation they still make their profits.

We can hardly act surprised when the example we set is followed by the next generations. Television and movies portray sex in wholly unhealthy and unrealistic ways and since they are probably the most potent of all the influences children come under these days is it any wonder they are taking this "new" (im)morality to be the norm?

I fully expect to see new heights scaled in the breaking of taboos and a continual slide into the depths of depravity in the name of marketing and business. I was reading something the other day about breasts and their history and it got me to wondering if that will be a future cultural fad of the youthful masses. Clothing that exposes a tit or two or just plain toplessness. Apparently it was very big fashion wise once upon a time. How long before they have at the ultimate sexual taboo of pedophilia? Children are after all in the perfect position to break and destroy such a taboo.

Sexting, porn on tap, diy porn, are also products of todays technology. How much further can it go? Not to mention the message that Viagra sends to young people. They are told sex is THE most important thing in life and that it is your right to have as much of it as you want forever. Is it any wonder they get confused when the reality doesnt play out like that?

We must set the example that we want our children to follow and not expect them to do as I say not as I do. We must stop commerce using sex for its own ends to make money. We must be open and honest with children about sex and then allow them to safely and freely experience it in their own time and in their own way, free from perverting outside influences and with the knowledge they need to make informed decisions.

Alex, thank you for writing this article. Discussion about this issue would be more useful if people were more specific. Motherhood statements about 'being more respectful of women' don't explain exactly what is or is-not acceptable sexual behaviour and what should be the consequences. Is sleeping around a sacking offence? Is infidelity a sacking offence? What about group sex? Would Matthew Johns' critics be comfortable if a female media personality lost her job for any of the above?

Wing, I'm afraid that other people's actions do affect the rest of us. When other people make poor choices they expect me to feel sorry for them. When the worst behaved men get rewarded with more sex it influences the behaviour of other men. When women say 'no' a few times before saying 'yes', they help to create a world where there is rape. When women sleep around, men are less likely to consider having long term relationships. I could go on and on.

In every sport there's negatives in approached and application, it seems NRL is the main contributor to misbehaving and holier than thou attitudes. Aussie rules had problems, it cleaned up the game and the culture, now bad behavior is severely dealt with on and off the field.

In NRL violent behavior on the field is condoned and encouraged by commentators and leaders, doing all in their power to excuse and dismiss their brawling game, by calling it manly. Until they remove the violence from the game and add more skills, it will continue the way it is. Many parents realise it's a primitive approach to sporting life, so they push their kids to other sports where they can enjoy themselves on and off the field, responsibly.

I was involved in rural football in NSW in the 80/90's, the business I operated was a sponsor. Saturday nights throughout the season was always trouble, those in charge mainly joked and laughed about it.

When Aussie rules came to town, they had a couple of fund raisers at our premises and after their first year approached us for sponsor ship. We'd been informed by the local NRL that they weren't happy we'd allowed them to use our venue and if we sponsored them they'd remove NRL support from our business. The behavior of both codes off the field, meant we were losing customers when the NRL team was in our venue, yet when the AFL teams were there, it was a good night. Unlike NRL, families came along with the team after games and to functions bringing others with them.

Rugby league has to change dramatically or die, people want to watch elite skilled footballers, not thugs bashing each other on the field and abusing any they want off the field. It's sad for those who love and play the game in good spirits and fair play. As long as the game consists of violently grabbing people around the neck, throwing them to the ground and jumping on them as the main aspect of the game, what else can you expect.

Thank-you for this, it needs saying. but it will not make an iota of difference to the OLO Boy's Club.

If you've seen other threads, you will notice that the mere suggestion of a grown man taking some responsibility for his own actions-is roundly attacked!

'If she's up for it, she gets it-and more,- and shouldn't whinge about it afterwards, because that makes US look bad'.

NOW I understand why the late Lee Marvin DID say he came to Australia because 'men can still beat their wives here'!

Nothing has changed. Look around this place.

And now I will get attacked again. Because to say this makes me a feminist/feminazi;-phrases BOTH, that are used as insults.

Ginx,

Where does the woman take responsibility for her own actions?

Whether one likes wife swapping, group sex, homosexual sex, S&M / bondage, I don't care primarily because it has absolutely b*gger all to do with me.

The assumption is that unless one conforms to societies norms one is "dirty". I thought that as a society we had got past that.

However, the prudish / pc element seems to be on the rise, and seems to be hell bent on punishing anyone who does not conform, and censoring anything that might offend.

I personally am sick and tired of these thought police.

"Last year a box arrived at my college, containing pamphlets from New South Wales Health: “Drug Safety: Guide to a better night”. Not once did it say that taking drugs was wrong."

The reason for this is that taking drugs is not wrong.
Governments have been trying to convince people for decades that taking drugs is wrong. This approach has failed miserably by any standard.

Similarly, consensual sex between any number of adults is not wrong. In this case it was obviously a bad idea for all parties, but that does not make it, per se, always wrong for everyone.

Please keep your morals to yourself.

Alex writes
'but these days it’s only inhibitions that get in the way, and one or two drinks wears them off completely.'

That is exactly the problem. Our consciences are dead. Moral relativism has led to some believing having sex with kids is fine. Somehow secularist mantra is if its legal then its okay. No wonder they keep wanting to lower the age of consent and to push their propaganda through the school systems. We are now eating the fruit of rejecting the clear need for absolutes (right and wrong). Thankfully many are now rejecting the free love hippie era that went from one degradation to the next. The frightening thing is these are now the people teaching on relationships (most could not even keep a marriage vow). It is the blind leading the blind. Further fruit of our stupidity will be sharia law which Europe is already heading for fast. God has literally handed us over to our own stupidity. How girls could be so dumb as to have been sucked into using their bodies to win acceptance from their peers is unbelievable. Feminism is silent because it has contributed to such disgusting standards.

I've said my piece about this topic in the concurrent thread that's been running in the 'General' section since 14 May.

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=2767

I think that many aspects of Rugby League and its subculture are quite pathological in social terms, and this latest tawdry episode is a prime example of why.

The writer is talking about the NRL;-about the culture. I am responding to that!

And I am responding to WHY a situation where 11 grown;-some married men,-end up in a room with one young woman;--IS a disgrace when it is twisted about like a Rubik's Cube to make it her fault.

She was a fool;-but what were they?

I too have had it. But I've had enough of having this ugly thing spun around to make these brainless buffoons into the victims for Glods sake!!

Don't any of you blokes get it? I don't care whether this was seven or seventy years ago. And I don't care if those Neanderthals were buggering each other or plastic dolls!

It is what they did;-what some of them have said they will continue to do;-and the extraordinary justification of this by men!!

And NO!! I have no respect for the women who involve themselves in this lifestyle, which has directly resulted in this stupid young woman being looked on as a serial groupie who got what she deserved, AND women in general being looked on as fair game!

The thing that featured in the 4C programme has now written a piece for a rag called the Telegraph? in which she is quite aggrieved at being misunderstood, yet goes on to describe how these men 'like going where their friends have gone before'.

I've had enough of the whole bunch of you-including these grubby little slags, whose lifestyle was emulated by this silly young woman. Even that odious groupie admitted she'd done that.

OK??

I don't get the impression that the author is imposing their morals on people, or being prudish / pc.

The behaviour is not encouraged as it is unhealthy and leads to a range of problems. A bit like ads discouraging excessive sun-tanning, smoking and alcoholism. You can take it or leave it, but you can't deny that there are consequences and shouldn't pretend to young people that there are no strings attached to rampant sexual permissiveness.

It's not a matter of conforming to 'society's norms'. I agree with Alex that there is objective upright moral behaviour. People from all times and places should be able to understand it. If people don't understand it, it is not because they are enlightened by some special detachment from 'society's agenda.' It's more likely that they need to be told about how to behave in public, treat a female and avoid making decisions that could screw their life up.

This latest NRL incident should come as
a stern warning to both players and young
women to re-think their behaviour. As one
newspaper columnist pointed out (sorry,
I don't remember which one -I've read so
many on this subject)...For so long,
there's been incidents, whether it was drugs,
alcohol or abuse of women, and people have
walked away from.

Let's hope the shock of the after-effects of
this incident will be a wake-up call - that
no one walks away from. That it sends a message
to all concerned.

That night turned sour at the time the door opened
and other players walked in. From that moment on
this event was headed for disaster and tears.

From the time the other blokes walked into the room,
(the extra party) they're in the wrong.

And even if they felt at that time, as though she gives
consent. it's still going to end up wrong.
She's in no position to make that decision. They
completely hijacked her. And when alcohol is involved -
it becomes even more complicated - a grey area - in
which only a morally shortchanged unmanly indecent guy
would take advantage of. And the excuse - she consented -
simply doesn't hold much weight especially when the
eyewitness accounts are 10 against one.

The football clubs need to know that the public is running
out of patience with immoral, immature, and unmanly
behaviour from those who wear their colours...

It's killing not only the game - but leaving so many
victims in its wake - including the wives and families
of the guys who took part - married guys - at least one in his
30s - who know better. The culture of the sport
needs to change.

Perrottet:"It was objectively wrong for all"

On what grounds? The woman is getting paid-off with compenstion (it's always nice to have a nice clean teat to suck on) and has since married (a footballer) and we have only her word that she suffered as she claims. Johns was wrong to break his marriage vows, unquestionably, but otherwise all was fine until the four Corners grrrls decided to rake some muck. So what was "objectively wrong"?

The New Wowsers are great at claiming "objectivity", but not so good at backing it with some rationality, it seems.

Foxy:"the public is running
out of patience with immoral, immature, and unmanly
behaviour from those who wear their colours..."

The "public" seem pretty equally divided. The grrrls brigade, OTOH, have seen this as a free kick for them and rushed in, never bothering to check the facts. There were so many Doc Martens swinging wildly at the end of hairy legs on Tuesday last that I thought there was a remake of Arachnophobia being shot at Movie World.

The New Wowsers are not the sole determinators of what constitutes acceptable behaviours. The grrls brigade in the media has failed dismally in their duty as reporters to report the facts honestly and as fully as possible. Sarah Ferguson of Four Corners and her producers deserve censure in the strongest possible terms for putting to air a badly unbalanced and defamatory story without checking what seem to have been widely available facts.

My own suspicion is that this incident will backfire badly on the bandwagon riders, such as Pru Goward, who frankly looks like a complete tosser over her pronouncements on the matter, as well as Kate Ellis, the Federal sports Minister, who was a bit late, but managed to grab hold as the bandwagon sailed past.

The biggest lessons to learn are that when women say yes, they mean "yes for now, but I might change my mind later and then you'll be in strife" and that many, many women think that a 19 year-old "girl" is incapable of making up her own mind

...and etc,...etc,.....etc,....................etc,.................

Just a mantra. Man-tra-la-la-la-la!