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The Forum > Article Comments > Lonesome and blue: the soul-destroying lives of boys in the bush > Comments

Lonesome and blue: the soul-destroying lives of boys in the bush : Comments

By Tanveer Ahmed, published 18/5/2009

Suicide risk factors such as depression, economic worries and alcohol use are heightened in rural areas by social isolation.

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Tanveer, I dont know if you read the comments section.

"the male ego remains more dependent upon occupation."

Whilst it is true in part, the fact is that following divorce/separation a mans risk of suicide increases.

It was once proposed that men got their sense of identity from his occupation, and the woman got hers from relationships.

However as the suicide rate shows, following divorce. Work or career provides no or little protection to a mans suicide risk.
Posted by JamesH, Monday, 18 May 2009 10:13:59 AM
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Suicide rates will continue to rise as the secularist indoctrinate children with the fallacy of evolution. With all the money spent on mental health (as much as I admire the workers) little has been achieved. When kids have been taught they come from monkeys and are not accountable at the end of their life it leads to people's self worth being tied up in what they do rather than who they are. We see this with some NRL players and the women who throw themselves at them. Added to that the propaganda from the Greens as to the harmless affects of smoking dope and you have death waiting to happen. Suicide is largely a spiritual problem with many men being bound to a multitude of different drugs to combat self harm. Sometimes they work for a while while other times they don't. Undealt with guilt, shame and worthlessness are a result a false belief system that denies the obvious (our Creator) and creates a false world where you think that suicide itself is better than hell. Suicide was much less of a problem when our society worshipped and found forgiveness in the ONly One who can forgive all sin. No amount of 'saving the planet or kicking goals can substitute for the forgiveness of sin and the guilt and degradation that comes with sin.
Posted by runner, Monday, 18 May 2009 3:13:12 PM
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Recent research done by McPhedran and Baker, University of Sydney has dispelled the common perception that firearms feature highly in suicides. In fact the use of firearms is very low, while hanging is common.

Single motor vehicle accidents is thought to be involved in many unreported suicides, with police being naturally reluctant to record such a death as possible suicides where supporting evidence like a suicide note is unavailable.

It is foolish to suggest that metrosexuals might have a lower incidence of suicide. I don't understand why Prue Goward's name was dropped.

Beyond Blue was mentioned, so there is some worth in the article.
Posted by Cornflower, Monday, 18 May 2009 8:41:26 PM
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cornflower:"Single motor vehicle accidents is thought to be involved in many unreported suicides"

Qld police reported a few weeks ago that something like 60% of single-vehicle faltalities involve a lone driver, alcohol and failure to wear a seatbelt...

Most are in the bush.
Posted by Antiseptic, Tuesday, 19 May 2009 6:46:00 AM
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Tanveer Ahmed, You write: "Mining, wool and agriculture have never required large numbers of people": Well actually, they used to; but it was about 100yrs ago, and that would be 'off the radar' to most people who write about it today. See, the mentality in this country is a coastal one: The vast majority 'have' to live there, because of the way technology and business have developed. Pity. Those of us born out here, over the mountains, in the inland, and wanting to stay here, have to struggle constantly, just to have a job, let alone making a living from it. It was not always that way. Many Govt policies from both parties, over the decades, have not helped. Suicide? Yes, it would be more common. Theorise about the causes? I live here, so don't have time to theorise. There are people in this community who feel isolated. I am one of them. But I have a job and live in town. So I am a lucky one. Education might help, but I have 10yrs tertiary education, and noone out here wants to put my skills to good use, and I won't take on the risk of small business because that risk is too great: So I work for an employer: My job is only part-time, award wages and I struggle to make ends meet. The interior of Australia is dying because noone can find a way to make ongoing large amounts of income from it, to support the population, as they used to, before the industrial revolution. But then I suppose the time before the industrial revolution is pre-history to some. Mining saved us a bit, but it is always going to be transient. Until Govt or any powers that be, business or otherwise, find a sustainable way to make huge $, which is all that matters to anyone these days; the inland of this country will continue to slowly die, until there is nothing left. That has been happening since the industrial revolution, so it is not new. Suicide? That is just part of the dying process.
Posted by LadyAussieAlone, Tuesday, 19 May 2009 1:38:49 PM
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You certainly can't equate higher suicide risk with secularism in the bush or for that matter anywhere at this present time, there are many situations sucking the enthusiasm for life out of people. Changing climate, drought, depleted water supplies, failed crops, dying towns, they all contribute to the problem.

The young living in the bush see the realties of those changes, whilst those in the city don't and have many distractions to keep them from thinking of the real situation outside cities. That's why people are flocking to cities, the bush has become depressed and neglected.

The young in cities can just drive or walk to any number of places where they can socialise, whilst in the bush they have to drive long distances and after a good night out, facing the long lonely drive home with the only thought of how you will cope with tomorrow, can make people do silly things on the spur of the moment.

Lots of suicides revolve around chemical imbalance in the brain and until the causes and remedial methods are instigated, it will only get worse.

Tanveer doesn't seem to have much personal knowledge of country life at all, when you consider he's spent his entire life in Sydney, it makes me wonder why people write about things they seem to have little experience of. As with all illness, remove the cause, rather than just put more useless bureaucrats into the field, confusing everyone and stuffing everything up.
Posted by stormbay, Tuesday, 19 May 2009 2:27:19 PM
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"Tanveer doesn't seem to have much personal knowledge of country life at all, when you consider he's spent his entire life in Sydney, it makes me wonder why people write about things they seem to have little experience of. As with all illness, remove the cause, rather than just put more useless bureaucrats into the field, confusing everyone and stuffing everything up.
Posted by stormbay, Tuesday, 19 May 2009 2:27:19 PM"
_____________________________

This is a bloke who is living and working out there, and dealing with the problem first hand!

And THAT'S all you can say?

The measure of our concern for this situation is shown in that curt dismissal of someone who is trying to pick up the pieces,-AND the lack of responses to this increasing tragedy.

I myself have bypassed the thread, but kept coming back to it.

I WISH we cared more.
I wish we could establish some sort of 'buddy link'.

These folks HAVE been left behind in the exodus to the city. It was bound to be even tougher for those who are left.

But out of sight, IS out of mind.

And the awful thing about that is that it is also the way our Government/s deal with it. They don't.

When did the Government last express any ONGOING concern for the dying country areas? What have they done? Nothing!

I am so sorry Tanveer. More power to you and those that do what you do.
I feel quite helpless about this.
Posted by Ginx, Friday, 22 May 2009 1:59:19 PM
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<”This is a bloke who is living and working out there, and dealing with the problem first hand!”>

He lives in Sydney and has for almost all his life, he's made a couple of trips to rural areas and spent most of that time in regional towns in air-conditioned comfort.

<”I am so sorry Tanveer. More power to you and those that do what you do.
I feel quite helpless about this. “>

Well I don't feel helpless, I live in the bush and am part Koori, so I speak from first hand knowledge. Unlike the ignorant with their holier than thou attitudes, yet don't have a clue about anything to do with the reality of life, nor have any experience of it
Posted by stormbay, Saturday, 23 May 2009 12:11:04 PM
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Ginx

There is a way to help, see this by ABC's Landline in 2006 (featured Sheffield, Tas):

http://www.abcclassics.com/news/stories/2008/10/04/2382068.htm?site=westernvic

It is most disappointing to find that the federal men's health 'initiative' doesn't seem to apply any of the principles learned in the above suicide prevention program or in other small-scale but successful men's health programs.

I don't think that the federal health department is really that interested in men's health.
Posted by Cornflower, Saturday, 23 May 2009 2:08:17 PM
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Cheers cornflower, I'm going to have a good look at that.

Mens health has always been secondary in terms of available programmes, BUT that in part is due to an attitude by men that 'they don't need a doctor'. It's been made easy for Government/s to be lax on health programmes for men.
_______________________

stormbay; I haven't changed my view one atom. I don't care if the guy lives on Mars and visits.

The subject matter is on what's happening out there, and trying to highlight the cost.

Your scorn puzzles me. Are you saying there are no problems, or that a 'City boy' should not highlight them? Which is it?

Me;-I'm a pragmatist. I don't care who highlights this problem. I was with a nationally recognised group, based on country matters/principles. I know what they and their neighbours go through.

(I just went back to read your post again, just to check whether I had misunderstood).

The value of our cousins in the country and bush, and their struggles to provide for us, cannot be underestimated. Yet we are entirely separate from them, and we care little;-our Government/s care little.

I remain perplexed at your anger, and the 'holier than thou' comment.
Posted by Ginx, Saturday, 23 May 2009 2:57:45 PM
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Ginx, there's big problems for men's health in the bush, it's not the attitude of men, but the attitude of city professionals, bureaucrats and ignorant city dwellers, the biggest contributors to the bushes problems. They arrive in their flash cars and clothes designed for concrete, telling everyone it has to be their way or not at all.

In the bush, there's many women's programs, help centres and privileged access to services run by qualified professionals. For men, they send out bureaucratic social workers who don't want to be there, only relate to red tape, expense accounts and funding cuts. They dribble out department policy and approaches, then leave, so they can have their long weekends. Nothing changes, yet they write a report saying how well they did. Their answers are self help groups, men's sheds and feel good meetings.

The bush doesn't provide you with your foods, you buy imported foods and goods, just like everyone else in cities, destroying the lifestyle of country Australians. That's your holier than thou attitude and why you haven't got a clue what you're talking about. I'm semi retired, but I've worked in mental health for many years, mostly in the bush and get no support from government in dealing with men's mental health. We have a female doctor, psychologist and rural nurse dedicated solely to women, we have child care, social workers, council women's services and 24 hr access lines for women.

For the rest of the population, meaning men, we have a locum doctor changing every few weeks, sometimes we don't have one for days. There's no psychological services at all, except for myself and a retired social worker, our work is voluntary, we can't even get a place to work. You have to remember most of these government departments are run by women, which speaks for itself.

All these problems relate to the selfishness of city dwellers, who support overseas and multinational companies, to the detriment of their own countrymen and producers. Little wonder they are so distressed and feel alone.
Posted by stormbay, Sunday, 24 May 2009 7:00:15 AM
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stormbay, well said. Cue the usual rants about misogyny from the entitlement Gunxies and the rest of the lighweights.

The fact is that men do not get the same level of governmental support as women do whether you are talking about the cities or the bush, or whether you're talking about mental health, physical health or any other form of State support. The bureaucracies are basically run by and for women and men can look after themselves. if you raise questions about this, you'll be told it's because we have UN treaty obligations, which make the rights of a woman in Somalia more important for Australian Governments than those of men in Australia.
Posted by Antiseptic, Sunday, 24 May 2009 7:45:06 AM
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Alot of ink and air tme has been spent selling the message that the way women are portrayed in the media, is the major factor in Anorexia Nervosa.

So would it not be equally applicable that the negative way men are portrayed by the media as a factor in the suicide rates.

I wonder if this is just coincidence;

"the rate almost trebling since the 1960's"

The 1960's also saw the rise of feminism.
Posted by JamesH, Monday, 25 May 2009 6:35:10 AM
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First of all get one thing straight. You don't talk to me as if I'm an idiot. I am not. And if you want a full on, then I'm up for it.

I have asked you politely to explain, and you've again been bloody rude. So;-let me know what you want and we'll go for it.

NOW: BECAUSE you've had a go at me, the toe rag blowfly has come in to encourage you. Wherever there is any (attempted) bullying of those it dislikes, it comes rushing in to add some petty support.

Whatever our division:-do you REALLY need to have other men supporting you? I wouldn't have picked you for a weakling.

JamesH is inferring that feminism is the cause of suicides in the Bush!! Well now, why not? It's responsible for everything else!

It also says a lot about the strength of men that it is actually assertive women who have driven them to take their lives, and not economic/environmental/and insensitive attitude by city folk!!

Silly me.

You are partially right in what you say, but I KNOW that the Bush does provide some of our food. I agree with you that whether or not that is the case- most all people in the metropolitan areas do not give one damn.

But I do! You damn well get that straight. Don't you dare try to dismiss that!

One more thing Stormbay. You have a massive chip on your shoulder. Frankly I can understand why. But don't take it out on me, OR those who have highlighted the problems out there...,whatever their motivation.

And thank God for people like you who have to deal with the reality.

If you are a Doctor, I've a fair idea of who you are....
Posted by Ginx, Monday, 25 May 2009 1:58:01 PM
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Ginx, I apologise if you thought my post determined you an idiot, as it was not my intent. However your irrational and emotional reply sure gives that impression. It's clear you have no understanding of why we have such bad outcomes in rural Aus, it has nothing to do with feminism or the bizarre term assertive women, nor did I say so. I would see what you describe as assertive women, as being in the main, fat psychopaths who don't have a clue about anything and we have to put up with their insane dictates almost daily.

I got a great laugh out of the chip on my shoulder comment. You've no idea the amount of frustration we endure watching our communities die, whilst bureaucratic city idiots and their equally ignorant city dwellers contribute to rural demise by consuming more than 85% of food and 93% of consumer goods all imported. We have to listen to these idiot bureaucrats make denials, excuses and outrageous lies to cover up their complete incompetence daily. The reason every health system in rural Australia and for that matter cities are in such turmoil is, they are all run by useless bureaucrats, whose only qualifications is a minor degree in the arts and years of working on becoming obese bludgers.

Your pathetic attempt at playing the victim, shows how flimsy your argument is. Real women support their men, assertive women destroy that trust. It's the same with men, those who assert themselves all the time, are the main problem in their relationships. I certainly don't thank god, it's the major problem the world has and one of the biggest causes of mental anguish and depression in the bush.
Posted by stormbay, Tuesday, 26 May 2009 6:22:17 AM
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Thanks for the ...er, apology!!
______
'Feminists are in the main fat psychopaths'.
______

You've been overdosing on your own tablets stormbay!!
______

"Your pathetic attempt at playing the victim, shows how flimsy your argument is. Real women support their men, assertive women destroy that trust. It's the same with men, those who assert themselves all the time, are the main problem in their relationships. I certainly don't thank god, it's the major problem the world has and one of the biggest causes of mental anguish and depression in the bush.
Posted by stormbay, Tuesday, 26 May 2009 6:22:17 AM"
__________________________

Yes, I see the wisdom... I 'play the victim', getting into fainting fits and sobbing uncontrollably!!

'...It's the same with men who assert themselves all the time, are the main problem in their relationships...'

..er, what?!?

What with the 'assertive' women, and the 'assertive' men, we're all doomed aren't we?

I thought you were making serious posts, but you are simply another embittered knuckle-dragger.

NOW I won't take your screwed up rants seriously...
...and 'God' help the poor sods who cross your path!

If they are all like you, hell will freeze over before you get ANY consideration.

Snarky little bugger!

1 server error.
2 server error.
Posted by Ginx, Tuesday, 26 May 2009 3:34:45 PM
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Ginx
<”'Feminists are in the main fat psychopaths'.”>

That is not my statement, nor do I imply that anywhere in my post. I understand your ideological need to change facts, it shows you for what you are in regard to this subject, seriously out of your depth and blindly convinced you are right

<”What with the 'assertive' women, and the 'assertive' men, we're all doomed aren't we?>”

There is a great deal of misunderstanding about the term assertive behaviour, because of it's close association with aggressive and suppressive behaviour. Most of the time the difference is unrecognisable and causes more pain, when the concept was supposedly designed to do the opposite. Since the introduction of politically correct speak, the term used was "stand up for yourself, but be nice". Now people believe they have the right to scream, get angry, deny and completely disregard what others say. They believe their rights can disregard facts, as their assertiveness is more important that being right. A perfect formula for misunderstanding and subtle abuse of people, you display that approach eminently. Which is why you have nothing much of relevance to say and so try to accuse others of your own pathetic failings and lack of knowledge of human psychology and sociology.

Maybe you should go on one of our wilderness re-hab courses, or someone else's. City people last just a couple of days and most don't even get out of the first camp, before they can't stand being without their junk and wall to wall people. Get a real life, clearly it's you biggest lacking.
Posted by stormbay, Tuesday, 26 May 2009 5:51:03 PM
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Quite right Stormy little petal:

'ASSERTIVE WOMEN are mainly fat psychopaths'.

A vast improvement. I hang my head in shame. (Honest. I do. Honest).

As to the rest of your rambling BS, I'll read it later,-I need something to cure my insomnia.
_______________________

Right. Well that's me done on my 5 post limit. I shall waddle off with my meat cleaver to destroy the life of some puny little twerp who asked for it.

Cosy chat later sweetie?
Posted by Ginx, Tuesday, 26 May 2009 6:04:35 PM
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Stormbay, I see nothing wrong with assertiveness - it beats the hell out of submissiveness in my view, but I do take your point about people being unwilling to subsume any part of their own wishes, prerogatives, desires in order to satisfy those of other people in their lives. That's not a city or country problem, it's an artifact of the separated lives we lead. In the country, people have always lived in isolation - even married couples may not see each other much from day to day, but in the city it is a relatively new phenomenon, since historically most people have lived in single-income families with one partner at least having lots of time for socialising and remaining connected with friends, family, neighbours and other groups.

Together with that has gone 40 years of advertising and concentrated media telling women that their wishes and hopes are the most important thing there is ("Girls can do anything") while men have been told for the same period that we're "mere Males", "molestors", "violent" and so on. It's hardly surprising that some people, men and women, will have taken away the message that men are simply not as important as women and that whatever a woman does to "assert herself" is A-OK.

We even have a Federal Sex Discrimination Commissioner who is unable to hear claims of discrimination againt men except if they have been sacked for asking to work part-time; every State has a Office of Women or similar and usually each department has a section devoted to ensuring women are not discriminated against, while men must look after themselves.

All in all, the last 40 years has been about turning women into the sort of spoilt children that would have drawn a swift clip acros the ear when I was a child. Who could be surprised that they've become just that?
Posted by Antiseptic, Wednesday, 27 May 2009 6:27:26 AM
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"All in all, the last 40 years has been about turning women into the sort of spoilt children that would have drawn a swift clip acros the ear when I was a child.
Posted by Antiseptic, Wednesday, 27 May 2009 6:27:26 AM"

With THIS kind of child a baseball bat would have been kind.
Posted by Ginx, Sunday, 31 May 2009 4:12:31 PM
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