"The problem is that it has become politically fashionable to equate any criticism of the government of Israel with anti-Semitism, and this serves as a convenient mechanism for deflecting valid international concern about the way the Israeli government treats its Palestinian population..."

What bollocks. The only people who tend to make this accusation are those who can't mount a decent defence of their criticisms of Israel.

As various other people associated with the Jewish community have sugested in recent times, I challenge you to name a single leader or representative of a mainstream Australian Jewish organisation that has reflexively labelled someone who criticises Israel an anti-Semite. There have been such accusations made, of course, but as a result of deliberation and thought, not a knee-jerk response.

Moreover, the term antisemitism was coined in 1879 by Wilhelm Marr, an anti-Jewish propagandist in Germany, to describe hatred of the Jews. It has no relation to people of Semitic origin, which includes Arabs as well as Jews.

A timely article clearing the confusion that seems to exist in our community about anti-semitism and the State of Israel.
There is no doubt the world was horrified when the extent of Nazi genocide in the Holocaust was revealed and there was much support for the migration of survivors to their 'promised land' in 1948.

The development of Zionism within the state of Israel and the violent ethnic cleansing that has occurred against the non jewish inhabitants of Palestine was not anticipated.

However, with events such as the September 11 attack on the US, the Bali bombings, The Iraq invasion, The Taliban / Afghanistan war,The increased violence in Pakistan and more recently, the excesses of Israeli retaliation in Gaza has focussed on the actions of the Israeli Defence Forces and the Zionist nature of the State of Israel.

The compassion extended to the Jewish people is waning with the revelations of their actions being compared to that of their German persecutors of 1940 and Gaza becoming the 'warsaw ghetto' of the Palestinians.

The game is up for the perpetuation of Israeli Zionism and time for a just solution to the problem by primarily recognising that to criticise the actions of the Israeli government is not anti-semitic

No matter what reasons other people have for criticising Israel, I hope Smith is not suggesting that Ahmadinejad isn’t anti-Semitic! We all know the old one about Arabs also being ‘Semitic’, but the unhinged president of Iran hates Israel and its people, and there is no place for semantics when the world’s leading maniac calls for Israel and, therefore, Jews to wiped off the face of the earth. Unlike Smith, I have no time for Rudd, but his ‘anti-Semitic’ response to an Islamist lunatic is no worse than Muslims incorrectly calling people who speak against their religion ‘racists’, when religion has nothing to do with race.

Everything about Smith’s article points to his own anti-Semitism, which, like most critics of Israel, he doesn’t like to be accused of.

Not much notice can be taken of a person who wrote an article on 14/11/09 entitled: “Shiek Hilali had a point!”

Smith, who is keen to tell everyone that he is a “martial arts master” and “pro boxer”, and uses the word “hate” too much for me in this current article, is not a person to be heeded.

We should all remember, too, that the religion Smith represents practised more than its fair share of anti-Semitism over the ages, and still does, seemingly preferring to kowtow to Muslims

Thanks Father Dave.

As someone who has also been accused of being anti-jewish in the Australian by a prominent zionist for of all things comparing price fixer Richard Pratt to Somali pirates, I found this article enlightening and helpful.

I too read the Iranian President's speech at Durban II. It is a completely defensible attack on imperialism and Zionism's role in that. There is an article in Socialist Alternative this month along the same lines defending the Iranian President's Durban II speech.

The fact that the only countries to walk out were white colonial or colonial settler states tells you something about the racist nature of the walkout.

The accusation of anti-semitism means, to the defenders of Israel, that they can ignore the issues and hope that others do too. They don't want to talk about the genocide of the Palestinians, the apartheid and racist nature of Israel, or even its war crimes in Gaza.

Any rational examination of these issues would conclude that they are in fact correct. So Zionists want to deflect rational discussion with accusations of anti-semitism.

The solution to my mind is one state - a democratic and secular Palestine where all who want to can live.

The apartheid analogy I find very convincing. The ANC wanted to destroy the racist state, not its people. It won.

A rainbow state works in South Africa. It can work in Palestine.

Leigh,

"Everything about Smith's article points to his own anti-Semitism",really,what precisely?
Smith's religion is irrelevant when considering the article on its merits.Of course critics of Israel don't like to be accused of anti-semitism when it's a transparent attempt by Zionists at ad hominem diversions. Israel is a nation state and its actions should be judged as a nation state,do you dispute the claim that Israel discriminates against non Jews? Evidence please.Smith cites Jews who criticise Israel's atrocious behaviour,how are they to be categorised?

Mac Your right on all counts.
Dave Smith is correct in his assumptions and yes the truth is the truth regardless of who says it(Dave's) religion is irrelevant.
The only criticism I do have is Dave claims he dislikes Arm* I would ask the father side of him to explain how that conforms to his objectivity and religion. That is shouldn't Dave despise what Arm* does not the man after all he doesn't know him.
I have real concerns about what Arm* does but haven't a clue on the man in specifics how much of the man his culture and internal politics and he as a human.
Like wise I detest equally the Israeli internal politics that define its international behaviour.I use stronger words simply because I know more about Israel than I do about Iran. Partially because of my Jewish daughter and ex Israeli resident.

One of my favourite articles on the subject is this from Barry Cohen: http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=7413.

I particularly like the Thomas Friedman quote: "Criticising Israel is not anti-Semitic and saying so is vile. But singling out Israel for opprobrium and international sanction, out of all proportion to any other party in the Middle East, is anti-Semitic and not saying so is dishonest."

This is basically the problem. Yes Israel carries out certain policies that are thoroughly worthy of criticism, and which cannot be excused solely because other countries in the region behave far worse, but Israel's critics need to consider the whole story before judging. Specifically:
1) Since its birth, Israel has suffered several existential threats. Its neighbours invaded or threatened invasion numerous times and only stopped when they realised they weren't winning easily. Organisations like Hamas still officially desire to destroy Israel.
2) Even those Arab countries that are now ostensibly at peace with Israel are rife with anti-semitism, including through official media channels and often stoked by those very governments who are supposed to be its friends.
3) Almost every country in the region forced its Jewish population to leave using far more unpleasant 'apartheid techniques' than those currently employed by Israel. The number of Jewish refugees from these countries that subsequently settled within Israel is roughly equal to the number of Palestinian refugees displaced in the 1948 war.
4) If the Arab neighbours really cared about the Palestinian refugees, why are they still living in camps after 60 years? Perhaps because if they were comfortably settled in their new countries they couldn't be used so successfully as a propaganda tool.
5) The only country in the region that didn't expel its Jews was, interestingly enough, Iran.

Given the fact that Israel is constantly under attack from all sides it is pretty amazing how much freedom it does grant to its Arab population.

Those people who constantly criticise Israel's behaviour without making any attempt to understand the context are, no doubt unwittingly, being antisemitic.

Sorry Cazza I don't accept that I am being anti-semitic, wittingly or unwittingly, for opposing the racist ideology that is Zionism. I will not be silenced by this anti-free speech slur.

I don't support the dictators in the Middle East, most of whom stay in power only with 'our' rulers support.

I don't single out Israel. I side with the oppressed against the oppressors. I side with those fighting against the dictatorships in Egypt, Syria, Jordan and so on.

And so I side with the Palestinians in their struggle against their oppressors, just as I sided with the South African liberation forces in their struggle for a truly democratic nation (not an exclusivist one) in South Africa.

You talk of context. The very creation of Israel was an act of genocide against the Palestinians.

Israel today continues that genocide.

It is not a question of taking ides but understanding the real context and opposing genocide and its particular expression in the form of Israel. Zionism is a racist ideology justifying and continuing this genocide.

Only a democratic and secular Palestine for all who want to live there can resolve the issue.

How dare you?
I have a right to be a proud zionist. I believe in a jewish state. The UN repealed its resolution that declared zionism is racism. You probably knew that but conveniently left out.
FYI, Israel is the only place in the middle east where gay people can not only vote, but serve their country in the military. It is the best place to be a woman in the middle east. Arabs in Israel are discrminiated against, but no more than minorities are in any other country, but that's not to say that it is OK. But arab israelis enjoy political freedom. arabs have served on the israeli supreme court and have their own political parties, have represented israel in sports, eurovision, the miss world contest. your denial of this and your claims of aparthei show your ignorance.
there is also no law prohibiting people from buying land if they are not jews. where is your source? let me guess . . . your "jewish friends".

Martin Luther King JR once said;
"And what is anti-Zionist? It is the denial to the Jewish people of a fundamental right that we justly claim for the people of Africa and freely accord all other nations of the Globe. It is discrimination against Jews, my friend, because they are Jews. In short, it is anti-Semitism."

Hi, Father Dave here.

I had a feeling that somebody would accuse me of being anti-Semitic for writing the article. I don't think there's any need to respond to that. When I next share a beer with some of my Jewish mates I guess we'll have a laugh about it.

As to abuses committed by the church historically, that's entirely true of course. I'm horrified by things that have been done by the church and continue to be a very critical of the church's activities in many areas (though I don't think that makes me 'anti-Christian').

As to why I don't like Admadinejad, he seems to me to be a deliberately divisive figure who has exploited anti-Israel and anti-Western sentiment in Iranian society to gain popularity.

I am a fan though of his predecessor (Mr Khatami) who continues to campaign on a platform of building bridges of dialogue between Muslims, Christians and Jews. I had the privilege of interviewing him recently about this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flaeTm2xKnw).

Dave

Dear Passy

You are absolutely right not to be silenced. However, a few points regarding your response to my post.

It is easy to sit back in the peace and security of a country like Australia and advise that "only a democratic and secular Palestine for all who want to live there can resolve the issue". I'm sure the vast majority of Jews who live in Israel would love to feel secure enough to allow this to happen. But you can't ignore either history or the current reality.

If you have the time and the inclination, check out some of the appalling stuff that is found regularly in the Arab media (e.g. go to this website for an idea http://www.adl.org/main_Arab_World/default.htm). Now imagine that you belong to a people that for centuries has suffered as a minority in Christian and Moslem lands, occasionally being allowed to live in peace and prosperity; but more often than not suffering discrimination, persecution, pogroms, expulsion and, ultimately, the Holocaust.

Now at last you have a home of your own, where you are no longer the persecuted minority but instead belong to the majority with control over your own destiny. Nevertheless you are constantly invaded, bombed, attacked and vilified by your neighbours.

Would you really give this up and trust that those vilifying neighbours (who eventually will become the majority population) will treat you as an equal?

By the way, the dictionary definition of genocide is "the deliberate and systematic extermination of a national, racial, political, or cultural group." If that is really Israel's policy, they must be totally incompetent.

Cazza,

2000 years of anti-semitism is perhaps an explanation of Israel's oppression of the Palestinians it is definitely not a justification,do Jews suffer persecution and discrimination in Western countries now? Would you rather be a Jew in Australia or a Palestinian in Israel?

Of course pure anti-semitism animates some criticism of Israel and I'll concede that the country's Islamic neighbours are ruled by backward, brutal regimes. Israel is also a very bad neighbour, the country has a tendency to expand into Palestinian land, that just might be the reason for the "vilification" you mentioned, the increase in the Palestinian population is a diversion.Don't the Palestinians have the same human sentiments as Jews?

Nicely put, Dave. When I express these views to my friends, as I often do, I usually get a patient, tolerant hearing, but it is not until some time later that I get some form of acceptance.

I receive copies of KEVINPM, a newsletter from the Prime Minister, the last one headed

"Welcome to KevinPM, where we can communicate about the big challenges confronting Australia"
Kevin Rudd

Feedback is invited and the last 100 submissions are published. My feedback posed the question "Does the Australian Government have an independent view on the Israel/Palestine issue?" This was not included in the sbmissions and a couple of weeks later I asked a similar question, which prompted a personal reply from someone associated with the newsletter, asking me to refer the question to my MP or a "duty Senator".

My question was censored and I was very disappointed with the Rudd Government, who I otherwise would support. I really must write to Stephen Smith directly with this question because I believe it should be answered.

Antony Loewenstein puts it so well
in his book, "My Israel Question,"
when he points out:

"Yes, antisemitism must be fought,
but suggesting that criticism of
the state of Israel is unrelated
to Israeli action makes as much sense
as claiming that rising anti-Americanism
has no connection with the quagmire in Iraq.

Shaming critics into submission does nothing
but inflame tensions while ignoring the vitally
important task of examining modern anti-semitism."

Akiva Eldar summed up in "Haaretz,":

"It is much easier to claim the entire world
is against us than admit that the state of
Israel, which rose as a refuge and a source of
pride for Jews...has become a genuine source
of danger and a source of shameful embarrasment
to Jews who choose to live outside its border."

Therefore calling critics of Israel anti-semitic
is a strategy intended to stifle criticism and
dissent.

As soon as I saw the Antisemitism extension to all Semites defense I knew what to expect. Antisemitism belongs to the Jews alone now, leave it alone.
If you want to trademark racism towards Arabs promote something else.

Despite the knockers to the proposition put by Passy for a Secular State where all have equal Rights, I have no doubts that this is the final solution which will certainly be difficult given the current mind set of the Zionist leaders, but nevertheless a better proposition that the two state proposals which Netanyahu and his ilk will never countenance.

Liberal supporter of Zionism cannot be aware of the Zionism of today but can get an insight from the treatment of Human Rights Activist Ezra Nawi featured in this rare video of Israeli Occupation Forces in action. <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysIaQUJWBdk>
There are many more video clips to be found on UTube if you really want to know what's going on in Israel.

Thank you Dave
Your article hits it on the head. These are the premises for sane politics.
I really have to say not much more, except maybe mention the Israel Lobby, that in one form or the other, seems to exist everywhere in the western world defending or covering up crimes against humanity committed by the Israeli Government almost everywhere.
This was posted by maracas1 YESTERDAY:

"Liberal supporter of Zionism cannot be aware of the Zionism of today but can get an insight from the treatment of Human Rights Activist Ezra Nawi featured in this rare video of Israeli Occupation Forces in action. <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysIaQUJWBdk>
There are many more video clips to be found on UTube if you really want to know what's going on in Israel."

Maracas1: If you have made a mistake with the link, please post the correct one, I would love to see it. LOL.

To the morons who have managed to remove the content:
I hope that everybody who could not find it, will start some serious research themselves. As I will. (Search U tube)

Mac,

That's your opinion, and I totally disagree with it. You should express your AGREEMENT to Smith, not your DISAGREEMENT to me personally. I don't care whether you agree with me or not.

Smith obviously feels a little guilty about his anti-Semitism because he "...had a feeling that somebody would accuse me of being anti-Semitic for writing the article."

Now he's off to have a beer with some imaginary Jewish friends. I hope he doesn't have too many, with his penchant for fighting.

Joaquin.

I have copied the link again.(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysIaQUJWBdk)After the clip you will find various UTube videos that expose the Israeli Defence Forces propaganda and efforts to obscure their brutality towards Palestinians living in Israel.There are also some disturbing pi

Does anybody still buy a pig in a poke?

It would seem so, if Dave Smith’s compilation of misrepresentations and lies are tied together with a seemingly innocuous ‘hey, I’m not anti-Semitic, I’m merely anti-Israel’ bow, is offered for sale.

Mr. Smith trumpets that he is not anti-Semitic, yet he delegitimises the Jews and misrepresents the Arabs. He wants his views on the Middle East to be taken seriously, but that’s a tad rich given he cannot find a single negative syllable to utter about numerous homicide bombers (sorry Mr. Smith, ‘martyr operators’) or about any of the 8,000+ Kassam rockets launched on Israeli civilians, in the name of Islam, by Jihadists in Gaza.

Mr. Smith’s views are emblematic of those found within the ever growing menagerie of modern anti-Semites. Leaders and instigators of this cult of anti-Semitism are concentrated chiefly on the political left, but not exclusively, with a good many of its active and vocal spokesmen to be found in universities and in some churches. Even in parliament.

These Jew baiters are complicit in constructing and expanding their vitriol against Israel. A vitriol paved in bigotry, tiled in a gross ignorance of history and painted in politically correct hues.

With the possible exception of Carthage during the Punic Wars, almost 2,500 years ago, no country in recorded history, has ever been threatened with extinction. Israel is the one exception.

But those on the left, like Dave Smith, won’t allow the Jews to defend themselves. While he’s too tactful to call for the abolition of the State of Israel outright, he rejects Israel’s right to self-preservation; a right afforded every other nation. Chipping away at the legitimacy of Israel, he is mute when it comes to suggesting how Israel’s five million Jews should protect themselves from people sworn to their annihilation, be it the Iranians or the denizens of HAMASstan (better known as Gazans).

Mr. Smith justifies his anti-Zionism by reminding us of the infamous 1975 United Nations resolution equating Zionism with racism. He forgets however to note that the U.N. rescinded that offensive resolution.

Leigh,

I'll direct my comments at whomever I choose.

FYI,this is a public forum and if you present unsupported and ad hominem arguments I reserve the right to rubbish said arguments,as they deserve. I have to say I'm amazed at your powers of reading the author's mind.

Mac,

Whatever you say and whatever I say is an OPINION. Our comments did not come down the mount with Moses. Your extremely petulant comments about my posts are only your opinion. I'll bet the old bottom lip was sticking out when you bashed out, "I'll direct my comments at whomever I choose."

As in the chicken ad., if you need to rubbish other peoples' arguments, particularly when they are not the slightest bit interested in what you think, then, "there is something very wrong with you".

The idea is to comment on the article contributed. However, if you wish to "rubbish" me with your own rubbish (it obviously makes you feel tough) be my guest. You clearly need the therapy. Mind you, I don't always look back at previous days, so you might rather get yourself a big stick and belt a cushion with it. They tell me that is good for your problem

Leigh,

A final comment,

"The idea is to comment on the article contributed" Yes,however part of the idea is to criticise other peoples' comments,this is essential to the educational process. Any blog that was restricted to passive comments only would be very boring indeed,stop complaining if your pet opinions are shredded every now and then. Don't try to bully your way out of the corner you painted yourself into,remember,you're the one who started the ad hominem(personal) attacks.

Thank you Father Dave for supporting the truth. God Bless

Writing from the US, what the media and pols all repeat is the erroneous translation of the remark attributed to Ahmadinejad that, "Israel must be wiped off the map."

The Facts are that, "In his October 2005 speech, Mr. Ahmadinejad never used the word "map" or the term "wiped off". According to Farsi-language experts like Juan Cole and even right-wing services like MEMRI, what he actually said was "this regime that is occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time."

"In this speech to an annual anti-Zionist conference, Mr. Ahmadinejad was being prophetic, not threatening. He was citing Imam Khomeini, who said this line in the 1980s (a period when Israel was actually selling arms to Iran, so apparently it was not viewed as so ghastly then).

"Mr. Ahmadinejad had just reminded his audience that the Shah's regime, the Soviet Union, and Saddam Hussein had all seemed enormously powerful and immovable, yet the first two had vanished almost beyond recall and the third now languished in prison. So, too, the "occupying regime" in Jerusalem would someday be gone. His message was, in essence, "This too shall pass."-Virginia Tilley, Professor of political science

This patriotic [meaning I love my country enough to dissent and criticize when my govt. does wrong] American Christian is in solidarity with an END to the Occupation and Equal Human Rights for ALL as the only way to security and peace.

e
http://www.wearewideawake.org/

first thing this morning i heard 70 percent of kids in the latest putche in sri-lanca[re the tamal tigers]have been sepperated in the murderous exodus trying to escape the war front[joined the same re pakistan exodus]noted the silence re palistein,and the pope's non visiting west bank

i recalled the mossad links to the war,911.as well as mossad in georgia..[noted the silence as the blockade of palistein continues]recall the phospherous bombs in west bank..[in short been joining a few dots]

US/Israel Want Genocide in Sri Lanka

Mossad in Sri Lanka
Mossad has caused Sri Lanka’s fighting to become some of the bloodiest in human history.Entire villages are routinely wiped out. Massacres happen almost daily.Over 70,000 people have been killed.

http://www.nowpublic.com/world/world-s-most-dangerous-collaboration
The World’s Most Dangerous Collaboration
By Zaheerul Hassan
December 24, 2008...8:21 pm
http://pakalert.wordpress.com/2008/12/24/the-world-most-dangerous-coll...

http://www.wordofmouthexperiment.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=993&view=pr...
SRI LANKA, MOSSAD and the CIA,DRUGS AND ARMS DEALERS
Sunday, August 14, 2005
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/fakealqaeda.html?q=fakealqaeda.html

This memo justified a war of aggression and all the crimes and abuses of power abroad and at home that were justified by the war
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/dearcormed.php

Who Rules America?
By Paul Craig Roberts
http://informationclearinghouse.info/article22611.htm
http://rawstory.com/08/news/2009/05/15/gop-democratic-leader-inadvertently-expose-israeli-lobbyists-behind-their-letter-to-obama/

http://lataan.blogspot.com/2009/05/how-will-israel-attack-iran.html
http://lataan.blogspot.com/2009/05/israel-now-agrees-to-tell-us-when-it-is.html
http://rawstory.com/news/afp/CIA_chief_in_secret_Israel_talks_on_05142009.html
Lawrence Wilkerson Drops an Iraq-Torture Bombshell
By Bob Fertik
http://informationclearinghouse.info/article22616.htm
http://murdochspropagandists.blogspot.com/
"Ugly" Questions for Gen. Myers
By Ray McGovern
http://informationclearinghouse.info/article22617.htm
http://lataan.blogspot.com/2009/04/israeli-rhetoric-over-iran-becoming.html
So Long Since Dreaming Made Sense.
By Paul A. Moore
http://informationclearinghouse.info/article22613.htm
http://www.prisonplanet.com/israel-ups-war-training-despite-us-discontent.html

Are the people who 'really run the world' meeting this weekend?
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1085589.html
http://www.unobserver.com/index.php?pagina=layout5.php&id=5959&blz=1
http://www.prisonplanet.com/tucker-confirms-geithner-presence-at-bilderberg-meeting.html
http://www.prisonplanet.com/tucker-bilderberg-owns-obama.html
The attacks of 9/11, be they whatever they were,could not have possibly been accomplished without the complicity of the military
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/9-11BasicQuestions.html
Does that mean it is anti-Semitic to criticize Israel?
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-goldberg12-2009may12,0,1363776.story
http://murdochspropagandists.blogspot.com/2009/05/australian-murdoch-islamophobe.html
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1085215.html

Cazza

The UN - a body dominated by the imperialist powers - has a definition of genocide which is applicable here.

The dispossession of the Palestinians, driving them off their land, and then continuing the logic of that process for 61 years, is genocide. The very UN act of dividing the land up was an act of genocide.

The fact the UN did this does not absolve genocide.

The same issue arose in th Bringing Them Home report when Justice Wilson called the stolen generations policy genocide. Why? Because it was under the UN definition.

As to Israel being incompetent at genocide, I would have thought that its actions over the last 61 years, killing many and creating 6 million refugees, gives the lie to that.

And thanks to Eileen Fleming for pointing out the Iranian dictator actually called for the destruction of the Israeli state, not its people. (Much like the ANC called for the destruction of apartheid, not the Boers.)

eileen fleming (who doesn’t think enough of herself to capitalize her initials)

There is nothing erroneous about the “…translation of the remark attributed to Ahmadinejad that, "Israel must be wiped off the map."
The horrible little man has said it often enough for even the most disinterested person to know about it.

Neither I, nor the media, have said that he made the remark on October 2005.

Mac,

Thanks for what you promise will be your final lecture. I am not trying to bully anyone, and I have not painted myself into a corner. You have shown that you clearly do not believe in freedom of speech for anyone but yourself and those you agree with.

I do know what “ad hominem” means, thank you. You and others with a limited vocabulary use it ad nauseum. I won’t imitate your pathetic attempt at insult to explain that one to you.

I don’t feel that my opinions have ever been “shredded”; certainly not by you.

Keep on raving. I don’t intend giving you the satisfaction of responding to you again.

Passy,
Passy, pussy, passé.
P-l-e-a-s-e, when you go home tonight, take down that life-sized poster of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad from your bedroom wall.
Yes, I know, he has almost the same number of letters in his name as Arnold Schwarzenegger, but really, he just doesn’t cut it as a poster boy–and, removing it will probably do wonders for that chronic stomach ache you’ve been blaming on “imperialism!”

Ahmadinejad ‘s speech might have been a little bit– more credible– if he did not represent a country that has had a long ( & continuing) history of genocidial policies towards its minorities – Zoroastrian, Christian and Baha’i! If Mr Ahmadinejad ‘s real concerns were genocide, rather than jostling for top of the sand-pile, he would have been better advised to start with cleaning-up his own backyard.

And as for : “The fact that the only countries to walk out were white colonial or colonial settler states ”
It took me a while to work this one out! “Settler states” – but, the Arab countries DIDN’T walk out – you said so yourself ?

Then it clicked , Ah Har !
You don’t know your middle eastern history!

That’s why you thought “settler states” and Arab states were two distinct categories!
The Arab states are just as much settler states as Israel– or anyone else!

And Pan-Arabism/ Arab Nationalism – however you might like to badge it, is a not too distant cousin to Zionism (as the Turkmen, Assyrians & others living under Arab rule will testify)

It’s just that the Arabs(& their wantabe accepted, Iranian neigbours) are a lot better at the cover-up – a lot, lot better at re-writing history!

Horus

Your comments are typical of the nonsense that passes for debate from Zionists. Actually I supported the left in Iran in 78 and 79, hoping to see the workers' revolution against the Shah not get stolen by the islamists. unfortunately the politics of the nationalist and Stalinist left were not up to the the task.

Actually if you read my blog (En Passant with John Passant) you'll see I have joined a campaign to free the 100 May Day marchers that the dictatorship has detained.

I know my Arab history. Most of these countries are the creation of imperialism. So? That doesn't make them settler states like Australia, South Africa or Israel.

The Iranian ruler's speech at Durban II said nothing remarkable. Even some Israeli historians would agree with it. (I have on my blog a defence of his speech.)

The walkout was by the Western supporters of racist Israel, including the very imperialist nations whose rape and pillage of the globe has created the world of war we live in.

The corrupt (mainly Western supported) dictators in charge in the Middle East at the monument will be swept away by the Arab masses at some stage and then a new vision for Palestine - a rainbow nation - can come more sharply into focus.

Unfortunately you don't want to understand the point. Read the articles on my blog if you want some elucidation, but presumably that will only confirm your fact free analysis.

This is one of the reasons why any sort of peace or compromise in the Middle East will be long delayed - attempts to thwart real debate by using the religious discrimination argument.

It is usually those that are quick to deride Islam (it is also a religion) that will argue anti-semitism when Israel is criticised - it is hypocritical.

If religious victimhood on both sides of this debate continues to be the fallback position, then there will be no progress and the region will always remain crippled - any attempts at a resolution will be impotent. Religious victimhood is inward focussed and while it remains there will be no hope of looking outward or the idea of what 'we' can do better.

Religious victimhood gives the green light to the status quo ie. doing nothing.

eileen fleming,

"vanish from the pages of time"
We don't often see that version of the translation from Zionists, it wouldn't suit their purposes would it?

Passy,

I agree with your comments about the poor quality of the Zionists arguments.However I don't share your optimism in regard to the fate of the Palestinians, unless the Americans develop a conscience, which seems unlikely.

Horus, FYI
the term 'settler state" has a specific meaning,it refers to those nations populated by Europeans during the Age of Imperialism.

Mac& Passy,
Forget your neat little boxes and arbitrary lines-in-the-sand.

“Imperialism” did not start and end with the European nations.
Nor, did the settlement/colonisation of other regions begin and end with the European nations.


The European nations were merely replicating what the Arabs & Turks’ had done in an earlier age.
If anything, European imperialism/colonisation in the middle east, was feeble, when compared to the antics of the Arabs & Turks
Arab & Turkish imperialism & colonisation extinguished many formerly proud and independent cultures and peoples

Horus,

I wasn't denying the fact that Moslems have an appalling record of imperialism, I was merely indicating that the term "settler societies" has a specifc meaning. I'm certainly not an apologist for Islam and I don't disagree with your comments that Moslems invaded and occupied other societies, however they didn't displace the indigenous people on the scale of Europeans in the New World and Australia.

Birobidjan
the original Jewish homeland

http://www.tellingfilms.netne.net/birobidjan.htm
During May 2008 Israelis celebrated the 60th anniversary of their Jewish state,while Palestinians marked six decades of catastrophe or Nakba.

Among all the column inches devoted by the British press to this dual anniversary there was no mention of Birobidjan, the original Jewish homeland, whose 70th anniversary fell in 2004..
http://www.presstv.com/pop/wmp.aspx?id=55153
..regardless of their differing evaluations of the Classical vs Christian pillars of Western civilisation,..
http://www.tellingfilms.netne.net/barnesreviewnote.html
Lady Renouf told viewers that:

European Jewry,..to promote their powerful imposture of a"Promised Land",..demanded their right to pirate Palestine as a Jewish"homeland".

This was the sly euphemism Zionist founding father Max Nordau used instead of State "to deceive by its mildness".

Zionists chose not to acknowledge Birobidjan,..the voluntary Jewish homeland supported by American Jewry since 1928)..of the Jewish Autonomous Region (on the border of Russia and China).

To this day this is a flourishing Jewish homeland - a largely unsung region Lady Renouf makes public on both PRESS TV programmes,which can be viewed by clicking on the programme names
http://www.presstv.com/pop/wmp.aspx?id=55153
http://www.presstv.com/pop/wmp.aspx?id=55971
An extensive photographic history of the Birobidjan project is online at the Swarthmore College website.
http://www.swarthmore.edu/Home/News/biro/
The 1939 booklet about Birobidjan
http://www.archive.org/download/TheJewishAutonomousRegion/JAO2.pdf
by the Jewish author David Bergelson is online here.

http://www.archive.org/download/TheJewishAutonomousRegion/JAO2.pdf
(This is a 12MB PDF file.)

why is this important?
http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2009/04/30/the-lobby-wants-war/
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2009/may/13/aipac-iran-us-obama
http://www.presstv.com/detail.aspx?id=94980&sectionid=351020202
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2009/may/13/aipac-iran-us-obama
http://desertpeace.wordpress.com/2009/05/17/occupied-jerusalem-is-being-suffocated/
http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1085872.html
http://www.alternativenews.org/english/1915-the-us-to-raise-military-aid-to-israel.html
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article6301606.ece
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/interactive/2008/sep/11/israelandthepalestinians
or join together these two pr pieces
http://www.alternet.org/environment/140060/the_case_of_the_missing_h-bomb%3A_the_pentagon_has_lost_the_mother_of_all_weapons/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/5335620/Obama-to-warn-Israels-PM-Benjamin-Netanyahu-No-more-blank-cheques.html
plus this red flag propaganda piece
[prepotory to a black swan event?]
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1242212398670&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
recall sadams smoking gun?[rummy with his drawings?][sad-damms wepons of mass destraction?
it will make a neat destraction while they bed down the co2 tax[also a debait we never had]

Passy

"The dispossession of the Palestinians, driving them off their land, and then continuing the logic of that process for 61 years, is genocide."

If that is your view then I presume you also accuse the Arabs in Iraq, Syria, Yemen, Libya, Egypt, Algeria and Jordan of genocide against the Jews.

If not, why not?

Mac,

There are many things worth critising Israel for - including the illegal settlements, the use of heavy militarism in civilian areas etc. etc. However, such criticism must be made within the context of a nation living in fear for its survival. It is inappropriate to compare the actions of Israel with those of a country such as Australia which faces no such fears. The question is not whether I'd rather be a Jew living in Autralia than a Palestinian living in Israel; it is whether I'd rather be a Palestinian living in Israel than a Jew living in any of its neighbouring countries.

Cazza,

Certainly, "I'd rather be a Palestinian living in Israel than a Jew living in any of its neighbouring countries" and if I were a Christian I'd rather live in Israel as well( the Christian population of Israel is, in fact, increasing). My comment was in reference to the claim of Israel as a the only refuge for Jews, who are supposed to be under threat everywhere. I'm not convinced that Israel is as threatened by the incompetent and backward regimes surrounding it as Israelis claim, you could hardly say the Palestinians are a threat to national survival and they're on the receiving end.

Mac,

I was commenting on colonialism and imperialism as exhibited in the middle east theatre – since the thread was about the middle east.

Western colonialism & imperialism has been widely, and repeatedly, hung-drawn-and-quartered on many different fora.
And I would think that there are very few people, anywhere–east or west, who are unaware of its ‘crimes” – but, I suspect, there are many who would be unaware of the full extent of Arab & Turkish imperialism / colonialism. Which may be why characters like Ahmadinejad can masquerade as a crusaders for justice ---and appear so credible, to some .

There is a popular , if naïve , proposition that imperialism started with the forays of Western powers
&, that imperialism, slavery and racism are endemic to the Western rule .
A second, related, proposition is that all current woes in the middle east emanate from such Western interference .
And a third related (utopian) proposition, that goes , the redrawing of borders , and , the removal of current administrations would be a solution.

None of the above sync with reality :
1) The afflictions of the ME didn’t start with Western interference ( Western interference is not causing the Yemenis or Egyptians to reproduce at a rate that exceeds their capacity to adequately cater for, Western inference didn’t produce the Shia Sunni divide) , &
2) Any number of coups & revolutions over the years have done little to elevate any of the countries involved. What progress there has been has come from economic growth & slow top down reforms.

Blaming Western imperialism & Zionism is more often than not, a smoke screen for other native flaws.

And as heretical as it will seem to some , I see more hope in the reforms being edgily implemented by the Saudi & other ruling classes (grains of wheat in a lot of chaff!).Some of the upper classes are a lot more liberal & realistic than their many “progressive” critics would allow.And some of the reforms’ mooted, when implemented, may initiate wide ranging, if slow, societal change.

Cheers!

Horus,

you might be interested in this link-

http://www.newstatesman.com/middle-east/2009/05/saudi-arabia-essay-house

very few grains of wheat!

is truth criticising israel govt able to be spoken?
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1242212438933&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

IAF holds drill simulating all-out war during the exercise,the scenario included war against Hamas in the South and war against both Hizbullah and Syria in the North...

..saber-rattling..the fallout from these drills in Damascus and Beirut-are completely counterproductive..to any kind of concrete movements toward peace in the region...But with Netanyahu at the helm in Israel,it was precisely what what should have been expected.

Why are US sending BILLIONS to Israel while states go broke?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyiAcC8OL98&feature=PlayList&p=2F1F5D2D31301BC8&index=0

the new government..
http://desertpeace.wordpress.com/2009/05/22/a-misbegotten-government/

to meet the requirements of israelie status quo...It will be utterly unable,..even if willing,to advance Palestinian national interests because it has no sovereignty of its own..and can hardly do anything worthwhile without Israeli approval.

http://www.counterpunch.org/carmichael05302006.html
Zionist collaborators would commit America to an endless cycle of war and terror,repression and suicide bombings ad nauseum and ad infinitum all predicated on Islamophobia.

http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/09/obama%e2%80%99s-zionist-wannabe-veep/
Obama’s Zionist Wannabe Veep
by Robert Weitzel 9/02/2008

http://www.rense.com/general74/isis.htm
Pelosi-Another Israel First Zionist Gatekeeper?
By Amiram Barkat Haaretz.com 11-11-6

http://www.realjewnews.com/?p=318
These men claim they were given a choice of working for the Security Service or face detention and harassment in the UK and overseas.
http://www.arabnews.com/?page=4&section=0&article=122776&d=22&m=5&y=2009&pix=world.jpg&category=World
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/22/nyregion/22plot.html?_r=3&hp

Netanyahu:Jerusalem holy sites will remain Israeli forever
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1087232.html

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu vowed Thursday that all of Jerusalem would always remain under Israeli sovereignty,in comments likely to spark consternation among Palestinians who hope to make the city the capital of a future state..Hitler predicted that his Reich would last a thousand years,too...It was gone after only 12.

Meanwhile

UN/Resolution 127:'recommends'..Israel suspends it's..'no-man's zone'..in Jerusalem"

UN/Resolution 252:'declares invalid'..Israel's acts to unify Jerusalem as Jewish capital".

UN/Resolution 267:'censures'..Israel for administrative acts to change the status of Jerusalem".

UN/Resolution 271:'condemns'..Israel's failure to obey UN resolutions on Jerusalem".

UN/Resolution 298:'deplores'..Israel's changing of the status of Jerusalem".

UN/Resolution 476:'reiterates'..that Israel's claim to Jerusalem are..'null and void'".

UN/Resolution 478:'censures(Israel)in the strongest terms'..for its claim to Jerusalem in its..'Basic Law'

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/WMDlies.html
http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2009/05/22/jewish_agencies_forced_to_downsize/
deceptions
http://revisionistreview.blogspot.com/2009/05/synagogue-bomb-plot-latest-zionist.html
propaganda
http://mantiqaltayr.wordpress.com/2009/05/22/have-you-killed-a-palestinian-today/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/frank-schaeffer/republican-disaster----th_b_205388.html

http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=95524&sectionid=351020202
http://www.wakeupfromyourslumber.blogspot.com/
the fruits of antsemitism?
http://www.prisonplanet.com/media-ignores-real-controversy-behind-torture-photos-they-show-prison-guards-raping-children.html

The war crimes committed by Israel are very real as are the crimes committed by the USA.
It is not the Jewish religion at fault in Israel nor Christianity in the US illegal wars.
The problem in Palestine is the Zionist backed illegal expansion and the uncontrolled growth of outposts.
Just as Hilter foretold his intentions in Mein Kemp the Zionists have broadcast their desire for Greater Israel.
This has nothing to do with antisemitism this about stopping greedy land grabbing.