Suzie, the only way to avoid being critised fairly or unfairly is to say nothing, do nothing.

History shows that the people who bring about change are the ones who do say something, and do something. Mind you they can cop a fair amount of flak.

But mostly it is a storm in a teacup.

Nobody bothers to remember until they think that they can use it against you.

The Forum Rules are given as:

* Keep responses on topic.
* Do not flame.
* Do not "shout" (use capital letters excessively).
* Do not post the same message across multiple threads.
* Do not attempt to circumvent suspensions.
* Observe copyright and defamation laws.

(http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/rules.asp)

If the first two were upheld, most of the worries expressed by the author would be redundant. I appreciate that it requires a fair bit of work to delete posts that contain personal insults, however the payoff would be more productive discussions. The nature of anonymous forums means that some people will be openly obnoxious and post thoroughly irrelevant material if they're allowed to do so by the forum administrators.

Deleting or hindering obnoxious posters for sure won't detract from the open discussion sought after. If a few recalcitrant eggs drop out, so what. They can p1ss right off IMO.

Susan, a timely piece, given the recent events in some other threads. Sadly, opinion is often only valued here if it conforms to the dominant group paradigm. there is a small group of regular posters who go out of their way to shut down any conversation they don't like, often feigning offence to do so. It is common for one of these people to issue an edict to the others that "this one shouldn't be responded to", which is a signal to flood the thread with complaints of offence taken, rather than responding to points raised.

Fractelle's comment :"That there will be stirrers, who cleverly include a valid point within their abuse," is a clear example of this sort of thinking. Instead of responding to and engaging with the valid point (which is often at odds with the preferred view of the "group" and may hence make her uncomfortable), she chooses to respond with great offence to the "abuse", which may be no more than an expostulation such as "rubbish!", thus giving herself a warm inner glow of self-righteousness and maintaining a firmly closed mind. I've even been told by one member of "the group" that to ask questions is bullying!

However, notwithstanding the efforts of "the group", conversation proceeds. Imperfectly and inconclusively, perhaps, but often in interesting directions. Don't be discouraged by the efforts of the would-be Thought Police.

WOW interesting post..[let it all hang out]
cant wait for your second post...lol...

so please [our new ..mr policman]
define flaming?

define responding to topic?

pray tell which of the above responses are obnoxious?

i would reply to your flame

[but will wait till you post a few more times..
to get the flow of your next opinions]..

anyhow welcome to the forum

<<Deleting or hindering..>>interesting turn of phrase<<..obnoxious posters for sure won't detract from the open discussion sought after...>>i figure the thing to do is point them out where and when they ocure

<<If a few recalcitrant eggs drop out,so what...They can p1ss right off IMO...>>..ah but who judges..after you been here a bit longer you will see they soon get sorted out by the other posters..grayham fortuinatly asks both sides to explain.. a rarety in forums you would agree

[still its pretty strong opinion straight out of the gate]what we hate in others we tend to hate in ourselves

[i hate to see anyone 'p1zz off'...]
those i disagree most with ...often have the most to teach me
and allow me to respond..to correct where..[in my opinion]..they err

its only words [only opinion ...after all]
by our words are we revealed or reviled

anyhow cheers eh

how was your first writing experience
of responding to your first olo topic

I'm intrigued in how many of the responses seem to be along the lines of "the net's a tough place, toughen up or stop writing".

The reality part is that the net does have some very rude people posting on it, the aspirational part is that change has to start somewhere and a lot of other realities have been changed by people saying abusive cultures are not OK and we want change.

The article has suggestions about how we could make OLO better. I for one don't just want to hear from authors (and posters) who are tough enough to choose to take part in what is often an abusive environment. I think we miss out on hearing from a lot of good people because some so love dishing out abuse. Sometimes they have some wothwhile things to say but the nastier the post the less often ther is topical value in it.

I don't want the site to be dominated by relentless monitoring and policing by Graham, Susan (and the possy they would need to engage to do so). Rather that we develop a culture amongst the regulars where abusive behaviour is not part of what we do.

I've wondered how much of what we pick up here goes back into our day to day lives, if we are used to responding to faceless people rudely do we begin to get that bit ruder with those around us? If we are constantly ready for the insult do we stay more on edge than we need to be?

On the other hand I have also wondered if I've learned to manage conflict better elsewhere because of the nature of the conflict here - I don't think so but that's a possibility.

R0bert

one under god: "so please [our new ..mr policman] define flaming?"

Why not ask the forum administrator that question, since he wrote the rules? If there were no rules at all on this forum, I wouldn't bother commenting on the matter.

It's obvious when someone is personally attacking someone else, rather than the other person's argument or comment.

I do note however that there's a "recommend this comment for deletion" button below each post.

one under god: "i would reply to your flame"

Why do you consider my post to be a flame? It clearly contained no insults nor any intention of causing offence.

one under god: "what we hate in others we tend to hate in ourselves"

Maybe. But what's that got to do with me? I only wish to see abusive people go away or have their abusive comments thrown out.

one under god: "pray tell which of the above responses are obnoxious?"

Well none of them, of course. Nobody in this thread has personally attacked anyone else or displayed any intention of being insulting. It's a 'clean thread'.